I note consumerman has not commented on the thread, sometimes, I think it is up to the original poster to reply and also steer the thread to get the answer he/she was looking for. It could be that this thread was just a set up, but assuming it wasn't, then to get the ball weight all you have to do is use a pair of bathroom scales, I was doing this, the brought one of those fancy tow ball weight measuring thingys, and found a 17kg difference in the weights. Haven't used either method since.
How ever we do have much useful talent and expertise through the members, lets just ease off, and accept that sometimes the messages get sent wrong, or interpreted wrongly. We just bend a little and except that things can't always be perfect, we wouldn't consume so much popcorn!

Yobarr I understand perfectly. Cheers.

Alan

To weigh hitched or unhitched? Is van level or skewed? Does the AGM have any bearing on the ball weight?.That is the question. Is it nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outraged posters or, by closing the IPad, end them? Could this topic have run its course??  (Apologies to Bill Shakespeare)

I'm not surprised the OP has not returned.

His original question regarding ball weight measurement was clearly explained by a number of posters including myself but others have chosen to complicate the issue by introducing unrelated topic and drawing red herrings for the sake of argument. This does not help the OP.

Just to clarify there are only two ways to accurately determine actual ball download...1) Calculate at a weighbridge by weighing the hitched and unhitched van (Tug) or measure it at the coupling. (Measuring at the jockey wheel will not produce an accurate reading).

It is not a complicated issue.

   Actual Text from "Hamlet" Act 3, Scene 1

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.--Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.

It is a soliloquy, which means that the character is letting the audience know his thoughts at that moment in the play. He is talking to himself, and we are hearing his internal dialogue. He is considering suicide upon learning that his uncle has killed his father and has taken his mother as his consort.

I just knew that you all wanted to know this ....  it rounds out the discussion on Tow Ball Weights & everything else.

I think that I will  unsubscribe to this thread or just let it go to its rightful place .. my junk folder.

yobarr wrote:

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Magnarc wrote:

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To weigh hitched or unhitched? Is van level or skewed? Does the AGM have any bearing on the ball weight?.That is the question. Is it nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outraged posters or, by closing the IPad, end them? Could this topic have run its course??  (Apologies to Bill Shakespeare)

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 Hi Phil.......If my memory serves me correctly, "....to take arms against a sea of troubles,and,by opposing,end them.To die,to sleep" completes that verse? It is over 50 years since I learnt Hamlet,so that may not be exactly correct? Cheers

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 Your no Shakespeare mate....but keep trying!

I wonder, relating to the original post and ignoring the irrelevant replies, if the weighbridge operator actually did know his stuff.

He no doubt needs to keep the customers moving to prevent holdups.

I wonder if his plan for towBALL weight is to (a) weigh the car alone with the van connected but not on the scales, then (b) use jockey wheel (off the scale) to raise the van to the point that there is no weight of the van on the car.  In my case, I could see this sweet spot when the towbar shank just starts to lift in the receiver.  At his point the van weight is off the car.

The difference between the 2 weights is towBALL mass.

This method speeds up because one doesnt have to unhook the van, chains, wiring etc then drive on the scales.

To an inexperienced eye, this method could look to be lifting the car when in fact it is just the car raising as the van weight comes off it.

If done carefully this method would give a very accurate reading in minimum time, the possible addition of some chain weight would be negligible.

Just my thoughts outside the square

Neil

Montie as Delta18 has posted would give an ATM weight regardless of how high the van was lifted off the tow ball. The only weight on the scale would be that of the van. The only inaccuracy would be due to the weight of the jockey wheel. If you really want an accurate figure of all weights to do with your setup to do the following when using a weighbridge.

(1) drive front axle of tug onto bridge and record

(2) drive forward until both axles are on plate and record

(3) drive forward until front axle of van is also on plate and record

(4) drive forward until all axles are on the plate and record

(5) drive off bridge and un-hitch van

(6) drive  back onto bridge front axle only and record

(7) drive tug fully onto bridge and record

From these weights you can calculate the following

(a) front, rear axle load and gvm of tug when hitched  and unhitched

(b )tow ball weight and ATM of van as hitched (when unhitched these weights are meaningless with regards law)

(c) front and rear axle weights of van when hitched to aid in adjusting tyre pressures on the van for non load sharing suspensions

It is this simple with little hold up to trucks and others who may also wish to use the weigh bridge and the weight of the jockey wheel stays with where you store it when hitched.

The only inaccuracy is that of the weigh bridge not some irrelevant angle of the van in an ATM weighing.

Alan

Greg that is precisely what I have stated, see point 5.

Alan

ConsumerMan wrote:

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Thanks for all comments. Ill have the rig weighed again as soon as possible and next time ensure the operator allows me to unhitch instead of the jockey wheel acting like a crane trying to lift the rear of my vehicle off the ground.

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 Happy to have been able to help Alan.It would be great if you could let us know the results of the new weighing exercise......could be very interesting,and possibly will help prevent others from being misled? Cheers

ConsumerMan wrote:

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So what does the tow ball mass stamped on the compliance plate mean? In my case the stamp reads 135kg. Is this the minimum or maximum weight allowed on the tow ball? My tow vehicle has a 300Kg TBM rating.

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At tare when the caravan was built the towball weight was x a mount.

my own experience with 2 caravans it was of very little help. the stamped weight on the plate was with in 100kgs when weighed Just after buying second hand.