The Belmont Bear wrote:

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Interesting that the Op who started this topic hasn't bothered to contribute anything more to the discussion - that meet the definition of a Troll or not ? .

BB

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 Why would I? I posted a link to a news item of interest to Grey Nomads, have never owned a Jeep, nor know anyone that does, so have nothing more to contribute.

Troll? suit yourself, I really don't care, regardless, the thread has certainly created some interest, most of it very civil.

Kebbin wrote:

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Santa posted about a miserable one star Safety rating on the Wrangler Gladiator BB, the rest is simply your paranoia over your choice of vehicle.

I don't mind the look of the Cherokee but the rest are bad reminders of the '80s and you must admit that their parts/customer service is atrocious.

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 Ah yes, guess I'm qualified to comment on looks, the styling of most Jeep models has always appealed to me.

The Belmont Bear wrote:

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Grand Cherokee sales in the US May 2018 - 21,500 units for the month an increase of 3.8 % on last years and approaching sales record figures.

BB

 

 

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 Unsure exactly what relevance this has to sales in Australia.

Hmm, at least some of the rhetoric in here provides a good source of fibre, if not amusement. The article 'selected' by the OP was obviously bound to create division. Been done before 

If anyone wanted to look around with genuine objectivity (on any topic) there are always other articles and stats which provide balance. Such is the case on this topic - but that wouldn't do would it? 

As for buying an old Landcruiser  Doubt we'll be visiting Groote Eylandt anytime soon..

The very thought of a Toyota (or other revered rice burner) breaking down is evidently enough to make some grown men cry. Tragically, the bad news is they DO breakdown, otherwise they wouldn't stockpile spares and recruit Toyota mechanics armed and ready in remote areas.

Time to move on?

rockylizard wrote:

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My neck gets quite sore because of the constant head shaking I end up doing.

Cheers - John

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Ha ha John. Stick with it Mate. 

Aussie Paul. 

Santa wrote:

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rockylizard wrote:

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 Unsure exactly what relevance this has to sales in Australia.  

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Gday...

One needs to read each responding post on a thread to maintain awareness of the reason for responses and the 'direction' some responses head.

BB was responding to mixo's comment that "even Americans won't touch 'them'" hence relevance.

PS - and don't worry Santa. I also put up links for "information" and it attracts comments pro and con ... and ultimately the responses turn to questioning my ulterior motive for the post ... when it was only for interest to members and I failed to see, when posting the link, there was a need for any further comment from me ... or for that matter, anyone else. My neck gets quite sore because of the constant head shaking I end up doing.

Cheers - John

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 Morning John,

Fair enough re relevance.

Not in the least worried about BB's remarks, he does seem to have a cross to bear, no pun intended.

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 Very good Santa I like that one  - I don't really have a cross to bear it's just that the constant ill informed rubbish that these posts generate about Jeeps wears thin after awhile.. enough said the topic for me has been done to death..

BB

2-Smiths wrote:

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 Simple reason for this...MUCH larger sample size!

 

Thing is, what would you rather be in IF the worst happened in the middle of nowhere?

A Toyota or Nissan, where you could probably walk to the nearest dealer and grab a part of the shelf? Or something you need to order parts from O/S for?

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 Gee I didn't know that just a part of a shelf would fix a Toyota. I have just refurbed my Kitchen and I have a few shelfs around. Any Toyota owners want to buy some spares?????

For those unfortunate consumers that find that they have a Lemon here is some advice that might help when negotiating the minefield of having it fixed.

The helpful advice is more in the second half of the vid but there is some interesting comments based on facts collected regarding the types of vehicles that appear Lemons due to statistics.

Anyway have a look....

youtu.be/eGYgIKg27cs

Izabarack wrote:

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boab wrote:

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the only people that bag jeeps seem to come from those that have never owned one 

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 because they have been smart enough to do the research and read articles like the one linked in the OP?

I do wonder why some take a link to information that may be of real and timely interest to someone looking for a tug, as a personal insult.   Calling someone a troll does not change the substantive information contained in the OP link.

Iza

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I seriously doubt any Jeep owner is shallow enough to be personally insulted by this exchange of views. Rather a strange thing to suggest. We may defend the honour of our cars based on our real life experience, different thing altogether. Other than objecting to some of the rhetoric in here, we couldn't care less! We're not about to throw ourselves on burning bushes or dump our cars to buy Toyota's - quite the contrary in fact. However there are a number of claims that need to be taken to task to straighten out the record a bit.

You've suggested that this article may be "providing real and timely interest to someone looking for tug" which IS a very long bow to draw. The only "substantive" information in it relates to nothing more than an issue with the new Wrangler. It doesn't provide any information whatsoever on models that would make suitable caravan TUGS in the Jeep range i.e. Cherokee and Grand Cherokee. The Wrangler is not a model of interest to caravan towers. The rest of the article is a cobbled precis of selective stats, views and contradictions. The inflammatory headline is the real giveaway and should be enough to demonstrate the bias that would follow.

If research into which new car to buy is based on weighted and frankly subjective articles by motoring journo's, you'd be hard pressed to buy any car with complete confidence. These guys frequently disagree and contradict each other on their views, therefore which ones the "smart people" choose to ingest as material in their decision making, is their choice, but it's almost impossible to find consensus. 

There are holes and question marks all over this particular article:

1. Recalls - Weird how recalls are bagged so much. You couldn't name one brand that hasn't had any. I'd sooner have my car recalled as a proactive measure, rather than the manufacturer hide from potential problems, only then reacting when they do cause inconvenience. Jeep will recall cars often for the most minor issues, requiring only 'inspection at the next service'. The company (FCA U.S.) issues recalls on a global basis. ACCC may get the credit for publishing them in Aus. but in reality they are manufacturer driven. For all the general ineptitude of FCA's Australian division, they are bound to act on recalls and have done so. Many cars taken in for recall work haven't actually experienced a problem, but an ounce of prevention being better than a pound of cure ain't a bad thing.

2. Disaffection? - To quote from the article "So, while Jeep booms in other parts of the world and is the engine room of profit centre for the entire FCA empire, Australians are now staying away in droves". Oh dear - let's look at the logic, or lack of it: FCA is doing very nicely globally and is investing hugely in new infrastructure in the U.S. The Jeeps we get here are built in the same factories (predominantly Detroit) and to the same standards as those for the U.S. and the Euro market (and are built RHD, not converted from LHD). Are we to believe that the disaffection claimed to be happening here is due to poorly built cars made especially for us, while the rest of the world shows entirely the opposite trend? Nope. The only negatives Aussies are subjected to in relation to Jeep are A.) A record of poor customer relations at FCA Aus, and B.) Negatively biased publicity peddled by (at least some) motoring journo's. and of course, those who take that publicity at face value.

3. Reporting - In his article Mr Newton quotes negative comments from 4 individual owners (not 40, or 400, but 4). I wonder how much real consumer research took place to establish how many people are happy with their Jeep, whatever the model? Evidently not much. No, he's got 4 disenchanted owners to quote, which in his book is representative of an entire market that (by his own observation) just happens to be out of kilter with rest-of-world. 

SouthernComfort wrote:

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Izabarack wrote:

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boab wrote:

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the only people that bag jeeps seem to come from those that have never owned one 

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 because they have been smart enough to do the research and read articles like the one linked in the OP?

I do wonder why some take a link to information that may be of real and timely interest to someone looking for a tug, as a personal insult.   Calling someone a troll does not change the substantive information contained in the OP link.

Iza

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I seriously doubt any Jeep owner is shallow enough to be personally insulted by this exchange of views. Rather a strange thing to suggest. We may defend the honour of our cars based on our real life experience, different thing altogether. Other than objecting to some of the rhetoric in here, we couldn't care less! We're not about to throw ourselves on burning bushes or dump our cars to buy Toyota's - quite the contrary in fact. However there are a number of claims that need to be taken to task to straighten out the record a bit.

You've suggested that this article may be "providing real and timely interest to someone looking for tug" which IS a very long bow to draw. The only "substantive" information in it relates to nothing more than an issue with the new Wrangler. It doesn't provide any information whatsoever on models that would make suitable caravan TUGS in the Jeep range i.e. Cherokee and Grand Cherokee. The Wrangler is not a model of interest to caravan towers. The rest of the article is a cobbled precis of selective stats, views and contradictions. The inflammatory headline is the real giveaway and should be enough to demonstrate the bias that would follow.

If research into which new car to buy is based on weighted and frankly subjective articles by motoring journo's, you'd be hard pressed to buy any car with complete confidence. These guys frequently disagree and contradict each other on their views, therefore which ones the "smart people" choose to ingest as material in their decision making, is their choice, but it's almost impossible to find consensus. 

There are holes and question marks all over this particular article:

1. Recalls - Weird how recalls are bagged so much. You couldn't name one brand that hasn't had any. I'd sooner have my car recalled as a proactive measure, rather than the manufacturer hide from potential problems, only then reacting when they do cause inconvenience. Jeep will recall cars often for the most minor issues, requiring only 'inspection at the next service'. The company (FCA U.S.) issues recalls on a global basis. ACCC may get the credit for publishing them in Aus. but in reality they are manufacturer driven. For all the general ineptitude of FCA's Australian division, they are bound to act on recalls and have done so. Many cars taken in for recall work haven't actually experienced a problem, but an ounce of prevention being better than a pound of cure ain't a bad thing.

2. Disaffection? - To quote from the article "So, while Jeep booms in other parts of the world and is the engine room of profit centre for the entire FCA empire, Australians are now staying away in droves". Oh dear - let's look at the logic, or lack of it: FCA is doing very nicely globally and is investing hugely in new infrastructure in the U.S. The Jeeps we get here are built in the same factories (predominantly Detroit) and to the same standards as those for the U.S. and the Euro market (and are built RHD, not converted from LHD). Are we to believe that the disaffection claimed to be happening here is due to poorly built cars made especially for us, while the rest of the world shows entirely the opposite trend? Nope. The only negatives Aussies are subjected to in relation to Jeep are A.) A record of poor customer relations at FCA Aus, and B.) Negatively biased publicity peddled by (at least some) motoring journo's. and of course, those who take that publicity at face value.

3. Reporting - In his article Mr Newton quotes negative comments from 4 individual owners (not 40, or 400, but 4). I wonder how much real consumer research took place to establish how many people are happy with their Jeep, whatever the model? Evidently not much. No, he's got 4 disenchanted owners to quote, which in his book is representative of an entire market that (by his own observation) just happens to be out of kilter with rest-of-world. 

-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Monday 10th of December 2018 06:04:45 PM

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A well argued response Tony and your opening comment about Jeep owners is correct I personally didn't feel insulted by the exchange of views in fact I even thought Santa's cartoon was quite clever. I was more annoyed that this particular article was going to provide a platform for the usual anti Jeep tirade while giving nothing useful to anyone trying to make a decision about what tow vehicle to buy.  Anyhow my appologies to Santa for suggesting that he was a troll, going by his responses he no doubt posted the article with good intentions.

BB

HandyWalter wrote:

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2-Smiths wrote:

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 Simple reason for this...MUCH larger sample size!

 

Thing is, what would you rather be in IF the worst happened in the middle of nowhere?

A Toyota or Nissan, where you could probably walk to the nearest dealer and grab a part of the shelf? Or something you need to order parts from O/S for?

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 Gee I didn't know that just a part of a shelf would fix a Toyota. I have just refurbed my Kitchen and I have a few shelfs around. Any Toyota owners want to buy some spares?????

 

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 Thanks for that.

So I missed an "f" in "off".

Typically, I now cannot edit the post, so its stuck there.

For your edification, though, it should have read "off the shelf", rather than "of the shelf".

2-Smiths wrote:

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HandyWalter wrote:

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2-Smiths wrote:

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 Simple reason for this...MUCH larger sample size!

 

Thing is, what would you rather be in IF the worst happened in the middle of nowhere?

A Toyota or Nissan, where you could probably walk to the nearest dealer and grab a part of the shelf? Or something you need to order parts from O/S for?

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 Gee I didn't know that just a part of a shelf would fix a Toyota. I have just refurbed my Kitchen and I have a few shelfs around. Any Toyota owners want to buy some spares?????

 

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 Thanks for that.

 

So I missed an "f" in "off".

 

Typically, I now cannot edit the post, so its stuck there.

 

For your edification, though, it should have read "off the shelf", rather than "of the shelf".

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 I think we all know its a typo and we all make them from time to time but Handy Walter's response was gold. Great humour to be enjoyed for what it is.

Now if you really want to get picky maybe it shoild have read shelves not shelfs...