Free or freedom camping

woolman · Guru

RE: Free or freedom camping

Colin Penrose · Senior Member

I did try the Free and cheap camping with its 16,000 + members and was told it is not in our rules. I did think to follow it up but as others say what is the point If it isnt part of Free and cheap camping then I dont know where to look. I think it is a cop out and a very weak excuse. Col

Dickodownunder · Guru

Colin Penrose wrote:
I did try the Free and cheap camping with its 16,000 + members and was told it is not in our rules. I did think to follow it up but as others say what is the point If it isnt part of Free and cheap camping then I dont know where to look. I think it is a cop out and a very weak excuse. Col

I am a budget member of that site and it appears that it is more of a front for a shop and to sell a monthly subscription which claims to provide discounts on goods for paid up members.

I found it interesting that I did a search on their free camp map for free camps in Norh Qld with very few results north of Rockhampton.

The use of the word FREE is an attractant more than a policy in my opinion.

Kebbin · Guru

Threatening towns with boycotts is a selfish way to go about things. You blame Councils when its not there fault ( Rocky) My local Council had two free camps one 48hr the other 7 days I believe, both were closed after issues with the self righteous few leaving their toilet tissue along with faeces for the unsuspecting child or dog to enjoy. Toilets were to far away for these despicable few.

You blame and boycott Caravan Parks because they are to dear and we don't need the bells and whistles, I agree with the unwanted bells and whistles, but Caravan Parks provide what some want and need, they also have huge expenses, rates, insurances, employees, utilities and family. But then yosseu don't seem to ever mention low cost camps such as camping reserves and NP's, so my conclusion is that you are cheapskates/freeloaders.

You plan you travels around rest areas and free camps, you blame everyone else for the putrid toilet tissues floating around some free camps with faeces lying nearby, It's never you the self righteous free camper always someone else. Until these problems are sorted there will be no consensus.

griffo and kezz · Veteran Member

blankstare

-- Edited by griffo and kezz on Tuesday 27th of November 2018 12:02:54 PM

Cupie · Guru

montie wrote:
I am all in favour of low cost camping wherever possible, however nothing is "free". Rates and taxes have to be paid, insurance maintained and in urban areas very strict compliancing regulations must be met as was demonstrated recently at Kershaw Gardens. RCC wanted to offer a "free" camping facility there, however they were simply not meeting their own compliancing regulations that they were imposing on other ratepayers.
It is my opinion that "free camping" days in urban city areas are numbered. Even without compliancing, the ratepayers still must fund the maintenance of such a facility, plus you simply cannot have one set of rules for the Council and another set for business operators who are paying many $000's of dollars in rates,taxes,insurance and compliancing.
I think the promotion of low cost camping in rural areas, where compliancing is not as strict, would be far more productive for any lobby group. Lobbying city councils for free camping, going forward, I fear will fall on deaf ears.
It will now be interesting to see if RCC will spend the $000's of dollars required to make Kershaw Gardens comply.

In today's society, there are strong forces pushing against the range of regulations that were developed over generations to 'protect' us. Just look at the Taxi industry.

I wonder how long it will be before some enterprising individual comes up with a low cost model that will sweep aside the powerful Caravan Park Operators.

I must disclose that I am really on the sidelines on this one, only once in 20yrs of caravanning, having used a 'free camp'. (An overnighter on the waterhole at Kynuna in 2000) But the van is now set up for off grid. so who knows what the future holds for us.

montie · Guru

Cupie wrote:
montie wrote:
I am all in favour of low cost camping wherever possible, however nothing is "free". Rates and taxes have to be paid, insurance maintained and in urban areas very strict compliancing regulations must be met as was demonstrated recently at Kershaw Gardens. RCC wanted to offer a "free" camping facility there, however they were simply not meeting their own compliancing regulations that they were imposing on other ratepayers.
It is my opinion that "free camping" days in urban city areas are numbered. Even without compliancing, the ratepayers still must fund the maintenance of such a facility, plus you simply cannot have one set of rules for the Council and another set for business operators who are paying many $000's of dollars in rates,taxes,insurance and compliancing.
I think the promotion of low cost camping in rural areas, where compliancing is not as strict, would be far more productive for any lobby group. Lobbying city councils for free camping, going forward, I fear will fall on deaf ears.
It will now be interesting to see if RCC will spend the $000's of dollars required to make Kershaw Gardens comply.
In today's society, there are strong forces pushing against the range of regulations that were developed over generations to 'protect' us. Just look at the Taxi industry.

I wonder how long it will be before some enterprising individual comes up with a low cost model that will sweep aside the powerful Caravan Park Operators.

I must disclose that I am really on the sidelines on this one, only once in 20yrs of caravanning, having used a 'free camp'. (An overnighter on the waterhole at Kynuna in 2000) But the van is now set up for off grid. so who knows what the future holds for us.

In urban areas I think toilet facilities, water, waste collection and of course appropriate insurance cover would be the bare acceptable minimum.
Obviously any environmental impact would also be a factor.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

My Collie and aluminium teepee are set up to go fully 'off grid'. That said I use road side stops, Freedom camps, donation camps, low cost camps and caravan parks. It all depends on where I am or are going and what my plan, if any, I have in place. I do try to find low cost caravan parks as much as possible and stay out of big towns if at all possible. I spend money at most places and some places more than others. I have only yesterday spent money near where I am as we speak getting the Collie serviced and not at Holden, so a smaller business got the $$$ instead.

Tony Bev · Guru

At times I travel solo, and I do not use caravan parks, because like many others on this forum, I have no need for them, as I am self contained
When I travel with the wife, she likes to go into a caravan park, about once a fortnight
I suppose that I could be called, a fortnightly fence sitter, on this topic

I have just read this little piece from Southern Cross University, it tries to show all sides of the argument

Below is the link 395 pages, so "no" I did not read every single word

https://epubs.scu.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1568&context=theses

I am concerned about Rockhampton, being the thin edge of the wedge, and us Grey Nomads, loosing free camps in other towns
I can see how the lawyers, have found a legal loophole, and hold no malice against the Rockhampton council, who in my opinion, tried to fight them
Unfortunately if/when I am in that area, I shall nor spend, or use a caravan park, as my money would be more beneficial in a smaller town, and it may help to keep a free camp open

I believe that it will be somewhere between, hard to impossible, to convince a council in a built up urban area, about the benefits of a free camp, in their town
I say this because, the shopkeeper will probably not be able to distinguish a local, from a traveller

I believe that it could be quite easy, to convince a small rural town council, of the benefits of a free camp in/near their town
The shopkeepers of the small towns, probably know their local customers
They will then see the extra influx, of customers, if we do the right thing by them

Once again I hope that I am not preaching to the choir here, but (in my opinion), it does need to be said

If we use a free camp, without spending money in the local town, there is no incentive for the locals to keep the free camp open
If we use a donation camp, without donating, then once again, there will be no incentive for the locals to keep that donation camp open
If we do not attempt to clean up the camp, then we shall all be tarred with the same brush, as being irresponsible travellers, who do not deserve a free camp

My outlook is quite simple, I want the free/donation/low cost camps to stay
I spend money in the nearest town, (sometimes it is not a lot), but every little bit helps
I pick up the rubbish, in the camps I stay in overnight, hopefully the local people may realise, that someone appreciated their free camp

rockylizard · Guru

Tony Bev wrote:
SNIP~~~ Once again I hope that I am not preaching to the choir here, but (in my opinion), it does need to be said
If we use a free camp, without spending money in the local town, there is no incentive for the locals to keep the free camp open
If we use a donation camp, without donating, then once again, there will be no incentive for the locals to keep that donation camp open
If we do not attempt to clean up the camp, then we shall all be tarred with the same brush, as being irresponsible travellers, who do not deserve a free camp
My outlook is quite simple, I want the free/donation/low cost camps to stay
I spend money in the nearest town, (sometimes it is not a lot), but every little bit helps
I pick up the rubbish, in the camps I stay in overnight, hopefully the local people may realise, that someone appreciated their free camp.

Gday...

An excellent precis of the discussion, Tony.

What you say is the sensible way to influence the creation/retention of places to spend a night at either no or low cost near to or within communities.

It is far more productive that browbeating communities/councils into providing something that, as experience has show them, will not be appreciated by many of the travelling public.

One catches more flies with honey then vinegar.

Jest sayin' hmm

Cheers - John

Cupie · Guru

Tony Bev wrote:

I have just read this little piece from Southern Cross University, it tries to show all sides of the argument

Below is the link 395 pages, so "no" I did not read every single word

https://epubs.scu.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1568&context=theses

..............................................................................................

Thanks for the link. I have downloaded it and after I finish my current reading I will give it my attention.
I just love this sort of thing. It takes me back to my worklife, some 20 years ago, when it was the almost daily grist for the mill.
Unfortunately I have lost my speed reading skills & my cognitave ability is much declined, so these days I slowly struggle through & have to constantly go back to check on points that have seeped out of my 'memory'. In the past I could skim through , get the gist of the argument & even recall the pages where salient points appeared.

Thanks again ... G

Colin Penrose · Senior Member

Hi. I tried to send you a message but dont know if it got through ?!? If you wish to contact me away from this forum my email is rosewoodcottage@iinet.net.au Cheers. Col

Colin Penrose · Senior Member

My last message was to madaboutled. Cheers

brickies · Guru

We can't blame the local council and caravan park owners most complaints come from local who don't want camping in built up areas , Someone put in an application to built and the local took up a petitoin to stop the caravan park going ahead the council knock back the application .

montie · Guru

brickies wrote:
We can't blame the local council and caravan park owners most complaints come from local who don't want camping in built up areas , Someone put in an application to built and the local took up a petitoin to stop the caravan park going ahead the council knock back the application .

I think local residents in built up areas would object to any camping area that did not have the appropriate facilities such as toilets, rubbish collection and proper supervision.

Cupie · Guru

cupie

Dickodownunder · Guru

Free or freedom camping

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Very true, Dickodownunder.

However, in the case of Kershaw Gardens, the Rockhampton council provided absolutely no amenities for the traveller and indeed had not done the required "planning and development" processes - which the van parks etc picked up on and won their case on.

Kershaw Gardens could open again should the council decide to apply for the proper planning and development approvals. However, whilst that will appease the court ruling, the van parks etc will continue to push for closure, in this instance.

It is because they are concerned that council has two rules ... one for itself and one for businesses eg van parks. I think Rockhampton council have burnt any chance they had for "consultation".

Overall, it is obvious, and has been building for some time, that vacant land/rest areas/car parks within urban areas with the misnomer of 'camping spots' within urban areas will continue to be an endangered species.

CMCA are using their influence to have 'member only' (fully self-contained members) parking areas provided by councils. Although I think in some instances CMCA are either buying or leasing these plots of land. I also understand those places are being put through the proper planning, development and consultation processes to get them accepted and instituted.

Me .... I will stay in the small towns that want me and my money, and if I really HAVE to be in the larger cities, then I will stay in a van park. It is not the cost that determines where I stay, but rather the environment for what I want, or need, to do.

Cheers - John

aussie_paul · Guru

Cupie wrote:
Hell, we even grumble if too many cars are parked in our street & we look askance at the neighbour who lets the garden get overgrown or fails to regularly mow the grass.

==============================================

Thanks Cupie, my todays new word. biggrin

Aussie Paul. smile

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Putting pressure on some of the smaller councils by using boycots may or may not have an effect but it certainly wouldn't do much in this area. I live on the eastern side of Lake Macquarie a city of 192,000 + people and home to Australia's largest coastal lake. There are already 4 caravan parks, low cost showground camping and heaps of reserves providing free BBQs and toilet facilities for both residents and day trippers. According to the governments tourism figures just under 1,000,000 visitor nights are spent here each year (that's not counting Newcastle) so I'm afraid that the threat by a relatively small % of 'freedom campers' to boycot the area would probably only fall on deaf ears. Personally as a rate payer I don't mind if someone happens to find themself a nice quiet reserve or even a beach side carpark to rest up for the night just as long as they leave the place as they found it..

I think as John suggested that in most of the larger cities and towns a CP is probably your best option anyhow.

Cheers

BB

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

We have spent 18 months touring Europe in a motorhome and in a majority of countries (but not all) the attitudes to this subject are QUITE different from those here, despite the pressures of population and the number of people on the road.
In Turkey (for example) there was a statement on the government issued tourist map that said "You may consider the whole of Turkey as your camp ground". What a wonderful, welcoming attitude. In 10 weeks in Turkey, we used commercial camping areas for about 4 or 5 nights and they were all under $10 per night. All the other camping areas we used were free.
Here is just one example. We spent 4 nights here catching up with the laundry and simply "vegging out". The local farmers came past and chatted and another local sold us fish from the lake.

Another example.

Norway is a very expensive country, but their attitude to free camping is also very liberal. Essentially if it is legal to park somewhere, you can also camp there. We wanted to spent a night in this pretty town so we could sample the local seafood and enquired at the information centre for a place to camp. They informed us that there were parking places along some of the wharfs where there was a fee from 9am until 5pm. After 5pm it was free and we could spend the night.

This pic was taken from alongside the parked motorhome. There was plenty of choice of spots.

Of course, it has to be noted that none of these "camping" places provide ANY facilities of any kind and it is also assumed (and it is true in practice) that ALL RVs are completely self contained (including having fixed grey water tanks and toilets on board).

Other countries?

France has thousands of "aires", the vast majority of which are provided by local villages and are totally free and a few are "low cost" (under $10 per night and payment is via "pay and display"machines). Almost ALL aires also provide a dump point and water, sometimes free and sometimes for a nominal fee.

Germany is similar to France, but the proportion of "low cost" ones is higher. We once spent a night in a university car park. There were several larger parking spots to accommodate motorhomes and there was a free dump point and water provided in one corner.

In Poland we spent a night at the rear of an RV accessories shop. They had half a dozen spots for the purpose, a free dump point and free showers during business hours. Different attitudes prevail. We bought a few bits for the OKA while we were there. Otherwise there was plenty of "free" camping along the way.

No "free" camping in Denmark, but there were lots and lots of farm stays and the like that cost under $10 per night.

England is a pain in the butt - worse than Australia, but Scotland & Ireland are great for free camping, but finding spots takes a bit longer though, sometimes..

No "free" camping in Croatia (they claim it is still dangerous because of land mines) but the commercial camps are very reasonable and it is OK to "camp" in any designated parking area. There is no discrimination anywhere in Europe between "camping" and "parking". They are one in the same.

The discussions that are happening here simply don't happen in most of Europe and it is a pleasure to tour there.

Cheers,

Peter

Mamil · Senior Member

Peter, your description of camping in Europe, but mostly the photos, has quite whetted my appetite for travelling over there. I'm quite new to this forum, so apologies if you've covered it before, but did you ship your van over there, hire one, buy one? Thanks.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

I try to take note of how many are at these spots . If its obviously over crowded we move on . We are fully sealed gray water also . Its often the amount that effects the locals . Some prompting to be caravan freindly town is fine . With dump points etc . Much better than free dumping ! The back packers often stuff things for grey nomads .Toiletry side of things . Wow !!

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Mamil wrote:
Peter, your description of camping in Europe, but mostly the photos, has quite whetted my appetite for travelling over there. I'm quite new to this forum, so apologies if you've covered it before, but did you ship your van over there, hire one, buy one? Thanks.

We used a German registered vehicle, with the assistance of friends who live there. We had 6 months there each year for 3 years. It was not long enough and we never managed to get to Spain, Portugal, Morocco, Italy (except for a bit in the NW), Greece (except for a bit in the NW), Romania and others and just drove through many others like Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Slovenia & Bulgaria.

It is nothing like as expensive as you may imagine if you don't need to pay for any caravan parks along the way, but you can NOT do this in a caravan and free camp, because many free camps simply do not accommodate them.

Many spots we spent a night in were not as "romantic" as the earlier pcs and we were sometimes parked very close to many others, but that was sometimes necessary in order to visit a popular ancient village.

This one in France was free. There was a charge for water, the dump point and power (if required). It was right next door to a caravan park (only separated by a fence) where the starting price was $20/night (quite cheap), plus power etc, but caravan parks were quite rare by comparison to free spots for motorhomes.

In Australia we avoid big towns but in Europe we could often find free camp spots, even the middle of quite large cities.

Cheers,

Peter

Radar · Guru

Hi P & M.

We are presently staying at our sons home Innsbruck Austria for next couple of months and not far from our home base about 1 kilometer from the Old Town on the River Inn I noticed these signs.

So parking a motorhome just anywhere is not always possible and must be aware of local restrictions.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

dar wrote:
So parking a motorhome just anywhere is not always possible and must be aware of local restrictions.

Of course.

In fact Austria is one of the very few countries in Europe that does not allow free camping.

Cheers,

Peter