Santa wrote:

---

Nasty, venomous? think I'm missing something.

---

 Yep, because you are insensitive.

At this particular time of the year it's great to have Santa on our side.  

Freecamping sites are well advertised in wiki camps most people have access to it,theres a lot of grubby people on the road that are not set up for it,and they just make a mess,donation boxes from what I have observed are avoided by most ,so if you have a nice freecamp patronised by grubs and tight arses what would you do 

Swampy42 wrote:

---

Hi everyone and a merry Christmas to you all

i hope this doesn't come across as political, but it now appears that the caravan parks are lobbying their respective councils, with success, to close down the free camping areas, forcing the caravanners to stay at the parks at ridiculous prices. This has started in Rockhampton and in Tasmania. The caravan industry brings in a lot of cash flow to towns. 

Is there anything that us, as a collective group can do to stop this evil behaviour of the caravan parks?

---

Gday...

As others have noted in this long, and long-winded, thread, poor Swampy42 simply posed an oft-asked question that has not only opened up the van park/freebie question, but created more twists and turns that those worms within the can.

Given all the emotive, and opinionated, responses, (always drawn out by discussions on this topic), have been exhausted by others on this thread I guess the very bottom line answer to Swampy's question is - 'not really'.

'Collective' groups can be formed to lobby councils espousing the economic virtues of providing a patch of dirt within the urban confines, or opening up the availability of carparks/rest areas/playgrounds for travellers to sleep overnight at no cost to the traveller. It can, and has been, promoted that these overnight travellers will avail themselves of this free bit of dirt and consequently boost the economic viability of local business by spending money within the community. Indeed, some previous such 'collective groups' have lobbied that travellers will spend as much as $700 per week in the community.

However, even should these 'collective groups' be successful in having council approve the traveller to sleep, at no cost, at one of their carparks/rest areas/playgrounds, others in the community will feel slighted, and/or disadvantaged, and will counter-lobby to have 'free' sleeping at these places curtailed and/or discontinued.

Therein, lies the problem.

Straya is very much a free enterprise country. It is the right of all, whether as individuals or as a 'collective' group, to lobby authorities or others to pursue our cause. This same free enterprise right to lobby is available to business enterprises as well.

No-one has an entitlement, for any reason, for free access to facilities or goods and services. Whether we like it or not, that is how the system works. If one wants to partake of something, or obtain something, one is expected to extend a 'consideration' (fee) for such access. That is our accepted way of life.

One simply needs to understand that, for whatever reason, a community offers a service or facility to the travelling public, that same service or facility is subject to other 'collective groups' (businesses) wanting that facility to be subject to other considerations. When such facilities are provided without compliance to basic council standards that are required to be maintained by private businesses then the 'lobbying' intensifies.

One group who have lobbied strong and hard for many years has been CMCA. They have had considerable success convincing councils and communities to be a 'RV Friendly' town and provide facilities and access to sleeping areas. However, in recent times, even their successes have been eroded. Indeed, CMCA now lobby councils to allow CMCA to lease, or be granted, access to carparks/rest areas for the exclusive use of their members who will be completely self-contained. CMCA are then charging a nominal fee ($10/night at the moment) for their members to use these areas. 

It will be interesting to see how this initiative of CMCA holds over time. Other businesses catering for the general public may find it unacceptable and begin their own lobbying in an attempt to restore the 'balance'.

Cheers - stay well, travel safely and sleep tight - John

Many of these small quiet country towns with a free or donation camp don't need travelers sympathy or for them to put a few miserable bucks into the local economy.

The town might look quiet but its economy could be thriving due to the surrounding agricultural businesses doing extremely well.

Come Saturday nights fire brigade fund raising ball at the local community hall it would be overflowing & things would be really pumping.

We once saw a grey nomad fuming because he had to wait 15 minutes at an Ag supply business while the owner gave a local farmer a rundown on his newly delivered very expensive massive tractor.

Profit on gas bottle fill $3, profit on tractor sale $20,000.

The nomad eventually lost patience, grabbed his empty bottle & swore as he yelled out that him & his wife were ON TOUR, why can't people do things straight away!

He'd just left the towns free camp.

Desert Dweller wrote:

---

Many of these small quiet country towns with a free or donation camp don't need travelers sympathy or for them to put a few miserable bucks into the local economy.

The town might look quiet but its economy could be thriving due to the surrounding agricultural businesses doing extremely well.

 

 

---

 This is pretty much the case in Moonta DD, big area with lots of shade trees, maintained by the local council, and, not a donation tin in sight.

Sadly people still crap under the trees.

I think it's fair to assume that most free campers (lets not include backpackers without self containment), are so due to two reasons- 1/ they cant afford more than one or two nights a week in a CP. And/or 2/ they prefer the environment of the free camp.

However if free campers are like us, we do still attend one to 3 nights in a CP for reasons of- washing clothes/bedding, visit local  cafes,  theatres, markets...basically enjoy what the town has to offer. 

Take Maryborough QLD. We were going to visit for a few hours. Then was learned a Thursday market was in the main street. We paid for 3 days at the parking area in the CBD and visited the botanical gardens across the road.

However, that soaked up a little more of our pension than we'd planned so we used some extra free camps on our way to Bundy. We are self contained and we get angry with the travellers crapping in the bush 5 metres from the boundary left on the surface. That is a major issue.

Often we'll take a garbage bag and collect rubbish as we walk our mini foxy. It comes down to attitude. 

I think the comment about free campers expecting free camps near or in town is a fair one. We should not expect that. If there is no free camp and we decide to keep driving we dont judge that town as anti free camper, we still shop there regardless.

Free campers arent necessarily "tight" and CP regulars aren't necessarily "rich". We are all vanners that have different levels of resources. It would be good if we unite on that basis.

Swampy, I'd not bother with creating a movement to push for more free camps. I think your better bet is to push for low cost camps. One example is the scout camp 14 km west of Bundaberg  with acres of room, a caretaker and reasonable fees. There are many such establishments with facilities that could become a new venture just as showgrounds have developed.

My view.

Tony

Well said and put Tony.

I would have to agree 100%, in particularly your last paragraph, I think many who free camp would be happy with low cost areas. As you said earlier $48(often dearer along the coast) is expensive for a lot of people, especially for what you are getting or want(a liitle power for the night). Sadly the rubbish issue is there for all of us to see, not nice, and not sure how you fix it. Ferals are just that feral, luckily they are a small minority.

Also nice to see a comment that has not put others down.
Its really not that hard is it!

Having a difference of opinion is not the problem , but how one expresses that opinion sometimes is on this forum. This forum is particularly bad, but its only a few.
cheers
Ian

Desert Dweller wrote:Ian

---

 Forums are all about people expressing their opinions. That's what a forum is.

We gave our honest opinion, simple really.

If you don't enjoy people posting their opinions don't subscribe to a forum.

---

 That's right but a personal attack is against any forum rules that you may go to.

 I am not the only one to see that a new member has made an innocent post and been castigated for his question. And I did use the word "venomous" and I stand by it.

 Ok you want venom exhibited to a then 5  post writer writer that starts off wishing you a merry xmas? Then here it is simply by quoting your posts.

And all seemingly approved by the admin, who no doubt would like to welcome new members.

 Ist reply .Blaze said ?"Pisses me off" when people keep winging about councils and cv parks. So the OP is a whinger, realize that no one else has replied but you.

 2nd reply...Clique member 2 chimes in?.Brickies?Well said Blaze. "Lets get this OP"

 3rd reply...Clique member 3 chimes in?.Hewy54     comes for the ride?.. Agree. Well said Blaze.  "Agree lets get this OP"

So the very first three answers to a 5 post new member is that he pisses them off.

More kind words from Desert Dweller ?. And another put down?.Free, free, free that's all we hear these days. Anyone whose travels "rely on everything being for free." C

 Deserrt Dweller keeps at his target with another insult to the OP?. There's a million square kilometers of bush out there, get away from the throng, go camp in it, or are you scared of being attacked by a killer Possum?

So now he is a coward scared of a possum. And just to intimidate with further criticism. you wrote in a pic ?It better be free"

I put it to you that these are not answers that you would like to come your way and are indeed venomous.

Cuppa wrote:

---

32 years ago, escaping from Thatcher's Britain we moved to Australia. It was either just before we left or just after we arrived that I had a conversation with an Aussie friend, the main gist of which has remained with me.

She said It's easier to be poor in Australia than it is in England, because you always have the bush you can spend time in for little or no cost, & she was right, & to a lesser extent than back then still is. 

England has pay kiosks attached to just about anywhere that people would like to go. Camping of any description is far more controlled & costly. 

The problem as I & many others see it, is I think that over the 3 decades I have been an Australian, we all here have lost something precious, something we fled from in the UK. It is epitomised by the economic jargon User Pays. Code for Its ok to accept an increasing gap between the haves & the have nots. It is an ethos which has become so ingrained that many cannot conceive of anything different ......... but we have lost a great deal & it affects how we look at & perceive our fellow campers.

Online traveller/RV/caravan forums, largely populated by people of our age - baby boomer grey nomads often Speak, type & behave as though the entire gamut of camping opportunities , from the humble gravel pit to the Big 4 are only there for them.

In short they make much the same mistake as the Caravan Park profiteers who view the travelling public as little more than mobile bank balances to which they are entitled. 

All too often these changed perceptions on both sides of the argument running through this & any number of other threads, mean that it is the disadvantaged who are hurt the most. The commodification of 'grey nomadism', something most if not all of us have contributed to in some way is the real problem. 

Yes there is still plenty of bush where we (& they* ) can camp but often it is they* who are more in need of town based options with basic facilities, & it is these that many among us argue (as in this thread) that it is reasonable to pay for. This argument removes options from those who need them, & plays into the hands of profiteers without compassion. 

*They = The poor, the homeless, the jobless, the itinerant workers, the mentally ill, the lost,  the women escaping abuse etc etc

All have need for free places to stay in towns they pass through. All Local councils should (& some do) view provision of short term camp spots with water & toilets as their responsibility, no different to the provision of public toilets, street lights or pavements.

How should they be paid for. ..... the same way all their services are paid for. From the rates. Reciprocal agreement between all councils. My council with my rates provides a place for anyone who needs it whilst passing through my area & I should be able to expect the same elsewhere. Some councils are wealthier than others due to higher populations, & could by arrangement subsidise others. Most folk want to travel & stay in rural areas, but come from cities where there is less demand For camp spots. Your city rates can help to provide what you need when travelling bush! 

Remember I am talking about short term basic camps. 1 or 2 nights + toilet & drinking water. If folk want more than that, or longer stays that becomes the province of CP's, motels, hotels etc. 

Idealistic .... yes. But it is a sustainable model achievable with sufficient support. In the meantime there is a great deal of shooting oneself in the foot going on. 

---

 Might I respectfully reply to that post.

I came to Australia in 1974. I flew here unassisted and when I stepped off the plane in Melbourne I had enough money to cover one weeks accommodation in a cheap motel so there was plenty of motivation to find work. I found myself a job and over the past 40 odd years I have paid my taxes and made my contribution. I saw Australia as the land of opportunity, I worked hard and made best use of those opportunities. I never once claimed a cent from the Govt in assistance for anything. Because of the opportunities that Australia offered me I have accumulated some assets over the years and I am grateful to have been offered those opportunities.

Australia owes me nothing, it provided me with a new life for which I am grateful. I don't feel I am entitled to anything.

Thanks everyone for their remarks. To some, they must be careful what they say as they do not know who they are talking to. So let me introduce myself. I am a retired plumber. I had to retire because of PTSD. This was caused from nearly loosing my life in Vietnam, as a rifleman in the infantry. I lost many friends during that war. But thats another story. So go ahead all you baggers, you dont worry nor do you concern me.
Thanks for the good informed info by others, and my question has been answered.
Its been amusing reading..
Regards
Swampy

Swampy42 wrote:

---

Thanks everyone for their remarks. To some, they must be careful what they say as they do not know who they are talking to. So let me introduce myself. I am a retired plumber. I had to retire because of PTSD. This was caused from nearly loosing my life in Vietnam, as a rifleman in the infantry. I lost many friends during that war. But thats another story. So go ahead all you baggers, you dont worry nor do you concern me.
Thanks for the good informed info by others, and my question has been answered.
Its been amusing reading..
Regards
Swampy

-- Edited by Swampy42 on Sunday 23rd of December 2018 07:39:13 PM

---

 Credit to you Swampy and welcome.

Aussie Paul.