check out the new remote control Jockey Wheel SmartBar rearview170 Cobb Grill Skid Row Recovery Gear Caravan Industry Association of Australia
Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Inverter position


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 194
Date:
Inverter position


We are having sola put in our VW Crafter lwb 35

Where you advise we put a 2000 or 3000 watt inverter, thinking about heat it will make



__________________

VW Campervan LWB 35 2007



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 4706
Date:

I advise you put it somewhere very, very carefully.

A 3000W inverter, at 12V, will require 250A - this is a *significant* amount of current and a major fire risk if not engineered correctly.

I strongly advise you pay someone who knows what they are doing, as opposed to someone who thinks they know what they are doing, to install it for you.

Personally I would not entertain such power from a 12V system - you don't mention system voltage so I am assuming worse case. If I wished to go down that road I would be looking at a 48V system or at worst 24V but never 12V.



__________________

 

"I beseech you in the bowels of Christ think it possible you may be mistaken"

Oliver Cromwell, 3rd August 1650 - in a letter to the General Assembly of the Kirk of Scotland



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 8575
Date:

As Mike said not suitable for Normal 12 v Battery - Would you even have the battery capacity in the VW?

__________________

Possum; AKA:- Ali El-Aziz Mohamed Gundawiathan

Sent from my imperial66 typewriter using carrier pigeon, message sticks and smoke signals.



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7403
Date:

If it is a reputable brand it will have clear mounting instructions. Make sure the fan/s have free flowing air preferably vertically so you also get passive cooling assistance.

 

That it is bolted on properly, you don't want our goat track city roads ripping it off or ripping a section out of the van.

 

Sensibly short wiring & or the correct gauge to keep wiring resistance to a minimum.

 

Ventilation of the space so the local ambient temperature doesn't get out of hand.

 

If in any doubt get someone to do it professionally otherwise it could be a very expensive mistake.



__________________

Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

50L custom fuel rack 6x20W 100/20mppt 4x26Ah gel 28L super insulated fridge TPMS 3 ARB compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L tank aftercooler Air/water OCD cleaning 4 stage car acoustic insulation.



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 194
Date:

We are getting it done professionally I am just wanting to know where which cupboard do you think best


__________________

VW Campervan LWB 35 2007



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 194
Date:

as I said in mt fist communication ""We are having sola put in our VW Crafter lwb 35""

not we are putting it in :)

__________________

VW Campervan LWB 35 2007



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7403
Date:

I have a 3.0kVA (2700 watt) UPS (uninterruptible power supply). Years ago I tried boiling a cup of water with 2200 watt kettle. About 10% of the battery backup was used according to the data.

 

It is a 72 volt setup, but if it was 12 volts it would have 210AH. 

 

It doesn't take long to suck the life out of the batteries even if they are specifically designed for the task.

 

Basically I have 10 minutes to shut down half a dozen computers.



__________________

Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

50L custom fuel rack 6x20W 100/20mppt 4x26Ah gel 28L super insulated fridge TPMS 3 ARB compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L tank aftercooler Air/water OCD cleaning 4 stage car acoustic insulation.



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 4706
Date:

I understood your original post. Your subsequent posts do not incline me to change my previous reply. 

Edit, Let's try and clarify:

If your system is being professionally installed then you should not need to come on to an amateur internet forum and ask where to install a 12V/3kW inverter - *they should tell you where it's going to be installed!*

Stuffing 250A around the place is serious stuff (as an electronics engineer I would not do it in my caravan).

If you are confident in your installers then all is good.



-- Edited by Mike Harding on Thursday 3rd of November 2022 02:30:57 PM

__________________

 

"I beseech you in the bowels of Christ think it possible you may be mistaken"

Oliver Cromwell, 3rd August 1650 - in a letter to the General Assembly of the Kirk of Scotland



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 194
Date:

Please be aware

It is being install by a professional

I just wanted ideas

He will no doubt tell us where it can go I just did not want to heat up the van

This company has 25years experience I am sure he will not set the RV on fire  blankstare



__________________

VW Campervan LWB 35 2007



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7403
Date:

I would use Eaton & not Sola. Eaton or equivalent is far better quality.



__________________

Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

50L custom fuel rack 6x20W 100/20mppt 4x26Ah gel 28L super insulated fridge TPMS 3 ARB compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L tank aftercooler Air/water OCD cleaning 4 stage car acoustic insulation.



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 194
Date:

what is eaton?

 



__________________

VW Campervan LWB 35 2007



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7403
Date:

Same as Sola. Power supplies, inverters etc.

 

My one is 3.0kVA but uses 72 volts instead of 12 volts supply. It also has three 80mm fans for cooling, but it is for enterprise/commercial power supply quality. A bit overkill for a toaster or kettle.

 

Also have a Eaton surge protector.



__________________

Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

50L custom fuel rack 6x20W 100/20mppt 4x26Ah gel 28L super insulated fridge TPMS 3 ARB compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L tank aftercooler Air/water OCD cleaning 4 stage car acoustic insulation.



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7403
Date:

An Eaton 3.0kVA UPS

 

https://www.techbuy.com.au/p/440108/UPS_RACKMOUNT/EATON/9PX3000IRT3UANZ.asp



__________________

Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

50L custom fuel rack 6x20W 100/20mppt 4x26Ah gel 28L super insulated fridge TPMS 3 ARB compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L tank aftercooler Air/water OCD cleaning 4 stage car acoustic insulation.



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 194
Date:

is it used instead of an inverter?

 



__________________

VW Campervan LWB 35 2007



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 194
Date:

what is the price like compared to an inverter and are they cooler to run

We are having 2 x 375w house panels
2 x agm 175 batteries
with 2000 or 3000w inverter


__________________

VW Campervan LWB 35 2007



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7403
Date:

It is an inverter, it just has batteries within the unit. You can add additional batteries. I have a further 2 boxes which gives me 2 options. Either run 2700 watt load for 10 minutes or run one high end computer for up to about 2 hours.

 

In a van you would turn on the inverter to power microwave, kettle or toaster, one at a time. Then turn the inverter off to save battery resources.

 

 

Your original question where to stick 2000 to 3000 watt inverter is a worry.

 

Firstly you really need to work out the largest load. Let's say a microwave (input & not output).

 

Then you buy an inverter for that. Better still look at the loads of all the appliances & where you can buy an appliance with a smaller load.

 

If you were thinking of running a 2200 watt kettle. Simply don't, buy a Birko 750 watt kettle & on top of that only boil the exact quantity of water that is required.

 

Low wattage over a longer period on your batteries effectively gives them a higher capacity.

 

What really happy is that even if your batteries can cope with a very high load. Draining the batteries with a very high load drains them much faster.

 

If you are running a 230 volt fridge but a small dedicated inverter for that & a seperate inverter for the kettle.

 

1905530782675573831~2.jpg



__________________

Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

50L custom fuel rack 6x20W 100/20mppt 4x26Ah gel 28L super insulated fridge TPMS 3 ARB compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L tank aftercooler Air/water OCD cleaning 4 stage car acoustic insulation.



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 194
Date:

would not dream of using an electric kettle gas all the way. we will use a low powered microwave minimal to warm food. coffee pod machine maybe twice a day will use laptop maybe 1 hr tv is 12v but 3 hrs maybe. would like to run a/c but been told impossible so geny will be the go

__________________

VW Campervan LWB 35 2007



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7403
Date:

Coffee pod about 1300watts.

Birko kettle 750 watts.

 

It looks like coffee is your maximum load. So a 1500 watt inverter is big enough.

 

The other thing to do is if you need to make a bigger hot meal or boil more water, do it while you have good solar input. 

You have 750 watts of solar, let's say 70% input you are looking at about 40 amps input. So running a 750 watt kettle (divide watts by 10 & not 12v to allow for inefficiencies) that is 75 amps, less 40 amps input, so a load on the batteries of 35 amps.

Then put the boiling water in a Thermos for the evening. Easy!

Main meal during the day & lighter meal at night. A bit of rearranging will take a huge load of the batteries.

 

It would require a creative solution but  2.5kW split system Daikin or Mitsubishi air conditioners are extremely efficient. About 500 watts input at rated power. If you run it on low it would be down to a few hundreds watts. So used carefully it is doable. Up the solar area a bit & a bit more battery & chuck the generator.

 

With your solar & battery setup I hope you are using a compressor fridge.

 



-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Thursday 3rd of November 2022 09:21:35 PM

__________________

Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

50L custom fuel rack 6x20W 100/20mppt 4x26Ah gel 28L super insulated fridge TPMS 3 ARB compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L tank aftercooler Air/water OCD cleaning 4 stage car acoustic insulation.



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 194
Date:

no electric kettle fridge is 12v atm

__________________

VW Campervan LWB 35 2007



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 5420
Date:

Whenarewethere wrote:

Coffee pod about 1300watts.

Birko kettle 750 watts.

 It looks like coffee is your maximum load. So a 1500 watt inverter is big enough.

 The other thing to do is if you need to make a bigger hot meal or boil more water, do it while you have good solar input. 

You have 750 watts of solar, let's say 70% input you are looking at about 40 amps input. So running a 750 watt kettle (divide watts by 10 & not 12v to allow for inefficiencies) that is 75 amps, less 40 amps input, so a load on the batteries of 35 amps.

Then put the boiling water in a Thermos for the evening. Easy!

Main meal during the day & lighter meal at night. A bit of rearranging will take a huge load of the batteries.

 It would require a creative solution but  2.5kW split system Daikin or Mitsubishi  air conditioners are extremely efficient. About 500 watts input at rated power. If you run it on low it would be down to a few hundreds watts. So used carefully it is doable. Up the solar area a bit & a bit more battery & CHUCK THE GENERATOR.

 With your solar & battery setup I hope you are using a compressor fridge.


 Whilst I have little understanding of the technicalities of Inverters and such, your post Jonathan makes a lot of sense. Following your great recommendation of Birko I purchased one. It is amazing, quickly boiling water but also excellent for cooking both poached and boiled eggs, or heating cans of tinned food.  As you say, Mitsubishi is a great Air Conditioner, particularly the Mitsubishi Heavy Industries models rather than Mitsubishi Electric. With my Solar setup, through 5kw Victron inverter, I am able to run my 2.5kw MHI AC 24/7, which was a life saver when I was working last October on a 500,000 acre station near  Halls Creek with daytime temps in the 40s. Not only can I run the AC when I want, but my van has no gas supply, so I also run microwave, electric frying pan, slow cooker, air fryer, toaster etc as required. Fridge is 12 volt compressor and I have Sat TV. And I have never turned-off the inverter. (Didn't even know that I should!) However, I am unable to heat the van with the MHI so I have installed a Truma Combi Diesel heater that will quickly heat the van to 30 degrees if desired, as well as supplying all my hot water needs. Uses minuscule amounts of diesel so runs 24/7 while I am in areas where overnight temps drop to Zero, or lower, and daytime temps are are in low double-digit figures. Solar is brilliant, but you must remember to "Do it once, do it well". Time waits for no one. Cheers

 



-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 3rd of November 2022 10:47:52 PM

__________________

v



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7403
Date:

The only disadvantage of the Birko kettle is that you have to plug it in. But if you can survive that the kettle is so well made it is ridiculous, no plastic in the kettle as such, we have cooked a few things on it, but it is a commercial kettle so it will survive anything

(I have never actually tried but I knocked up a 1500 watt dimmer for a European cooker decades ago as our 240 volts was just a bit too much heat, just too fast. I will dig it up & post a photo. Then you can have variable heat control).

 

If one can think a bit ahead, just slightly change one's daily routine a bit, you can chuck the generator & gas.

 

We only live out of a car. So no room for gas, we use a metho cooker. We also hand grind coffee beans for really nice coffee. Wouldn't touch preground coffee with a barge pole.

 

IMG_4816_063116.jpg

 

P.S. Just grinding your own beans in the outback is worth the envious looks alone.



__________________

Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

50L custom fuel rack 6x20W 100/20mppt 4x26Ah gel 28L super insulated fridge TPMS 3 ARB compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L tank aftercooler Air/water OCD cleaning 4 stage car acoustic insulation.



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7403
Date:

Make sure the installers stick in Victron gear or similar quality instead of the rubbish gear which often so called professionals install together with under sized cable which will waste battery resources.

 

Are you getting a Bluetooth MPPT solar controller installed.



__________________

Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

50L custom fuel rack 6x20W 100/20mppt 4x26Ah gel 28L super insulated fridge TPMS 3 ARB compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L tank aftercooler Air/water OCD cleaning 4 stage car acoustic insulation.



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 194
Date:

Whenarewethere wrote:

The only disadvantage of the Birko kettle is that you have to plug it in. But if you can survive that the kettle is so well made it is ridiculous, no plastic in the kettle as such, we have cooked a few things on it, but it is a commercial kettle so it will survive anything

(I have never actually tried but I knocked up a 1500 watt dimmer for a European cooker decades ago as our 240 volts was just a bit too much heat, just too fast. I will dig it up & post a photo. Then you can have variable heat control).

 

If one can think a bit ahead, just slightly change one's daily routine a bit, you can chuck the generator & gas.

 

We only live out of a car. So no room for gas, we use a metho cooker. We also hand grind coffee beans for really nice coffee. Wouldn't touch preground coffee with a barge pole.

 

IMG_4816_063116.jpg

 

P.S. Just grinding your own beans in the outback is worth the envious looks alone.


 how do u make yr coffee moka pot?



__________________

VW Campervan LWB 35 2007



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 194
Date:

Whenarewethere wrote:

Make sure the installers stick in Victron gear or similar quality instead of the rubbish gear which often so called professionals install together with under sized cable which will waste battery resources.

 

Are you getting a Bluetooth MPPT solar controller installed.


 yes our guy knows all about heavy cable and yes he put in an Mppt



__________________

VW Campervan LWB 35 2007



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 194
Date:

yobarr wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:

Coffee pod about 1300watts.

Birko kettle 750 watts.

 It looks like coffee is your maximum load. So a 1500 watt inverter is big enough.

 The other thing to do is if you need to make a bigger hot meal or boil more water, do it while you have good solar input. 

You have 750 watts of solar, let's say 70% input you are looking at about 40 amps input. So running a 750 watt kettle (divide watts by 10 & not 12v to allow for inefficiencies) that is 75 amps, less 40 amps input, so a load on the batteries of 35 amps.

Then put the boiling water in a Thermos for the evening. Easy!

Main meal during the day & lighter meal at night. A bit of rearranging will take a huge load of the batteries.

 It would require a creative solution but  2.5kW split system Daikin or Mitsubishi  air conditioners are extremely efficient. About 500 watts input at rated power. If you run it on low it would be down to a few hundreds watts. So used carefully it is doable. Up the solar area a bit & a bit more battery & CHUCK THE GENERATOR.

 With your solar & battery setup I hope you are using a compressor fridge.


 Whilst I have little understanding of the technicalities of Inverters and such, your post Jonathan makes a lot of sense. Following your great recommendation of Birko I purchased one. It is amazing, quickly boiling water but also excellent for cooking both poached and boiled eggs, or heating cans of tinned food.  As you say, Mitsubishi is a great Air Conditioner, particularly the Mitsubishi Heavy Industries models rather than Mitsubishi Electric. With my Solar setup, through 5kw Victron inverter, I am able to run my 2.5kw MHI AC 24/7, which was a life saver when I was working last October on a 500,000 acre station near  Halls Creek with daytime temps in the 40s. Not only can I run the AC when I want, but my van has no gas supply, so I also run microwave, electric frying pan, slow cooker, air fryer, toaster etc as required. Fridge is 12 volt compressor and I have Sat TV. And I have never turned-off the inverter. (Didn't even know that I should!) However, I am unable to heat the van with the MHI so I have installed a Truma Combi Diesel heater that will quickly heat the van to 30 degrees if desired, as well as supplying all my hot water needs. Uses minuscule amounts of diesel so runs 24/7 while I am in areas where overnight temps drop to Zero, or lower, and daytime temps are are in low double-digit figures. Solar is brilliant, but you must remember to "Do it once, do it well". Time waits for no one. Cheers

 



-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 3rd of November 2022 10:47:52 PM


 unfortunetly cant instal split system this is a VW crafter there is no room



__________________

VW Campervan LWB 35 2007



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7403
Date:

maids wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:

The only disadvantage of the Birko kettle is that you have to plug it in. But if you can survive that the kettle is so well made it is ridiculous, no plastic in the kettle as such, we have cooked a few things on it, but it is a commercial kettle so it will survive anything

(I have never actually tried but I knocked up a 1500 watt dimmer for a European cooker decades ago as our 240 volts was just a bit too much heat, just too fast. I will dig it up & post a photo. Then you can have variable heat control).

 

If one can think a bit ahead, just slightly change one's daily routine a bit, you can chuck the generator & gas.

 

We only live out of a car. So no room for gas, we use a metho cooker. We also hand grind coffee beans for really nice coffee. Wouldn't touch preground coffee with a barge pole.

 

IMG_4816_063116.jpg

 

P.S. Just grinding your own beans in the outback is worth the envious looks alone.


 how do u make yr coffee moka pot?


 They operate are too hot.



__________________

Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

50L custom fuel rack 6x20W 100/20mppt 4x26Ah gel 28L super insulated fridge TPMS 3 ARB compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L tank aftercooler Air/water OCD cleaning 4 stage car acoustic insulation.



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 194
Date:

what do you use

__________________

VW Campervan LWB 35 2007



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7403
Date:

Metho stove & a few drops of water to prevent sooting, then in the Aeropress with stainless steel filter.

 

_MG_8122_111656.jpg

 

 



Attachments
__________________

Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

50L custom fuel rack 6x20W 100/20mppt 4x26Ah gel 28L super insulated fridge TPMS 3 ARB compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L tank aftercooler Air/water OCD cleaning 4 stage car acoustic insulation.



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 485
Date:

maids wrote:

We are having sola put in our VW Crafter lwb 35

Where you advise we put a 2000 or 3000 watt inverter, thinking about heat it will make


You need to put the inverter as close to the batteries as possible so as to have the have the cables as short as possible.  Most inverters come with the bare minimum size cables so ppl generally increase the size But the further you move from the batteries then the larger the cables have to be.  If the installation is in a cupboard then put two vents in the cupboard with a fan on one of the vents.

Unless you have easy access to the inverter it is also a good idea to have one with a remote switch so that you can turn it off when not in use as they use power in standby.      

As WAWT said size your inverter based on your largest wattage appliance plus a bit extra.



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 485
Date:

WAWT what make of coffee grinder is that. I bought what was supposedly a good brand and it is useless.

__________________
1 2  >  Last»  | Page of 2  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us
Purchase Grey Nomad bumper stickers Read our daily column, the Nomad News The Grey Nomad's Guidebook