Lithium Batteries

Languid · Newbie

Lithium Batteries

Whenarewethere · Guru

Some of the cheap lithium batteries are using C grade cells, so the battery is not going to be brilliant to start with.

Lead acid batteries have a total life watt/hours. If you add up the total wattage of low depth discharge, compared to high depth discharge. It's about the same total watt hours.

& the battery is not going to fall off a cliff at the end of its total watt hours.

I have 4 small lead acid batteries. Another use for them is jump starting wich I have done for other a number of times, another one a week ago! 1040 amps for 5 seconds, or 360 amps for 5 minutes.

Mostly they run the fridge which is about 15AH per 24 hours.

Scubadoo · Veteran Member

Languid wrote:
... One thing I do know with absolute certainty is that, unlike lead acid batteries which deteriorate if regularly discharged below 85% capacity (yes, even 'deep cycle' batteries will not put up with it forever even though they are designed for deeper discharge cycles), Lithium Batteries deteriorate faster if regularly charged over 85% of their capacity. About once a month or so is good for them, but day to day is not. ...

I much prefer actual RV users experiences to the screeds of theory and workshop or laboratory based data out there.

Our 300Ah 4 cell Sinopoly LiFePO4 battery pack has now survived 11 years of full-time travel spending perhaps 95% of its life above 85% SOC.

According to some of those theorists we must be very, very lucky.

I capacity test the battery at C/10 each November 5.

At the last test in Ah the battery had "deteriorated" from the original 315 to just 299!

Insignificant? It is to us.

When the battery eventually fails either tomorrow or 15 years from now it will simply be replaced with whatever suitable and affordable energy source is available at the time.

Maximum 14.1V from any charge source. 12.2V battery disconnect. Never triggered in daily use.

The battery has also started the 3.9l turbo diesel truck engine a few thousand times. "BMS" circuitry is necessarily external.

Battery daily cost to date if the battery dies tomorrow= 50 cents.

Absolutely insignificant compared to other travelling expenditure.

-- Edited by Scubadoo on Saturday 9th of August 2025 10:37:15 AM

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

The OKA has a 30Ah, 800CCA, 4.5kg, LiFePO4 crank battery. It lives at 14.2V except when not driving when it is at about 13.4V resting.
Cheers,
Peter

Stevejaz · Member

In 5 years of annual travel to escape winter, about 6 months a year on average followed by 2 years of no travel, we have bought 2 new 140ah lead acid batteries every second year, recycling the batteries from motorhome to A Van. Been contemplating Lithium for a while, weight being a big factor. We are just returning from a 1 month short trip to test things out and intend going to Karumba next year.
"Load tested" the by then 5 year old batteries in A Van with electric bike charger and small inverter. Spat the dummy in seconds LOL.
Put in a 120ah Kings Lithium. Old Kings solar regulator is Lithium compatible. Also put in a 40 ( or was that 50?) amp Victron regulator and got a 360Watt Kings Blanket. That thing is the GOAT! Have a 200 Watt which I have never seen produce more than 115 so was sceptical of 360. Thought 250 would be good enough but I've seen it put out 370 (Victron Shunt)
Been watching the batteries in Motorhome and undecided re upgrading them to Lithium or getting one more trip out of them.
Also contemplating what size battery to put in it. The 120ah's will go into existing boxes but like the idea of single 300ah.
Bottom line though is ability to charge and other than several solar panels, we use a generator with built in 30 amp Victron mains chargers. gives a pretty good load of about 800 Watts on a 2.2 Honda and who wants to run a generator for more than a couple of hours?
Bottom line is 120ah in each is probably plenty. Unless of course we want to run large inverters.

One thing I considered important was getting wiring and fusing right. Partner bought me a good crimping tool and loose a finger in a moment's inattention wire cutters and have used good heavy cable. Fuses on everything. I think the biggest fire risk from Lithium in a caravan is inadequate wire size and fuses in case of a short.

My thinking atm is to buy 1 more 120ah and a 25amp DC_DC from Kings and put in A Van initially. Have Redarc DC-DC in both but they are not Lithium compatible A Van charges at a good 10 amps in sun when driving so DC-DC not needed atm.
Bottom line is talk to people who are using Lithium, especially at the sort of size you envisage using. I'm very happy with it and I put Lithium in A Van mainly to check it out. I suggest whatever size you go with, pay particular attention to wiring. I think the biggest danger is discharge rate should things go pear shaped.

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

If you change from AGMs to Lithium, you need to comply with the new AS3001 regulations which include the batteries being sealed from the living area.
Cheers,
Peter

Stevejaz · Member

This may cause more controversy than it solves but I found it helpful.

www.youtube.com/watch

Very hard to find exact specifications as to "sealed". Not a very scientific term. Also specifications as to seal around wires. I still maintain the biggest risk as far as Lithium batteries in caravans is inadequate wire size and fusing.

BBN2 · Member

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
If you change from AGMs to Lithium, you need to comply with the new AS3001 regulations which include the batteries being sealed from the living area.
Cheers,
Peter

This man won't wipe his bottom without checking legislation for an approved way.

He'll respond by saying your insurance will be invalid or you'll be thown into prison for 20 years.

Just ignore him.

Edit:

How Margaret (if she exists) puts up with him is beyond me. Can you imagine:

"I see you're doing the dishes dear; is that washing-up liquid certified under AS68921-2021 for disposal into the waste water system?"

I'm amazed she didn't bury him in the back yard years ago.

-- Edited by BBN2 on Saturday 22nd of November 2025 04:11:02 PM

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

BBN2 (do you have a name?), you can do whatever you choose, but it is not your business to advise others to ignore the rules. That is their choice. You might not be smart enough to work out the implications, but most here are.

https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/driving-and-transport/vehicles/vehicle-standards-and-modifications/campervans-and-motorhomes/light-motorhome-conversion

https://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/assets/files/SBT-Lithium-Safety-Standards-Update-V2.pdf?srsltid=AfmBOopMi8zPm51OXyAqLoaGOVI9s-hhRr0DRmOob37jQ60Ng4NiJb2e

Cheers,

Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Sunday 23rd of November 2025 08:22:13 AM

Dick0 · Guru

Those who retort to humiliating personal comments, in response as opinions, should be immediately banned from this forum. I have noticed it is the more recent members who may feel obliged that they should have the privilege to provide humiliating retorts. It only gets worse once started.

Ineedabiggerboat · Senior Member

debate inaccurate misinterprets manipulate confusion contentious perspective The above words are all used just in the introduction in the second document Peter posted. The whole issue is a dogs breakfast. Oh by the way, in relation to your comments, is there a standard for glass houses?

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

Ineedabiggerboat wrote:
debate inaccurate misinterprets manipulate confusion contentious perspective The above words are all used just in the introduction in the second document Peter posted. The whole issue is a dogs breakfast.

A serious issue that we all face when it comes to these rules is that the official Standards are not available unless you purchase a copy. In addition, they can not be copied and posted by those who have purchased a copy because that breaches the copyright provisions. We are then inclined to seek out other people's interpretations of the intensions of those standards and that means trying to find a path through the biases of the writer.

I don't know any easy solution to this quandary, except to purchase your own copy of the standards (if the job justifies that expense), or get a qualified person to do the work, or take a chance on other people's interpretations.

EDIT: One of the early (and most useful) interpretations I found was this...

Caravanning Queensland Presentation, 9 February 2023, AS/NZS 3001.2 Electrical Installations, Anne Campbell, Compliance Engineer, Caravan Industry Association of Australia.

Unfortunately, I can't find it with a Google search. I do have a copy of it as a PDF, but won't/can't post it here. Maybe someone else can find it somewhere and post a link here?

Cheers,

Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Sunday 23rd of November 2025 12:16:55 PM