It's not the police..

aussie_paul · Guru

It's not the police..

Joda · Senior Member

The Thin blue line.

landy · Guru

True words AP.

Blues Man · Guru

Well said AP.

Craig1 · Guru

Nailed it.

Just reported yesterday " a 14 year old on a video bail hearing. when told he was not getting bail (repeat offender ) he picked up his chair and threw it at the camera and yelled and screamed ! "

Blues Man · Guru

Craig1 wrote:
Nailed it.

Just reported yesterday " a 14 year old on a video bail hearing. when told he was not getting bail (repeat offender ) he picked up his chair and threw it at the camera and yelled and screamed ! "

And that's what a lot of 14 year older do when these days when they don't get their own way.

Dick0 · Guru

Vicpol lost a fair bit of respect during Covid with an overhanded approach to the "LAW".

I believe most of the fines have been retracted or dismissed by the Courts.

Greg 1 · Guru

The police were doing what their political masters demanded of them. Don't blame them for what they did during Covid. It was a situation that Australia had not faced before and governments here did what they thought best to protect the population however misguided that may have been. We are all good in 20/20 hindsight.

JayDee · Guru

Because of new laws, the initial problems starts at home. Parents are not allowed to reprimand their kids. School Teachers are also off limits to deal with badly behaved kids.
So through the education system, the children of today can get away with anything they like.

Back in my school days of the 1940's and 1950's we as kids were educated to respect our teachers and police force but more so show great respect to our elders.
Society has fallen from the great heights of yesteryear to today's level

It is not what it should be.

Jay&Dee

DMaxer · Guru

Where does the law say parents cant reprimand their kids. That is totally untrue. Parents can physically discipline their children. Always have been able to do that. They cant cause physical harm and that has always been the case. Where do you get your knowledge from?

Southern Cruizer · Senior Member

Back in the 60's & 70's, nothing was more embarrassing than the local Sergeant gives you a hefty poke in the guts with his torch, but he never did it when you were alone, it was always in front of their mates so they got a giggle but a stern lesson from it. Saw a few "tough" boys shed a few tears after a poke in the gut, didn't play up again for a long time.

smwhiskey · Senior Member

DMaxer wrote:
Parents can physically discipline their children. Always have been able to do that. They cant cause physical harm and that has always been the case.

And thats the fine line that parents are now forced to tread. Too many people with too little experience and too loud a voice deciding what "harm" to kids is and what isn't.

dogbox · Guru

smwhiskey wrote:

DMaxer wrote:
Parents can physically discipline their children. Always have been able to do that. They cant cause physical harm and that has always been the case.
And thats the fine line that parents are now forced to tread. Too many people with too little experience and too loud a voice deciding what "harm" to kids is and what isn't.

kids who wish to push the limits can basically do as they please with no redress !

should a parent wish to restrict a child/adolescent the child/adolescent only has make a complaint and the child protection people will be all over them like they are some sort of criminal .

as stated to many people with too little experience they all want the easy cases the ones that go into the hard basket they avoid.

DMaxer · Guru

There is no fine line and there never has been.

As to deciding what harm is it is a physical injury diagnosed by a medical practitioner. A charge cannot proceed successfully without a medical report and a doctor prepared to give evidence if the report is challenged. There are no people with "too little experience" involved.

The question as to whether someone has been assaulted is determined by a magistrate or in more serious cases, by a judge and jury. It is a criminal matter.

If a child is thought to be at risk then the matter is determined by a magistrate. Same principle apply, the child welfare people have to prove their case in a court. these are civil matters. The child protection people do not and cannot make unilateral decisions.

The only change in the last few decades has been the right for school teachers to physically punish a child. That is how it should be. It is a job for the parents.

smwhiskey · Senior Member

DMaxer wrote:
There is no fine line and there never has been.
As to deciding what harm is it is a physical injury diagnosed by a medical practitioner. A charge cannot proceed successfully without a medical report and a doctor prepared to give evidence if the report is challenged. There are no people with "too little experience" involved.
The question as to whether someone has been assaulted is determined by a magistrate or in more serious cases, by a judge and jury. It is a criminal matter.
If a child is thought to be at risk then the matter is determined by a magistrate. Same principle apply, the child welfare people have to prove their case in a court. these are civil matters. The child protection people do not and cannot make unilateral decisions.
The only change in the last few decades has been the right for school teachers to physically punish a child. That is how it should be. It is a job for the parents.

That might well be true but who reports it to the authorities in the first place thus providing some unwelcome and unrequired stress and expense for the parent. Some "do-gooder" with zero qualifications who may not have actually seen the incident and has absolutely no idea of the real facts but still reports it like it was an absolute truth.

Now imagine you're the parent when CPS rock up and accuse you of harming your child.

DMaxer · Guru

Yes of course. The errant child, after being reprimanded by dad and given a slap on the bum will stagger down to their local child welfare office and report. Although no injuries are apparent, the employee who has no qualifications will be so outraged he or she reports it to the police. The police with nothing else to do, act on this second hand report and immediately surround the parents house calling for them to come out with their hands up. Yep, happens everyday.

Dick0 · Guru

Do agree AP.

However, tasering a 90 year old frail woman is not a good look in gaining respect.

Neither was the over-reach rather than discretion during Covid.

smwhiskey · Senior Member

DMaxer wrote:
Yes of course. The errant child, after being reprimanded by dad and given a slap on the bum will stagger down to their local child welfare office and report. Although no injuries are apparent, the employee who has no qualifications will be so outraged he or she reports it to the police. The police with nothing else to do, act on this second hand report and immediately surround the parents house calling for them to come out with their hands up. Yep, happens everyday.

Not everyday but it does happen.

I know of a couple of cases. A case where a disciplined child (an obnoxious **** who deserved more than the tap on the arse he got) resulted in a report to the authorities by a well meaning "Karen" who claimed loud enough for most of the store to hear "Thats the woman who was beating her child" and resulted in the poor woman being led from the grocery store by a security guard and 2 cops and another case where serious abuse of a child (determined by some bruises) was reported to CPS without bothering to consult the parents to find out what the truth was. (Kid had been hit by a cricket bat playing backyard cricket with the family and there was more than one video to prove it)

I was present for the first one and know about the 2nd one because we were directly involved in the removal of the kid from the Commercial day care and subsequent placement of the child in a Family Daycare center.

dorian · Guru

Let's not forget this incident:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-19/court-releases-allegations-over-clare-nowland-taser-death/102621086

Prosecutors allege the actions of a NSW Police officer accused of tasering an elderly dementia patient were "a grossly disproportionate response and excessive use of force", according to a statement of alleged police facts.

Great-grandmother Clare Nowland, 95, died in hospital in May one week after she fell and fractured her skull during a confrontation with officers while holding a knife at Yallambee Lodge in Cooma.

Senior Constable Kristian White faces charges of recklessly causing grievous bodily harm, assault occasioning actual bodily harm, and common assault.

According to the court documents, prosecutors will allege he said "Na bugger it" before deploying the taser on May 17, after warning Mrs Nowland four times to stop moving on her walker out of an office.

It's not the police. Yeah, right.

Possum3 · Guru

Ever heard of "Sub Judice".

dogbox · Guru

if you can believe what you hear on the news, in MELB 14 - 16 year olds known to police arrested after car chase released on bail by the legal system ! maybe it is the legal system and the people who run it that needs to be adjusted?

-- Edited by dogbox on Tuesday 2nd of April 2024 09:13:59 AM

Greg 1 · Guru

There are good and bad police. Fortunately these days the good ones usually outnumber the bad ones, but like any organisation there are always going to be those who are just nasty pieces of work. I have met a few police officers who quite frankly I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them with a couple that scare the bejesus out of me, but I also have met and know a good many past and present officers who are decent people doing a very difficult job and doing it well.

Magnarc · Guru

dogbox wrote:
if you can believe what you hear on the news, in MELB 14 - 16 year olds known to police arrested after car chase released on bail by the legal system ! maybe it is the legal system and the people who run it that needs to be adjusted?

-- Edited by dogbox on Tuesday 2nd of April 2024 09:13:59 AM

Bail allowed for the first offence, NO bail for any subsequent ones. These little horrors are running wild and, where do videos of their antics end up? On that scourge of modern day life, social media. The latest episode here in Melbourne sees the little gangsters breaking into a home with a bloody machete and out on bail a couple of hours after they are caught. One would have to ask, where are the parents while these turds are roaming the streets all hours?

Time to get tough with these thugs. Police have to chase them in many cases, putting their own lives and those of innocent folk at risk only to see them walk away with a smile, often to commit the same offences again.

littledick · Senior Member

DMaxer wrote:
Where does the law say parents cant reprimand their kids. That is totally untrue. Parents can physically discipline their children. Always have been able to do that. They cant cause physical harm and that has always been the case. Where do you get your knowledge from?

Please advise on Physical discipline! Kids were advised years ago they can sue their parents! confuse

Dick.

DMaxer · Guru

I imagine the person who supposedly advised the kids they can sue their parents is the same person who told one of the posters on this forum that there is a new law where parents are not allowed to reprimand their kids, Dick.

Firstly a child has no legal standing in a court in civil matters and a guardian ad litem would need to be appointed. If someone is unlawfully assaulted and sustains injury they can sue. If a child is disciplined by getting a smack it is not unlawful provided the physical discipline is not unnecessary and does not cause serious harm.

It has always been that way.

dogbox · Guru

DMaxer wrote:

I imagine the person who supposedly advised the kids they can sue their parents is the same person who told one of the posters on this forum that there is a new law where parents are not allowed to reprimand their kids, Dick.
Firstly a child has no legal standing in a court in civil matters and a guardian ad litem would need to be appointed. If someone is unlawfully assaulted and sustains injury they can sue. If a child is disciplined by getting a smack it is not unlawful provided the physical discipline is not unnecessary and does not cause serious harm.
It has always been that way.

that maybe the way it works from were your sitting but there is a a lot of argy-bargie that goes on before it gets anywhere near a court room and until it gets to court family services (or what ever the wish to call them selves) are a law unto themselves, an answer to no one except the minister

DMaxer · Guru

Unfortunately in most Government departments there are always some self righteous public servants who think they are a law unto themselves. I found that a short epistle dispatched to the State Ombudsmans office considerably shortened them up especially the threat of a compensation order being made as a result of the stress and anxiety they had caused.

AndyCap100 · Senior Member

People now see no relation between having kids and actually being a parent. Its just part of the self entitled generation who see your/our retirement savings as there inheritance years before you die.
Andy

Dick0 · Guru

AndyCap100 wrote:
People now see no relation between having kids and actually being a parent. Its just part of the self entitled generation who see your/our retirement savings as there inheritance years before you die.
Andy

One solution is to spend the inheritance.

rmoor · Senior Member

Noted that in light of recent knife attacks, there is suddenly a wake up call smouldering with the responsibility of parents.
I have been advocating for some time with a "three strikes and your out" or similar policy that parents of recidivist repeat offending kids should be liable for financial compensation to the victims (When/if caught)?

One believes that would soon motivate the ferals that take little responsibility for these teenage demons that are terrorising our society in so many localities.

On one of the morning shows this morning "Effie" was going over house and contents insurance by state.
Far North Queensland averages $6,500 per annum and the N.T. around $4,800!!!!!

The reasons being massive crime rates, theft, arson etc. One does not have to be a rocket scientist to work this out??? Why should householders be penalised for an inability to control crime in those regions?

Why is this anomaly allowed to fester in our society, what happened to crime prevention and punishment? Incarceration for repeat offenders. Get rid of the b@$tard$. Get them out of our faces for a change.

What this is telling me as a relatively recent (12 months) semi retired traveler, don't go to Alice Springs, Townsville or the N.T. as a tourist. Give them a miss until the law enforcers get on top instead of the criminals running the show.