BALI

Hey Jim · Guru

BALI

Big Gorilla · Guru

That's a question you should ask the AFP....

Weevil · Guru

Hey Jim wrote:
Our fellow Australians for what they May have Done.Do they deserve to Die.

No they don't, and neither did the victims of their drug dealings before they were caught....I also feel for their relatives if they were not involved in their illegal activities.

With all the publicity on the death penalty in Indonesia and some other Asian countries, it is a shame more of those inclined to take their chances choose to ignore this. The irony of it all is if they had been caught in Australia the time they have already served in prison would have probably been very similar in their sentence and they would have been out of gaol now.

-- Edited by Weevil on Friday 6th of March 2015 09:29:53 PM

iana · Guru

Political, not a good subject!

the rocket · Guru

I don't like to pass judgement on anyone. I do believe two wrongs don't make a right. it just makes two wrongs.

elliemike · Guru

It's not as if they don't warn you before you arrive in Indonesia. The notices are everywhere.

I do not support Capital Punisment either.

If someone is prepared to walk past all the warnings with the Gear on them ? ? ?

-- Edited by elliemike on Friday 6th of March 2015 08:38:46 PM

Bruce and Bev · Guru

Mike and Ellie..........I agree with you 100% and also what Vic says about the drug victims

snap1946 · Senior Member

I bet we would have a different out look if these people sell drugs to one of our children and they die what do you think should happen to them

Bruce and Bev · Guru

ahhh......we're now seeing people taking the pure emotion out of the situation and speaking the facts !! I dis-agree with executions, but lets remember these guys flew in to get hard drugs in a big way to feed to our young people.....and its not like they didn't know the consequences as per Mike and Ellies sign at the Indo entry points for visitors

ballast2 · Guru

G'day. Just to add my 2 bobs worth. I fell great sadness for the families of these two but they committed the crime in a country with this penalty and it is well known what that penalty was. This two are not the first Australians to be put to death in overseas country's for the same crime and I'm sad to think they will not be the last. I do think that moving them to the death island and delaying the event is cruel and unjust. Indonesia is a foreign country in its own right and for us to interfere in there justice system is wrong. Imagine if they tried to interfere in our system.
Sorry if this offends anyone.

elliemike · Guru

We don't see a "Candle Lit Vigil" for all the end users. Ruined lives and despairing grieving families of drug users, dead in a dirty toilet somewhere. I knew a beautiful young girl who went that way. The end result of the smugglers who made it home.

These Guys were organisers/recruiters of other Mules as well. Some of them doing time in Indonesia and Hong Kong I believe. It was not just a one off mistake by misguided young men coerced into taking drugs through Bali.

johnq · Guru

Totally sick of the media manipulating public opinion to get long-running sympathy stories for selected criminals. Corby is an example too. They are not 'girls' and 'boys' etc., and there are others in foreign gaols for similar serious offences.

On an albeit much lesser offence (and penalty) there is a current story about two tourists vandalising a railway carriage in Singapore. On arrest they are repentant too, or at least that is what say and their lawyers say. It is interesting that the media have decided not to show the photos of the damage. Doubtless they sprayed public structures in other countries they visited including Australia.

I recently travelled in a spanking new electric train (Gold Coast to Brisbane) and some windows were already so scratched it marred the outside view. The offenders who do that would do the same when travelling overseas. Overseas they might not get the sympathetic magistrates in Australia. Criminals have absolute contempt for civil society and laws.

Cowboy7307 · Senior Member

It was said on TV the other night The Australian people and government were screaming for the death penalty for the Bali bombers, These two may have caused as much harm to families in Australia, if the drugs thy were carrying got here

blaze · Guru

gotta remember all those innocent lives that could have been lost in aust can also make choices, they also made some bad ones
cheers
blaze

dorian · Guru

elliemike wrote:
It's not as if they don't warn you before you arrive in Indonesia. The notices are everywhere.

Drug traffickers are too stupid to read. Let the Indonesians do what we should be doing. Death to drug filth.

-- Edited by dorian on Saturday 7th of March 2015 06:36:03 AM

dorian · Guru

johnq wrote:
Totally sick of the media manipulating public opinion to get long-running sympathy stories for selected criminals. Corby is an example too. They are not 'girls' and 'boys' etc., and there are others in foreign gaols for similar serious offences.

On an albeit much lesser offence (and penalty) there is a current story about two tourists vandalising a railway carriage in Singapore. On arrest they are repentant too, or at least that is what say and their lawyers say.

Recently on ABC radio a caller pointed out that those two of the Bali 9 who got the death penalty reformed themselves, but the other 7 appear to be living life as they always did. In fact ISTR a photo of one of them doing drugs in gaol.

dorian · Guru

elliemike wrote:
We don't see a "Candle Lit Vigil" for all the end users. Ruined lives and despairing grieving families of drug users, dead in a dirty toilet somewhere. I knew a beautiful young girl who went that way.

I don't have any sympathy for drug users. Their problems are self inflicted. I have to live in a neighbourhood full of them. I had a drug cultivator and cocaine addict on one side growing marihuana underneath his fruit trees, and a bunch of scumbags on the other side dealing drugs from their flat. The local pigs were informed, by several people, but these corrupt, lazy filth couldn't find tits in a strip joint, nor did they even care. The cocaine filth made my life a misery and he later tormented his wife, also a drug user, until she committed suicide.

Every time I drive down the main drag, I drive past an intersection where a young school girl was killed while crossing the road. The driver was a worthless heroin addict.

Footprints · Senior Member

is not for me to pass judgement however if someone comes to my country or home I expect them to abide by the laws, custom and regulations that are in force, failure to do so results in a consequence of those actions and behaviour so when travelling overseas we are obliged to adhere to other countries laws and customs or face the consequences. Try it in a Middle Eastern country or even with our close allies the United States of America. (I don't hear the Australian government making veiled threats to USA because they still enforce the death penalty). When considering the harm caused to peoples lives when addicted to drugs supplied by these lowlifes may I suggest spending a little time in the birthing units of our Australian hospitals to witness the terrible pain and suffering inflicted on some of the totally innocent new born babies who have to undergo the pain and distress of drug withdrawal because of the drug use of the Mother during pregnancy.

lizard · Veteran Member

Fitting punishment - get it done and world can move on

NeilandRaine · Guru

Danny Green posted this on his Facebook page.
Candle lit vigil in Canberra by politicians for the two men facing execution in Bali !!
Do the same politicians ever have a candle lit vigil for the people who are innocently killed by people ridiculously under the influence of drugs in car accidents, or for the nurses and ambulance staff who are daily attacked and injured by methamphetamine addicts who attack them for merely trying to assist them?
It seems very odd that two convicted drug smugglers are getting a candle lit vigil in our capital by our politicians. Would they not be better off spending the time doing something to help the people in the country that really need it?
Seems pretty good to me. Regardless of if you think the Death penalty is right or wrong we still should look at the big picture.
While the Government, both parties, are grovelling to Indonesia for the lives of two drug dealers another atrocity is being committed by Indonesia that no one seems to care about.
www.culturalsurvival.org/ourpublications/csq/article/west-papua-forgotten-war-unwanted-people

aussie_paul · Guru

NeilandRaine wrote:
Danny Green posted this on his Facebook page.
Candle lit vigil in Canberra by politicians for the two men facing execution in Bali !!
Do the same politicians ever have a candle lit vigil for the people who are innocently killed by people ridiculously under the influence of drugs in car accidents, or for the nurses and ambulance staff who are daily attacked and injured by methamphetamine addicts who attack them for merely trying to assist them?
It seems very odd that two convicted drug smugglers are getting a candle lit vigil in our capital by our politicians. Would they not be better off spending the time doing something to help the people in the country that really need it?
Seems pretty good to me. Regardless of if you think the Death penalty is right or wrong we still should look at the big picture.
While the Government, both parties, are grovelling to Indonesia for the lives of two drug dealers another atrocity is being committed by Indonesia that no one seems to care about.
www.culturalsurvival.org/ourpublications/csq/article/west-papua-forgotten-war-unwanted-people

The pollies etc would be better off spending that time helping at soup kitchens etc.

Aussie Paul. smile

dING · Senior Member

Reckon this what the Fed police was on about when they said they will comment when tis all over

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2869230/Bali-Nine-ringleader-Andrew-Chan-mastermind-international-drug-deal-went-horribly-wrong-threatened-17-year-old-mule-Hong-Kong-jail-mouth-shut.html

Weevil · Guru

Hi dING,

Looks like someone doesn't like anyone knowing the truth, when I open the link my aniti virus shows it is infected with Trojan virus's.

I have read this link before elsewhere and it was ok then, so someone with vested interests has got at it to prevent others from reading it.

Bruce and Bev · Guru

the only sympathy I have for these 2 men (not boys) and their families is the fact that the are now being hung out (no pun intended)to dry - by the fact of their delayed execution. This is cruel and I would think breaches various Geneva conventions.

Not only do we have senior police posing (as they did with the parts of the Air Asia crash as it was lifted out of the ocean) with these guys, but now they are going through this. Obviously the Indo govt is feeling pressured by various govts who have their nationals also about to be shot, so will go through the farcical process of having a corrupt judge appear to finalise the issue one way or the other. Who knows, they may decide not to shoot them if the Indo President can find a way of not loosing face.

All these issues should have been sorted out before telling them and their families they were to be shot and transporting them to the execution island.

Whether you agree or not with their execution, Im sure you will agree that this debacle we are now seeing is not fair and just

hako · Guru

This is interesting:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/bali-terrorist-muhammad-cholili-freed-on-parole-as-18year-jail-sentence-halved/story-fni0cx12-1227017261729

Weevil · Guru

Pretty disgusting, one rule for their own citizens and another rule for outsiders... furious

Gundog · Guru

Bang Bang.....end of story

Unfortunately I will offend some for that I am sorry, but for anyone involved with distribution of drugs, you do the crime you do the time and those 2 deserve not a second thought.

johnq · Guru

Just a bit away from the original subject, it is surprising how some columnists can be such cringing supporters and apologists for any foreign culture apart from our own (our own Aussie culture and inherited Westminster system of government and freedom of speech apparently fills them with disgust), however, when foreign countries resolve to apply their well-publicised sentences for convicts who committed serious crimes, the usually culturally-cringing media commentariat demand that the Australian government do 'something' about the behaviour of the foreign country.

Just saying, the media with the ABC taking the leadership role, are usually chockers with opinion pieces and interviews with visitors and locals alike sledging and disrespecting Australia and Australians. It is politically correct, progressive(?!), to slam any love of Australia as despised nationalism.

However, when things go pear-shaped through knowingly transgressing the laws, culture and tradition in a foreign country, it is a different kettle of fish.

Not commenting on capital punishment, just on the hypocrisy of the political correctness of multiculturalism.

While I like to travel and I enjoy the excitement and stimulation of observing other cultures, I am filled with pride and grateful when on return I first see Australian landfall. Sometimes I could kiss the tarmac with thanks.

The TV is better switched off.

Plendo · Guru

There are so many contradictions, double standards or both in this story. First the comparison with the treatment we as Australians expect, and from memory demanded for the Bali bombers, and while the impact of there crime was horrific (yes I lost a friend in the bombings), it would be no worse than the impact of the drugs this pair were trying to smuggle into Australia.

If my understanding is correct they would not have been caught by the Indonesians if the AFP who were well aware of the penalty they would face had not informed the Indonesian authorities about their plans/activities.

If Australia is so adamant about being against the death penalty, then why are they not saying anything to try to save the other nine individuals currently due to be executed in the next batch, are they automatically sub human because they are not Australian?

They were sentenced to death about seven years ago, and the government has been awfully quiet for over six years, perhaps it is the cynic in me, but I think maybe the polls are telling them it would be a good thing to do, especially when they need a distraction to be the lead story in the nightly news.

I am glad Australia does not have the death penalty, but Indonesia does, it is there country, and there law. We should stop trying to tell our neighbor how to run his country.

Webmaster · Guru

Thanks for your input everyone. It seems to be getting a little political so I will close this down now.