ATM

raiman · Newbie

ATM

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Welcome to the gang Rainman, enjoy here and out in the playground.

Gee mate, ya must be around the Young NSW area as raining quite heavy here today and looks set in for the day. The farmers will be happy campers for sure, well happy farmers anyway. They need it too.

Now, your weight problem. You are not alone there, a lot of people are getting caught short of spare weight and finding themselves over weight, well not them but their rigs. I had the problem last year so decided to just go through every cupboard and drawer etc and get rid of 'stuff' I thought I could do without. I needed to shed 100kg. I weighed everything as I chucked it then totalled it all up and ended up 60kg under the ATM of the aluminium teepee. The Collie has always and still is well under it's max's all round.

Oh! I don't miss anything I chucked out either. Due to the Collie having spare weight I try and put heavy stuff in that.

A good culling will take place annually.

Keep Safe on the roads and out there.

Edit.....ooops, I didn't read your forum name properly did I, sorry Raiman. Uncle Al must have got up before me today. That or I need to go to Specsavers.

-- Edited by Dougwe on Wednesday 7th of November 2018 11:25:13 AM

Bill B · Guru

raiman wrote:

I am pretty sure I don't 400kg fo gear in there so wtf!<

Have you allowed for water at 1 kg a litre.(usually 180 - 190 kgs) , water in HWS (23 ltrs usually) & gas in gas bottles.

You can see how weight mounts up quickly

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

raiman,
Hi & welcome to the forum (including the weights & measures dept)! You'll get some good advice here that could save your hard earned $$ & headaches when something goes pear-shaped!

Your weight problem - tell me all about it! The selling dealer said "I'd have no problems towing that van" - I found that was NOT the case!
My Discovery is similar to your van just marginally lighter - I now travel with less water in the tanks (front 1/3 full, rear 2/3).
We live in the tropics so heading south means taking extra warm clothing - best done with light but warm jackets & layers of clothing. There will be one less pair of trousers (mine) going next time + a sports coat (had to take it in case we go out somewhere "flash" - didn't).

Bedding (we have single beds) consisted of sheets, a light quilt each & a couple of cotton blankets each.

Remember there is 15L of flush water in the toilet cistern, 23L in the HWS, 190L in the water tanks, 16-18L of gas - there's around 240kgs to start with. Food, clothing, other stuff?

Leave the "essential stuff you could have" that you read in the back of caravan magazines at home!

What you think your van can carry is NOT what the police, transport inspectors & insurance companies think. They go on the compliance plate. You could get your van's weight capability increased but that will cost an engineering appraisal & possible suspension update.

Perhaps we could put hydrogen in the tyres?? Might be ok until they get hot.

Dickodownunder · Guru

Welcome here,

Many vans are not what they are supposed to be on the ID plate.
This can be caused by extra items being added after manufacture.
This may include tanks, solar, extra spare wheel and so on.

You did not mention the loaded weight of your vehicle including the weight of the drawbar when loaded.
The van comes in at well under your maximum allowable vehicle weight so I would hook it up and weigh the vehicle and carry much of your necessities in there.
Try to distribute this weight while including passengers and a full fuel tank as evenly as possible.
It is very favourable for the tow vehicle to be heavier than the van but keeping in mind the legal and recommended capacities of both.

raiman · Newbie

I asked Jayco HQ for the suspension rating and chassis they would not give them to me they said it is up to the engineer to work that out wtf they should have at the push of a button.
I will just have to stay at caravan parks.where I can connect to water and leave my tanks empty.
these type of caravan manufacturers should be held accountable, or at least when a newby caravan buyer of his or her first van, there should be a sign on the new caravan stating (This vans water and gas tanks should be empty whilst travelling or don't add any food cloths tools blankets etc ) This van is not designed to carry anything!!

Dickodownunder · Guru

raiman wrote:
I asked Jayco HQ for the suspension rating and chassis they would not give them to me they said it is up to the engineer to work that out wtf they should have at the push of a button.
I will just have to stay at caravan parks.where I can connect to water and leave my tanks empty.
these type of caravan manufacturers should be held accountable, or at least when a newby caravan buyer of his or her first van, there should be a sign on the new caravan stating (This vans water and gas tanks should be empty whilst travelling or don't add any food cloths tools blankets etc ) This van is not designed to carry anything!!

I bought a new JAYCO van last year and I was supplied a weighnote prior to purchase stating the tare.

I weighed it on the time of pick up and it was spot on.

Was your van brand new and purchased from a dealer?

If so I would be talking to them.

If you ordered extras to be fitted at the time of or after purchase then it will be deemed to be your problem.

The tare weight on the plate is at the time it leaves the factory.

It is a relatively easy procedure to have it inspected and upgraded if suitable by an engineer.

-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Wednesday 7th of November 2018 01:01:51 PM

Possum3 · Guru

Contact Colin Young - an engineer at Caravan Council ;
CARAVAN COUNCIL OF AUSTRALIA
3 Margaret Street
Parkdale VIC 3195
T: 0409 865 399
F: 03 9587 1828

caravancouncil@optusnet.com.au

He will ask you the correct questions and provide you with your options.

aussie_paul · Guru

Dickodownunder wrote:
I bought a new JAYCO van last year and I was supplied a weighnote prior to purchase stating the tare.
I weighed it on the time of pick up and it was spot on.
Was your van brand new and purchased from a dealer?
If so I would be talking to them.
If you ordered extras to be fitted at the time of or after purchase then it will be deemed to be your problem.
The tare weight on the plate is at the time it leaves the factory.
It is a relatively easy procedure to have it inspected and upgraded if suitable by an engineer.

-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Wednesday 7th of November 2018 01:01:51 PM

Just done our 2011 23' Jayco Sterling, lifting the ATM from 2727kg to 2950kg. Cost under $400.

The tare had increased 58kg from the factory compliance plate.

Aussie Paul. smile

-- Edited by aussie_paul on Wednesday 7th of November 2018 05:01:57 PM

-- Edited by aussie_paul on Wednesday 7th of November 2018 05:22:33 PM

Dickodownunder · Guru

Hi Paul,

That is good to hear. I know you were having problems with the loading of your van.

It makes for a lot easier caravan life when your wife can take her clothes and shoes. biggrin biggrin

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Hello Paul,
I gather you didn't have to do any changes to the van?

Geoff,
How come your wife lets you take your clothing? Are you not so good on the eyes?

raiman,
I did a Tare weight check on my van - took everything except the mattresses, one gas cylinder & the battery out. The tare was 30kg over the plate - that accounted for the battery & my small solar panel that is attached to the roof. The gas cylinder was full & round about equalled the weight of two empty gas cylinders.

I guess your van would be similar - so it comes from the factory with the spare tyre & bumper, jack, twin water tanks, awning & two empty gas bottles but no battery (dealer added). The reason I keep some water in the tanks is for handling on the road.
Other forum members suggested that before I head for the remote areas - eg Innaminka, the Strzelecki Track, etc that I top up the water tanks at Cunnamulla, etc. The chances of finding over zealous inspectors out there are quite remote.

To be fair to Jayco, their chassis is rather basic when you compare it with some other similar caravans (eg Goldstream, New Age, etc) on the market that can carry additional weight. Being able to carry the weight means that you also have to tow it & stop quickly if need be.

I suggest you do the "total test" of the car & the van that you'll find in caravan magazines over the past year or by doing a search in the Techies Section of the forum. Some people although being told they could tow 3,500kg have found that they are overloaded by adding one set of clothes!
You will end up having an appreciation of Tare, ATM, Ball weight (mass), GVM & GCM.

It certainly brings you back to earth with a jolt but you learn to live with it AND enjoy seeing what's out there.

Dickodownunder · Guru

Hi Warren-Pat 01

Unfortunately, no room for my clothes within the constraints of weight and cupboard space.
Budgie smugglers and thongs, I am afraid, is not a good look on someone of my age and build.

Last trip I managed to sneak some carry on luggage onto the back floor of the Toyota and I did, at least, dress up for the visit to the local on a Saturday night.
My sneakers were a luxury as were a pair of jeans.
Now you can see why we tend to stay in north Qld during the Aussie winter....

biggrin biggrin biggrin

fwdoz · Guru

Before our last trip, weighed our Jayco Sterling van & then old tow vehicle prior to leaving. Car was well inside, caravan had 215kgs to spare. We took no water on this trip, but we at least know we have been quite good with what we are carrying.

New tow vehicle has gone over the weighbridge already with 2 occupants & a full 150L tank of fuel. No towbar on it yet, but allowing for that, a decent ball weight & extras we are still well within the limit.

Even my fishing rods are going to fit!

-- Edited by fwdoz on Wednesday 7th of November 2018 06:53:32 PM

aussie_paul · Guru

Warren-Pat_01 wrote:
Hello Paul,
I gather you didn't have to do any changes to the van?
===================================
No Warren, they inspected everything to make sure wheels, tyres, brakes etc met the standards. Very annoying that Jayco did not do it before it left factory.
Now all I have to do to be legal is load everything so that there is no more than 180kg on the ball. Might take a few goes to get genset etc placed to not have a negative stability affect on rig, BUT happy so far.
Aussie Paul.

montie · Guru

Reality here is you have an ATM of 2070kg and a plated tare of 1730kg giving you a payload capacity of 340kg.
That's 40kg above the average allowable payload for a single axle van.
Once you know what your available payload is, then you must manage your loading accordingly.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

It is also a reality that a payload of 340kg is totally inadequate for most travellers and until builders accept this they will be inflicting enormous unnecessary stress on many of their customers.
Cheers,
Peter

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Thanks Paul,
You have one advantage over raiman & I - you have 4 wheels!
I know I can get a heavier axle & bearings but the wheels are the issue!

I fear for raiman that as his StarCraft is similar to my Disco, that his wheels are the same too. I had to replace one last year due to a spoke being cracked. When it happened, I have no idea. It could have been like it when I bought the van from the dealer - 2nd hand. They have a load rating of 1000kg on them. At the time I did a search for an alternative - a tyre dealer did likewise. Only Jayco has these wheels produced - in China 15x6JJ.

Good old Jayco runs everything to the limit (on single axled vans anyway) relying on some of the weight being shifted to the vehicle (ball weight).

montie, I'm certain my payload is 340-350kg. In the specifications, the Jayco Outbacks fitted with a shower/toilet have "the increased carrying capacity" - perhaps it's the water in the cistern & HWS (that's 38kg). I've asked our local Jayco dealer, but didn't get a suitable answer.

Perhaps when my former employer's shares rise a bit more (from a recent crash), I'll swap for a Goldstream!

Dickodownunder · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
It is also a reality that a payload of 340kg is totally inadequate for most travellers and until builders accept this they will be inflicting enormous unnecessary stress on many of their customers.
Cheers,
Peter

Absolutely correct and the main reason they keep the ATM as low as they can is so people with inadequate tow vehicles may buy them in the guise of all being legal.

I cannot for the life of me see that the ATM should not match the rating of the wheels, axles, suspension and chassis construction.

When I bought my van if I had ordered it and waited three to four months for delivery then Jayco would update the ATM to 3500kg which reflects its construction but because I bought it straight off the showroom floor I was stuck with the 475 kg payload.

Treecrest · Veteran Member

Gday Raiman

Don't know what the rules are in the state you have the van registered, but if you want the van's load capacity upgraded you will have to find an engineer who could advise you on what has to be upgraded on your van before you could get its VIN plate updated.

I had to replace the tyres for those that had a higher load rating, install a break away battery (already had electric brakes), check the load the brake drums are rated to and the draw bar and safety chain rating.

So it can be done in WA but not sure about other states.

Glen

PeterInSa · Guru

Re (I had to replace the tyres for those that had a higher load rating, install a break away battery (already had electric brakes), check the load the brake drums are rated to and the draw bar and safety chain rating.)

Ditto in SA along with: checking wheels, bearing, axles, springs, shackles, coupling, rear bumper bar supports ( has 2 spares tyres) along with the strength and GTM of the chassis.

Peter

the rocket · Guru

We have had vans restamped. Do not know if you can do the same. Maybe ring a caravan sales yard and ask who they recommend And give them a call.

Possum3 · Guru

the rocket wrote:
Maybe ring a caravan sales yard and ask who they recommend And give them a call.

I suggest you check with Caravan Council Engineer rather than a van salesman. http://www.caravancouncil.com.au/

CARAVAN COUNCIL OF AUSTRALIA
3 Margaret Street

Parkdale VIC 3195
T: 0409 865 399
F: 03 9587 1828

Possum3 · Guru

Duplicate post - sorry fat fingers

-- Edited by Possum3 on Thursday 8th of November 2018 07:44:32 PM

raiman · Newbie

thanks guys I will let you know how I go and by the
way axle group loading is 2000kg what ever that means
Raiman