Global Warming

Spydermann · Senior Member

Global Warming

Desert Dweller · Guru

With climate change, over population, unemployment, environmental damage, wars, terrorism & everything else happening the world is doomed BUT we oldies have had a good time! No amount of global conferences or government intervention will avoid the inevitable. Celebrate OUR generation, Elvis, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones etc. We had a great time when we were young & now it's our time to have a great time in retirement. JOB DONE. Christmas Cheers & Happy, Safe Travels to All.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

This publication is an excellent read irrespective of your views on whether there is climate change/global warming or not ... and/or how it was (or wasn't) created.

http://www.amazon.com/Reporting-Live-World-David-Shukman/dp/1846688876

Reporting live from the end of the world book.jpg

"When frontline BBC news reporter David Shukman switched beat from world affairs to environment in 2003, he feared he might be in for a dull life. He couldn't have been more wrong."

I thoroughly recommend it.

Cheers - John

NeilandRaine · Guru

Regardless if it is or isn't happening you can bet the price of fuel will go up after the next budget when the carbon tax is reintroduced.
Travel now while you can afford it

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Irrespective of if there is ever going to be a possible re-introduction of a 'carbon tax' (or whatever it may be called or not), the foreseeable future price of oil is likely to remain at its current low level - or even drop. Consequently, our current 'low petrol prices' are quite probably going to continue for some time.

The price of refined fuel within Australia will likely be more affected by the fluctuations of the Aussie dollar.

These articles may help -

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/business/energy-environment/oil-prices.html?_r=0

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/07/opec-plan-kill-us-shale-oil-price-down-seven-year-low

Cheers - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Sunday 13th of December 2015 09:27:47 PM

Spydermann · Senior Member

When I first started to pay for petrol myself (as distinct from borrowing my parents car) in 1969, it was about 12 - 14c / L. That equates to $1.35-$1.57 / L in today's terms.
In 1965, a long neck of beer and a gallon of petrol were 4s10d. That equates to $6.14 today or $1.45 l for petrol. A long neck today is $6.29 but is 750ml not 736ml.
Surprisingly beer has just outstripped inflation but petrol hasn't.

However, my first wage as a 14 year old was 2/10 / hour which equates to $3.60 / hour. In 1972, $2 / hour as a casual computer operator at night equates $19.29 today.

Petrol is so cheap now relative now to what is was, we expect to get in our vehicles and travel anywhere and expect goods & services to be available everywhere at all times.

Trouble is a carbon tax on industry to discourage wasteful transport would initially end up hurting the consumer, particularly self-funded retirees.

It's businesses like Australia Post's mail service that needs to be looked at. They are talking about shifting the Ballarat Mail centre to Dandenong. This would mean that a heap of mail that gets posted in Ballarat & surrounds would firstly go to Dandenong to get sorted, then a lot of it comes back again. Now that's a carbon footprint that should be stopped.

brickies · Guru

The whole world has spoken , So what ever we think we have just got to move on .

Spydermann · Senior Member

brickies wrote:
The whole world has spoken , So what ever we think we have just got to move on .

Definitely need to move on and clean up. Just hope that the decisions have been made on good scientific analysis and not emotional irrational greenies.

KFT · Guru

And with whatever the world does to reduce pollution/carbon emissions it is all undone with just one volcanic eruption. There seem to be a few of those lately too.

I wonder why that is

Frank

Bryan · Guru

KFT wrote:
And with whatever the world does to reduce pollution/carbon emissions it is all undone with just one volcanic eruption. There seem to be a few of those lately too.

I wonder why that is

Frank

Most probably because we don't have a Volcanic Eruption Emissions Tax in place yet.

Sorry, I get disillusioned sometimes, morbid even.

Spydermann · Senior Member

KFT wrote:
And with whatever the world does to reduce pollution/carbon emissions it is all undone with just one volcanic eruption. There seem to be a few of those lately too.

I wonder why that is

Frank

Agree. Cannot commit to something that Mother Nature has the last say over.

Desert Dweller · Guru

Apparently Cows constantly farting give off a lot of gases. I wonder if that applies to us humans as well? It probably does.

Wizardofoz · Guru

Desert Dweller wrote:
Apparently Cows constantly farting give off a lot of gases. I wonder if that applies to us humans as well? It probably does.

Well that does it, now I suppose we will have a FAR tax, I hope they put that on the FAR queue!

Recoup · Guru

50 million years ago , how much ice was at the poles ? Cheers

KFT · Guru

Recoup wrote:
50 million years ago , how much ice was at the poles ? Cheers

i dont think anyone was around back then.

if there was someone keeping an eye on it they should have left a note

hehehe

Delta18 · Guru

Recoup wrote:
50 million years ago , how much ice was at the poles ? Cheers

It is well known that this planet goes through cycles of Ice Ages to (what is the term?) Warm Ages.

In Ice Age the planet basically freezes over then over the course of millions of years it warms up again.

There have been many of these cycles and we are just heading into a 'warm up' part now.

Nothing we can do will ever stop this happening. Not to say that reducing pollution is a bad thing though.

Krusty · Senior Member

195 Nations went to the Climate Change Summit, 0% thought Man Made Climate Change wasn't real. 40,000 delegates went to the Summit, 0% spoke publicly that Man made Climate Change wasn't real. All of the top Climate Change Scientist went to the summit, 0% said Man made Climate Change wasn't real. If it's a Left Wing, Greeny, Commie Plot, it's an Outstanding One. Also, I think the Earth is Flat, I mean look outside!! It's FLAT!!!!!

dorian · Guru

I look at it this way. What do I know about climate science and meteorology? The answer is nothing. Who should I, an ignorant observer, look to for answers? The answer is not politicians aka lawyers, real estate speculators and union hacks.

What I'm seeing in this thread is the kind of discussion that you would get at a pub or a footy game. Remember when Australia won the America's Cup? I recall people who had never set foot in a boat coming to work, shaking their heads and saying, "Why didn't Bertrand tack? I would have tacked. Why didn't he tack?"

Leave it to the scientists, I say. It would be irresponsible to ignore them. Even if they get it wrong, we will still be better off in the long term. Any technology that weans us off OPEC oil or dirty coal must be a good thing.

-- Edited by dorian on Tuesday 15th of December 2015 09:03:01 AM

Spydermann · Senior Member

Dorian. I'm mumbling with my keyboard again and I'm liking everyones opinions.

I know what you mean about the America's Cup. Same happens with football, experts everywhere with some actually taking themselves seriously.

If you don't go to pubs, this is a way to have a discussion. Actually I am a scientist of sorts. Trained and graduated as a Physicist and my first real job was at the CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Physics. One task was I worked on the sidelines of the Newport Power Station enquiry. in 1974. That was along time ago but I'm still interested in watching from the sidelines.

Scientists noted too many people are employed saying climate change is man-made and trying to come up with solutions. Too many noisy people wouldn't have jobs. The scientists also noted that lefties/greenies always need something to protest against. No Vietnam War these days. Activists need a new hobby - climate. If we forgot measuring climate change by temperature and just settled on minimising pollution, renewable energy, recycling etc., then the climate would take care of itself. Although we do need targets to work to. That's a dilemna that I personally think the greenies don't understand. I think the target of temperature is wrong. I still look at things with an analytical mind. Scientists must have a logical explanation for everything. They don't make decisions on emotion or hear-say. Just facts.

Greenpeace has a mixture of Greenies/Conservationists and Scientists who are regularly at logger heads trying to sort out fact from fiction / emotion. Some members were actually trying to have Chlorine banned.

aussie_paul · Guru

dorian wrote:
I look at it this way. What do I know about climate science and meteorology? The answer is nothing. Who should I, an ignorant observer, look to for answers? The answer is not politicians aka lawyers, real estate speculators and union hacks.

What I'm seeing in this thread is the kind of discussion that you would get at a pub or a footy game. Remember when Australia won the America's Cup? I recall people who had never set foot in a boat coming to work, shaking their heads and saying, "Why didn't Bertrand tack? I would have tacked. Why didn't he tack?"

Leave it to the scientists, I say. It would be irresponsible to ignore them. Even if they get it wrong, we will still be better off in the long term. Any technology that weans us off OPEC oil or dirty coal must be a good thing.

-- Edited by dorian on Tuesday 15th of December 2015 09:03:01 AM

Good post Dorian.

I look at it this way. The natural climate cycle varies over time. What we are really trying to get a handle on is "What the affect of the increase in population with its industry, agriculture, and power hungry usage" has/is occurring?

Aussie Paul. smile

done dreaming · Senior Member

I wish i was a global warming,sorry,climate change activist so i could make money out of this con too!!!!

Delta18 · Guru

CLIMATE CHANGE WARNING. A MUST READ.

The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the
Commerce Department yesterday from Consulate, at Bergen, Norway

Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the
Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes.

Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of
earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.

Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before
ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds. Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt
the sea will rise and make most coastal cities uninhabitable.

This is believed to be caused by the emissions from Fords Model T automobile.

* * * * * * * * *
I must apologise. I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922, as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post - 93 YEARS AGO.

goannaway · Veteran Member

Desert Dweller Mentioned that cows farting didn't help in this climate warming change, I read somewhere that termites were the biggest contributor with Zebra's next(I couldn't get my head around that one), sheep came close behind at about fourth, and cows at about sixth in line with humans about eighth.( these figures are based on population numbers). this was supposably from a climate warming change web site. also when aircraft are grounded when a volcano erupts the pollution in the area decreases. go figure

Krusty · Senior Member

Whenever I see a Rally on the TV about Climate Change overwhelmingly the Denier Rally is filled with Old People and the ones rallying for action on Climate Change are Young People. Obviously one group will have to live with the consequences of the other, and the other group doesn't care as they won't be around and wants the party to continue.

brickies · Guru

I am alright Jack

03_Troopy · Guru

Good posts from both Dorian and Spyderman, and Aussie_paul. Of course there is a change in climate, which seems to occur naturally, in both minor and major cycles. The thing we need to find out is if we/man, spewing out all the crap we do into the air, the oceans and into the land, is having any effect on the naturally occurring changes. If, in trying to mitigate any effect we might have, we start to clean up the crap in our atmosphere, then it has to be a good thing anyway. And, as has been said already, who is going to find out if we are creating major differences to the natural cycles? It isn't a bunch of Greeny protestestor, nor a bunch of pollies making policies that seem popular to their target audience, and not even, to quote John Williamson, a bunch of "old farts in caravan parks". We can only rely on the ones that make a career of studying such things, scientists.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Bob, (03_Troopy) [and anyone else reading this thread] I put up this link to a publication earlier.

http://www.amazon.com/Reporting-Live-World-David-Shukman/dp/1846688876?tag=viglink20327-20

I agree with your comments completely and this publication is the most balanced, informative, well-written and easily read publication I have read over the past decade that provides considerable information from scientific observation and research that the author has encountered that poses as many questions as it perhaps answers without any politics or "greenie" carry-on.

Typical of me to harp on about something hmm ... but I do really recommend this publication to laypersons who just want to try and understand why the impact on the planet has been so vocal over the past 20-odd years.

Cheers - John