Food for thought on electric future...

rockylizard · Guru

Food for thought on electric future...

LLD · Guru

There is a trade off no matter what you do. The resources to produce a "green" future are not necessarily that green. Interesting an article a few years ago about which cars were the most environmentally friendly from cradle to grave, the Jeep Wrangle came up as the most environmentally friendly vehicle. The components were all cheap to produce and mostly metal & recyclable. There was very little plastic. The fuel costs over its lifetime were not that that much more than smaller more efficient cars. A top of the range Benz was the most expensive on the environment.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Got the point Rocky.

Me say nuffink!

Cupie · Guru

Love the 'Vehicle to Grid' idea.

Would never have thought of that.

Says something about my lack of 'original thought', perhaps.

(No comment sought, required or expected) LOL

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Sorry Rocky, I'm back.

Been finking about the grid problem. All that is need is to put a 12v Regulator/Charger next to the cars battery Charger, fit a 120w solar panel to roof, fit a Anderson plug to back of car going to battery via 6B+S cable so you can plug into portable panel if parked in shade.

No different to what we do now with our CV.

Instead of the 120w Panel, the car manufacturer can make the roof itself the solar panel.

Gee, i have solved the worlds problem. I think I will go patent my idea.

I feel good about all that now.

LLD · Guru

Cars covered with a PV film (duco) maybe.

Yuglamron · Guru

Surprised when you put Mercedes at the most expensive.

When I worked in Stuttgart in the late Seventies the philosophy was there to make as much of the car as possible recyclable.T hey were second only to Volvo in that regard and were one of the first in the world to go for water based paints to cut down on chemical pollution with paint.

Take the Mercedes "S" class of 2012.

95% can be recycled.

LLD · Guru

The cradle to grave costs took into account everything. The costs of production of the parts, running costs (fuel, servicing), costs of disposal. It was the complexity and the sheer number of parts that put MB at the top even though they did have the best record on recycling non-metal parts. I've been asking Mr Google to find me the article but he won't tell me.

aussie_paul · Guru

LLD wrote:
The cradle to grave costs took into account everything. The costs of production of the parts, running costs (fuel, servicing), costs of disposal. It was the complexity and the sheer number of parts that put MB at the top even though they did have the best record on recycling non-metal parts. I've been asking Mr Google to find me the article but he won't tell me.

Must be taking a nap Leo. biggrin

Aussie Paul. smile

Greg 1 · Guru

If you take cradle to the grave of the current crop of electric cars they are not anywhere near as green as the greenies would have you believe. Whilst the bit in the middle of their life cycle is pretty good, lithium batteries are extremely dirty to produce and dispose of. They are not much greener than an efficient internal combustion engined car in actual fact. Until they get a clean method of manufacture and disposal of the battery packs, all the green hype over electric vehicles is so much b.s. Gives the tree huggers a warm and fuzzy though.

Tony Bev · Guru

I was not aware, (until I read the article), about Uranium and Thorium, being found in close proximity with the rare earth, required for magnets

I would think that eventually the governments would have to do/control the mining
I do not think, that each and every private enterprise mining organisation, would do the right thing
Some (in the past), have been known to grab the profit, and then run away from their responsibilities, by declaring themselves bankrupt

I believe that we will have electric cars in the future

Today they are still in the infancy of being mass produced

When Henry Ford gave us the first mass produced (Tin Lizzie), Model T

It had
No brakes on front wheels
No engine water pump
No engine fuel pump
No starter motor
No windscreen wiper
etc, etc,etc

The breakthrough (if there is one), in the battery department, should hopefully flow through to us Grey Nomads

Tony Bev · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
Sorry Rocky, I'm back.

Been finking about the grid problem. All that is need is to put a 12v Regulator/Charger next to the cars battery Charger, fit a 120w solar panel to roof, fit a Anderson plug to back of car going to battery via 6B+S cable so you can plug into portable panel if parked in shade.

No different to what we do now with our CV.

Instead of the 120w Panel, the car manufacturer can make the roof itself the solar panel.

Gee, i have solved the worlds problem. I think I will go patent my idea.

I feel good about all that now.

A very good idea Doug, but it can not be done

Read a while ago, but did not bookmark the article

There is just not enough room on the vehicle, (opps never thought of a big long RV), for enough solar panels, to put back into the battery, what is being used by the electric motor

The solar cars we see, (Darwin to Adelaide solar race), are mainly very light vehicles

But....

I throw this idea into the ring for discussion

As we now have electric vehicles, with four electric motors, (one on each wheel)

Is it possible to use one motor only, (rear roadside wheel, rear right in Australia), and have generators on the other three wheels

LLD · Guru

Is it possible to use one motor only, (rear roadside wheel, rear right in Australia), and have generators on the other three wheels

In a word, No.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Tony Bev wrote:
Dougwe wrote:
Sorry Rocky, I'm back.

Been finking about the grid problem. All that is need is to put a 12v Regulator/Charger next to the cars battery Charger, fit a 120w solar panel to roof, fit a Anderson plug to back of car going to battery via 6B+S cable so you can plug into portable panel if parked in shade.

No different to what we do now with our CV.

Instead of the 120w Panel, the car manufacturer can make the roof itself the solar panel.

Gee, i have solved the worlds problem. I think I will go patent my idea.

I feel good about all that now.
A very good idea Doug, but it can not be done
Read a while ago, but did not bookmark the article
There is just not enough room on the vehicle, (opps never thought of a big long RV), for enough solar panels, to put back into the battery, what is being used by the electric motor
The solar cars we see, (Darwin to Adelaide solar race), are mainly very light vehicles
But....
I throw this idea into the ring for discussion
As we now have electric vehicles, with four electric motors, (one on each wheel)
Is it possible to use one motor only, (rear roadside wheel, rear right in Australia), and have generators on the other three wheels

It was a bit of

images (1).jpeg

Mate biggrin

LLD · Guru

When Henry Ford gave us the first mass produced (Tin Lizzie), Model T

It had
No brakes on front wheels
No engine water pump
No engine fuel pump
No starter motor
No windscreen wiper

Any colour as long as it's black and the only options were doors and a removable steering wheel (if you couldn't climb in behind the fixed wheel).

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

I am not sure what the relevance of a T-model Ford has in regard to an electric car.

However, the T got about 20mpg (at a blinding 45mph) with a 10gal gas tank = about 200mile (320Km) range ... definitely no where near the range of a horse and buggy - but about the same as these new flash-hooten electric jobbies.

But they sold like hot cakes and set us all off on using these goddam fossil fuels and gaining our complete freedom.

Wonder what the next 50>100 years will bring.

cheers - John

LLD · Guru

I think the Model T was used as being an infant internal combustion car with lots of things missing and comparing it with the infancy of EVs today.

The first cars were all going to be electric until a discarded by-product of distillation (gasoline) was found to work better than batteries in powering cars. Have you seen one in Jay Leno's garage.

rarephotos[1].jpg

Tony Bev · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
Tony Bev wrote:
Dougwe wrote:
Sorry Rocky, I'm back.

Been finking about the grid problem. All that is need is to put a 12v Regulator/Charger next to the cars battery Charger, fit a 120w solar panel to roof, fit a Anderson plug to back of car going to battery via 6B+S cable so you can plug into portable panel if parked in shade.

No different to what we do now with our CV.

Instead of the 120w Panel, the car manufacturer can make the roof itself the solar panel.

Gee, i have solved the worlds problem. I think I will go patent my idea.

I feel good about all that now.
A very good idea Doug, but it can not be done
Read a while ago, but did not bookmark the article
There is just not enough room on the vehicle, (opps never thought of a big long RV), for enough solar panels, to put back into the battery, what is being used by the electric motor
The solar cars we see, (Darwin to Adelaide solar race), are mainly very light vehicles
But....
I throw this idea into the ring for discussion
As we now have electric vehicles, with four electric motors, (one on each wheel)
Is it possible to use one motor only, (rear roadside wheel, rear right in Australia), and have generators on the other three wheels

It was a bit of
Mate

biggrin biggrin biggrin You certainly caught me out on that one Doug biggrin biggrin biggrin

disbelief I have enough egg on my face now, to make a bacon sandwich

Tony Bev · Guru

rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
I am not sure what the relevance of a T-model Ford has in regard to an electric car.
However, the T got about 20mpg (at a blinding 45mph) with a 10gal gas tank = about 200mile (320Km) range ... definitely no where near the range of a horse and buggy - but about the same as these new flash-hooten electric jobbies.
But they sold like hot cakes and set us all off on using these goddam fossil fuels and gaining our complete freedom.
Wonder what the next 50>100 years will bring.
cheers - John

I was comparing what the first mass produced ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) cars had, to what the modern mass produced cars now have, John

Although we have had EV's (Electric Cars), for some years now, we have only very recently been mass producing them
I am led to believe that more motor car manufactures, are now looking closely at mass producing EV's

I am unable to guess, if they are just doing it to keep up with others, so as not to be left behind, or if they think that a breakthrough is in the pipeline

Not sure if this new battery, in the article below, is one of the reasons for the increase interest

The fluoride-ion battery seems to work in the laboratory, and is supposed to give increase range etc

https://tiresandparts.net/news/parts/honda-makes-breakthrough-in-new-battery-technology/

Craig1 · Guru

But, what about all the dirty diesel generators ' on standbye " for this summer. To power the grid when the sun dont shine or the wind dont blow, or when the decommissioned dirty coal power stations are no longer available. just today 80 year olds disconnected from the grid in suburban Melbourne.