All of SA powered by solar panels

bgt · Guru

RE: All of SA powered by solar panels

dorian · Guru

Everyone has missed the elephant in the room. When thinking about the future of nuclear power, think fusion, not fission. If (when?) that happens, renewables will be obsolete. The only place you will see solar panels will be in those areas where the electricity grid cannot reach, or on caravans.

dabbler · Guru

On the contrary bgt. I'm saying people who claim renewables technology isn't up to par are ignoring the fact that all technology undergoes change. So why the negativity about renewables now ? A real issue with renewables, is by and large our govts are leaving development to private concerns and not using a unified approach to power infrastructure. Nuclear fission, as pointed out by Dorian, is a far better solution but it needs research and research facilities not large scale power plants.

Mamil · Senior Member

bgt wrote:
So one hole in the ground digging out coal plus one coal fired power station is uglier than thousands of solar panel on good farm land and thousands of wind towers on the horizon. Greenies are happy to destroy mother natures beauty so long as it's not in downtown near their coffee shop.

There is none so blind as those who can't see!

bgt, whether you find a wind/solar farm uglier than a power station/mine is really up to you, as I said - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But, in terms of the likelihood of you coming across one, there are 91 coal mines in Australia, 172 power stations (coal and gas), versus 18 solar farms greater than 100MW and 101 wind farms. So, statistically you are more likely to see a coal mine or power station than a wind or solar farm.

But let's get personal about this biggrin how many thousands of ugly wind turbines do you actually see each day to get you so riled up about them? You must have great eyesight, as there's less than 2000 individual turbines on the whole continent.

Personally, I see the oil refinery I posted the picture of above every day, and I walk my dog on the beach in the picture of the power station. I smell their stink when the wind is from the wrong direction, and see the brown cloud of pollution that hangs over the coastline on a still day. I cough up the pollution, and wash it off my car and out of my clothes every weekend. I would love to have an 'ugly' wind or solar farm in their place, but unfortunately they are usually in the middle of nowhere so I'm unlikely to get my wish! And by the way, solar farms cannibalising 'good farmland' is a myth. Why would they pay for expensive farmland when marginalised land is much cheaper? And anyway, since when was acre upon acre of monoculture crop fed by scarce water, chemical fertilisers, and pesticides "mother nature". Take a walk in a windfarm one day and you may be surprised at the amount of nature that thrives there smile

-- Edited by Mamil on Wednesday 4th of November 2020 12:04:03 AM

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Australias hot and plentiful* Northern Territory sunshine could soon be farmed for electricity to power Singapore.

The 15,000ha farm planned for the Barkly region near Tennant Creek would be the worlds biggest solar farm.

The $20 billion project would generate* 1000 jobs in Darwin and another 1000 in Adelaide, South Australia, during construction and 300 jobs on the solar farm.Sun Cable, the Singapore-based company proposing* the farm, is aiming to start building in 2023 and for it to be fully working in 2027.

https://www.kidsnews.com.au/environment/nt-sunshine-could-soon-be-farmed-to-send-electricity-to-power-singapore/news-story/31bdeb85cc37b349a93da250c20f3724

Cheers,

Peter

bgt · Guru

Mamil you're now getting irrational. I was born and bred in Portland Vic. If you had any idea about what you are talking about here's a few reality checks for you.

Portland sits on a peninsular. Cape Grant, Cape Nelson and Cape Bridgwater are about the only break in coastal sand hills between Adelaide and Melbourne with high cliffs. (Short sections around the Great Ocean Road have some smaller cliffs). The area was known for its scenery. Blowholes. Petrified forests. Rookeries. Seal colonies. Aboriginal meeting places. I could go on. But you should get my point. It was a spectacular place where great ocean swells met huge cliffs. Now every direction you look there are wind towers. Drive a few k's east towards Port Fairy to the small village of Yambuk. Just off shore is Lady Julia Percy Island. So protected that no one is allowed to visit. Yes and the coast is covered in wind towers. Drive north from Portland to the Grampians. Oh yes great views of wind towers around Glen Thompson and Branksholm. Now let me drive west. The coastal area of South Australia Around Lake Bonny is a forest of wind towers.
Now just one more thing. Portland was the centre for building the bloody towers and also the blades. Hundreds worked on them. Now those companies have been pushed aside and the ships from China unload the towers and blades in the Port. Where's the logic? Power reliability is no longer reliable. Jobs have gone. Power is now far more expensive. We buy from the country which pollutes the most building the stuff we once made here.

Now I could go on and on. But city folks who never get more than 2 foot from their coffee shops need to get their collective heads out of their butts and see what their 'religion' is doing to the very country that they PRETEND to be protecting.

But most of these folks are so arrogant that they think they know everything while us poor dumb country hicks will just bend over and take it in the name of saving the planet. Well the majority voted last election and the message was that the world doesn't exist for the benefit of coffee sipping know it alls.

Yes I know. Get back in my box.

Rob Driver · Guru

And herein lies the problem,

What a the hell is wrong with successive Australian Governments.

Sun Cable, the Singapore-based company proposing* the farm, is aiming to start building in 2023 and for it to be fully working in 2027.

Very disappointing and this is why our future generations will be forever financially disadvantaged.

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Wednesday 4th of November 2020 11:20:47 AM

dorian · Guru

Wow, 15000ha is 12 x 12 km. That's huge.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Another, planned for the Pilbara to supply local requirements and Indonesia.

A massive $22 billion-plus Australian dollar (AUD) wind and solar farm in the Pilbara and 3000 construction jobs moved closer to reality today with the approval by the Environmental Protection Authority of the Asian Renewable Energy Hub.

Eventually, the Hub will consist of up to 1743 wind turbines and 2000 megawatts of solar panels spread across about 14,000 km2 just inland from Eighty Mile Beach between Port Hedland and Broome.

And the difference between these and coal?

Only about 2% of the area will be cleared.

More than half the Hubs power is now planned for use in the Pilbara to power mines, mineral processing and the anticipated large-scale production of green hydrogen.

https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/2020/05/07/22b-aud-pilbara-wind-and-solar-farm-gets-environmental-tick/#gref

Cheers,

Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Wednesday 4th of November 2020 11:58:20 AM

bgt · Guru

So it's ok for Singapore to 'bulldoze' 15000ha IN AUSTRALIA and tear up god knows what laying a cable to Singapore but here in Australia we can't drill a darn hole to get natural gas out of. Can't increase the height of a dam wall without a commotion that sees the work delayed for years. Everyone jumps up and down like a crippled frog if China buys a farm but it's ok to sell off huge amounts of the NT and WA for someone else benefit. And what odds that there are no sacred land in these areas?

Singapore can s#@$ in our backyard and it's OK. I bet there are no endangers orchids or native frogs in the area.

You lot amaze me with your double standards.

Whenarewethere · Guru

dorian wrote:
Wow, 15000ha is 12 x 12 km. That's huge.

In comparison Sydney's Northern Beaches Silvertails live in an area of 257 km².

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

bgt wrote:
So it's ok for Singapore to 'bulldoze' 15000ha IN AUSTRALIA and tear up god knows what laying a cable to Singapore but here in Australia we can't drill a darn hole to get natural gas out of. Can't increase the height of a dam wall without a commotion that sees the work delayed for years. Everyone jumps up and down like a crippled frog if China buys a farm but it's ok to sell off huge amounts of the NT and WA for someone else benefit. And what odds that there are no sacred land in these areas?

Singapore can s#@$ in our backyard and it's OK. I bet there are no endangers orchids or native frogs in the area.

You lot amaze me with your double standards.

Maybe you could read some information and be a little more educated with your comment?

1. Unlike coal mines, only about 2% of the land would be "cleared" and since it is the Barkley Tableland the 2% is grass (or nothing) anyhow. In 50 years if there is a better power production method, they could easily pick it all up and take it away and the land would be fully recovered very quickly, not remain a gaping scar forever.

2. They are not purchasing the land. They will be leasing it from a local station property.

3. The construction and maintenance would employ many thousands of Australians.

Cheers,

Peter

Rob Driver · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
bgt wrote:
So it's ok for Singapore to 'bulldoze' 15000ha IN AUSTRALIA and tear up god knows what laying a cable to Singapore but here in Australia we can't drill a darn hole to get natural gas out of. Can't increase the height of a dam wall without a commotion that sees the work delayed for years. Everyone jumps up and down like a crippled frog if China buys a farm but it's ok to sell off huge amounts of the NT and WA for someone else benefit. And what odds that there are no sacred land in these areas?

Singapore can s#@$ in our backyard and it's OK. I bet there are no endangers orchids or native frogs in the area.

You lot amaze me with your double standards.

Maybe you could read some information and be a little more educated with your comment?
1. Unlike coal mines, only about 2% of the land would be "cleared" and since it is the Barkley Tableland the 2% is grass (or nothing) anyhow. In 50 years if there is a better power production method, they could easily pick it all up and take it away and the land would be fully recovered very quickly, not remain a gaping scar forever.
2. They are not purchasing the land. They will be leasing it from a local station property.
3. The construction and maintenance would employ many thousands of Australians.
Cheers,
Peter

My view is that bgt is basically correct.

We cant do any infrastructure in this country without a thousand tree huggers, First Nations peoples, and every unemployed hanger on protesting and delaying or preventing any project from going ahead yet the govt can give approval for an overseas company to come in and use our land for their Financial benefit.

We could bet that this Singapore company will eventually end up with the title to the land and be selling their power to the suckers who gave them the opportunity in the first place.

Peter if this project is ok by you then you are definitely displaying double standards from the saddle of your high horse regarding our pristine areas within our nation. Only grass to you is a pristine wilderness to someone else.

Why are we so stupid that if these projects are all ok then why dont we Aussies do the building, development and final distribution to.....dare I say it...the best bidder.

This is how business works. This is how sensible governments develop and progress their countries. These countries that are here in Aus are all a one way street....their way.

I will end it here because as I type I am just getting more angry with what we have given away in this country and worse still, what we have burdened our young with.

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Wednesday 4th of November 2020 02:42:03 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

The bulk of the share holders in mining companies & a lot of primary industries are foreign owned. Even most of the beer is foreign owned.

I have no problem doing thing properly. Just looking at development applications in my area, they just outright lies, IE move the sun for shadow diagrams for a start.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Only grass to you is a pristine wilderness to someone else.

I doubt it. This is often exotic grass for cattle grazing and it is actually low productivity country. Maybe you have not seen it, or maybe you prefer the permanent damage of a coal mine wherever the coal happens to be rather than being able to choose to put it in less productive areas.

055 (41).jpg

I totally support Australian ownership of infrastructure projects (and particularly land ownership), but there is simply not enough finance available in this country.

Cheers,

Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Wednesday 4th of November 2020 03:00:57 PM

bgt · Guru

Rob I think our logic is falling on deaf ears. And ignorance. For Peter to say that "only about 2% of the land will be cleared", shows a very simplistic and ignorant view of what will happen. Peter do they use helicopters to gently lower all the panels in place without disturbing the rest of the land? Will anything grow under the panels or will it become a barren waste land? How will the panels stay in place without numerous amounts of concrete footings. How will that concrete get there? Oh I forgot, by helicopter. And who's going to tell all the native wildlife that their little patch of paradise will now be shaded for most of the day? Besides, think just for a wee minute. Just for once. Why would they want 15000ha if they are only going to use 2% of it? Oh that's right. They are going to cover the area with solar panels so folks in Singapore get electricity. Not Australians but folks in Singapore.

Give me a break and think things through in a logic manner without ideology blinding you to hard facts.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

They are going to cover the area with solar panels so folks in Singapore get electricity. Not Australians but folks in Singapore.

And Darwin. They were "Australians" last time I checked.

Cheers,

Peter

Rob Driver · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
The bulk of the share holders in mining companies & a lot of primary industries are foreign owned. Even most of the beer is foreign owned.
I have no problem doing thing properly. Just looking at development applications in my area, they just outright lies, IE move the sun for shadow diagrams for a start.

They are now mate but years ago they were all Australian owned. Mines, Breweries, Banks, the lot.

Unfortunately greed comes in disguise and tells the population that what they are doing will help everyone.

Regards

Rob

Rob Driver · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Only grass to you is a pristine wilderness to someone else.
I doubt it. This is often exotic grass for cattle grazing and it is actually low productivity country. Maybe you have not seen it, or maybe you prefer the permanent damage of a coal mine wherever the coal happens to be rather than being able to choose to put it in less productive areas.
I totally support Australian ownership of infrastructure projects (and particularly land ownership), but there is simply not enough finance available in this country.
Cheers,
Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Wednesday 4th of November 2020 03:00:57 PM

I cannot see that because there is not enough finance in this country then we should just give our country away and make it even harder for our children to survive when they will be forced to negotiate a living with some foreign country.

The power could be generated from Roxby Downs with the proven infrastructure being built there on land which is already allocated and contains a working mine and is on land similar to the pic above.

No need to tinker with pie in the sky technology.

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Wednesday 4th of November 2020 03:37:20 PM

dabbler · Guru

Ideology has driven most posts here so taking the high ground because you don't think you're driven by ideology and declaring anyone who think differently to you as ignorant is farcical and devalues your own arguments more than it belittles the people with differing views. Our govts are intent on passing the buck on infrastructure esp in favour of export dollars. It means they don't have to fund research programs and don't have fund infrastructure in general. Plus it appeals to sectors of the voting community. If you favour development at any cost, you actually thinking like them although you may not realize. The idea a hole in the ground sucking up low cost power (compared to residential power) is okay because it means jobs and exports but solar farms are bad although it also means jobs and exports is strange to say the least.

Craig1 · Guru

Albury City Council have just told me that my dud solar panel is not recyclable by them. They do have a huge list of stuff that can be recycled, paint, steel, aluminium, glass, tyres, matress etc, but not panels, they go in the landfill.

Whenarewethere · Guru

At least rip off the aluminium!

Rob Driver · Guru

In simple terms,

Singapore does the design and planning with Singapore people.

Singapore negotiates with CHINA to have them build the solar panels. This could be really scary on that deal.

China brings the solar panels into Aus via the Port that we gave them in Darwin.

Singapore engineers and managers supervise and oversee the project. ( They could even be Chinese sourced.)

Australians are then used as labourers to bolt the system together. At this time it would be very unusual for our govt not to send them a truck load of money to help with the project. The use of locals here is to appease the naysayers.

The Australian landowner (If he is actually Australian) makes a squillion, but this doesnt matter as the people of Darwin will pay via their power bills just as they will subsidise Singapore industry power costs.

When I was in Singapore some years ago now, the household power bill was cheaper generally if compared to Aus at the time. As I believed they were using some Australian coal and some coal sourced from other areas.
It is a good business decision on Singapores behalf to come into Aus and build a solar farm so as to cut any opportunity of coal export and own the project so their cost is fixed or at least controlled by them.

Does anyone really think that CHINA wont have a greedy hand in this deal and be on the main list for any other recipient of this power.

Only time will tell, but meanwhile our grandchildren sink further down the scale towards existence in a third world country.

We should all note that any money that goes from our country to support a project for the benefit of another country, originally came from a worker who paid taxes.

Why doesnt Australia get Singapore to build a system to support all of Australia First and then allow them to export power from our country to theirs....dont be silly, that would be too sensible.

By all means support renewable energy if you must but these types of projects go far beyond that under the guise of Aussies being clean and green. Charge them for the right to use our country and our resource.

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Wednesday 4th of November 2020 04:25:18 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
By all means support renewable energy if you must

With a small percentage of the $29 billion fossil fuel subsidies in Australia each year would level the playing field a touch.

bgt · Guru

As a cynic can I ask if a certain former prime minister's son, who is based in Singapore and has huge interests in solar, has his finger prints on this project?

dabbler · Guru

"Our" coal mines, coal powered generation plants and power infrastructure have very high percentages of overseas ownership including Chinese ownership. Renewables ownership by foreign entities is just an extension of the status quo. We will never regain total Australian ownership (and never have anyway) unless we take personal responsibility. Start by shifting any investment (directly or indirectly) you might have to funds and institutions that only invest in Australia. Sure you might take a loss but where do your personal interests really lie ? Then be very vocal with your local MP and when the time comes, with any candidate. Is economic growth at the cost of economic freedom worth it ? If you want to be free from foreign influence or control it clearly isn't. Is growth really necessary ? It's certainly being questioned by both economists from both sides of the fence. The very ideas that our economy needs to grow as much a possible and be independent of others are contradictory.

Craig1 · Guru

Yes When, I did do that, or around 90%. Then had a go at cutting the glass so it might fit in our scungy red bin, but no joy, tried a gentle tap with rubber hammer, still no luck. So this will probably be my one trip to the tip for the year.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
In simple terms,

Singapore negotiates with CHINA to have them build the solar panels. This could be really scary on that deal.

Please do a tiny bit of research. You might get a surprise (or 2)?

If it goes ahead, a new solar panel factory would be built in Darwin, with the panels made there coming to Elliott by the existing railway.

https://www.globalconstructionreview.com/news/australia-backs-plan-worlds-biggest-solar-farm-pow/

Cheers,

Peter

ericmiles · Member

I also decided to install a solar panel at my house.

Sarco Harris · Senior Member

Noting I live in Central Vic, I have solar on my roof (4.8Kw) and I also run evacuated tube solar hot water. This is where I believe that we can make the most difference (and stop our cities having a love affair with Mac Mansions).

While I don't disagree with any comments here in relation to our energy future, except for those advocating more eyesore wind turbines, or those advocating equally horrendous and far more farm land grabbing solar arrays especially when they are are on prime irrigated agricultural land (Shepparton area, particularly but just about anywhere in Vic), nuclear is so obvious for a country like Australia.

Unfortunately politics, interferes with EVERY decision made in the state and federal parliaments of Australia. It does not matter one iota what the issues is, politics stuffs it up. So, so many of our politicians are in it for themselves, and/or their party first and not all for their constituents or Australia as a whole.

Our politicians, it doesn't matter what party, cannot see past the next election and keeping themselves on the gravy train.

It is time we, as voters, forced the/our politicians to firstly look after their State/Australia, secondly their constituents and a very distant last their party and keeping themselves on the gravy train.

Sadly, many may enter politics with all sorts of good intentions, but so very, very often the are quickly corrupted.