Inverter Musing..

SnowT · Guru

RE: Inverter Musing..

oldtrack123 · Guru

SnowT wrote:

Hey I'm not saying this the one and only...
-- you need a RVD/RCD combo system...... they do make them as a portable plug in unit with a 2-4 outlet system..

Juergen

HI Juergen

Yes ,

That will do the job & Safely allow the use of multiple class1 devices

As far as I am aware there is no other similar unit .

PeterQ

Bravehearts · Veteran Member

Thanks very much Peter for you sound advice, I am truly grateful.

With reference to using an extension lead, the batteries and inverter are in the boot at the front of the van, and the washing machine is a semi permanent fixture in the ensuite at the rear of the van, and I would need at least 25ft of lead to connect both. It was suggested to me that a lead of this length is not a good idea but no reason was given.

I think based on your advice my safest option is to find a suitably qualified electrician who has full knowledge of the regulations as you have pointed out.

Again , I thank you for your advice.

Regards, David.

Bravehearts · Veteran Member

Thank Juergen, however exactly what is a RVD/RCD combo system, and where would I get one and approx cost.

I greatly appreciate your help.

Regards, David

Please note I have just googled the RVD/RCD and see they are supplied by Safelec. Please excuse my ignorance of all things electrical however how does this device work in conjunction with the inverter.

-- Edited by Bravehearts on Friday 18th of July 2014 01:53:16 PM

oldtrack123 · Guru

Bravehearts wrote:
Thank Juergen, however exactly what is a RVD/RCD combo system, and where would I get one and approx cost.
I greatly appreciate your help.
Regards, David

HI David

The RVD/RCD combo works with any source to protect against shocks to earth [the most common type]

It uses a different technolgy to a simple RCD&7 does not require an Earthed neutral to operateIt can there for be used with ISOLATED power sources such as inverters & portable generators

there are several types depending on actual application

More information & assistance is available from Safelec Aust

or via

sales@safelec.com.au

The RVD proteced 4outlet box the Juurgen refered to is around $495

PeterQ

Bravehearts · Veteran Member

Thanks Peter and also to others who have contributed. I now see the light and my next move is to contact safelec as suggested.

This forum has been invaluable and I am sure I am not the only one who has benefited from your combined knowledge.

Safe Travels to all.

Many Thanks,

David.

SnowT · Guru

Peter there is a cheaper model out.. But not from Safelec..

Juergen

Bravehearts · Veteran Member

Hi Juergen,

Can you please let me know where I might get the cheaper unit from.

Thanks, David.

oldtrack123 · Guru

SnowT wrote:
Peter there is a cheaper model out.. But not from Safelec..

Juergen

Yes , the cheaper Chinese knock off !!!. biggrin

Bu tis it fully approved??

PeterQ

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 18th of July 2014 07:03:20 PM

Phil C · Guru

oldtrack123 wrote:
Jaahn wrote:
Hi
Informative posts all.
However there is one thing that has not been said about inverters. Safety !! They put out 240volts just like the mains and can kill you just like the mains power. HOWEVER the mains have an earth connection and possibly an earth leakage shut off to protect you in case of a fault in the appliances or the like. A stand alone inverter (or a generator too), do not have these protections. If you get an appliance fault then it could be live and no fault would be noticeable!! Being inside a metal frame or metal case would mean that you could get a circuit if you touch it. Care is always good but more so with these situations. Water spilt or rain is to be avoided also.
Take care Jaahn

-- Edited by Jaahn on Friday 18th of July 2014 09:34:55 AM

Hi Jaahn
YES , a timely warning & it does not just apply to inverters
IT also applies to portable generators
See my last post

PeterQ
Peter

Hmmm some of this stuff is heavy and dangerous.

I have a 2500W pure sine wave (so the label says) inverter. It is only ever used to run our electric blankets, small battery chargers (eg Ipad, Iphone, etc) and espresso machine in an emergency (every morning).

From my point of view I will never use it for much else, I consider the beast very bloody dangerous and a major muncher of battery electrons, so it gets used sparing as does my generator, our solar panel replaces most of those battery electrons on a sunny day.

I guess Im way to careful to put it up to my washing machine and bigger appliances. Just call me chicken.

From memory a RCDs need a good earth and MEN link, Im not sure our vans are set up that way (please feel free to correct me if I am wrong)

Safe travels

Jaahn · Guru

Hmmm some of this stuff is heavy and dangerous.
I have a 2500W pure sine wave (so the label says) inverter. It is only ever used to run our electric blankets, small battery chargers (eg Ipad, Iphone, etc) and espresso machine in an emergency (every morning).
From my point of view I will never use it for much else, I consider the beast very bloody dangerous and a major muncher of battery electrons, so it gets used sparing as does my generator, our solar panel replaces most of those battery electrons on a sunny day.
I guess Im way to careful to put it up to my washing machine and bigger appliances. Just call me chicken.
From memory a RCDs need a good earth and MEN link, Im not sure our vans are set up that way (please feel free to correct me if I am wrong)
Safe travels

Hi,

I would think that using an inverter with an electric blanket would be the most risky thing to do. Not for me ! confuse

An RVD/RCD combo unit would make me feel a lot better. I have never heard of them before. Glad I read it here. smile

Jaahn

oldtrack123 · Guru

Phil C wrote:
Hmm some of this stuff is heavy and dangerous.

From memory a RCDs need a good earth and MEN link, Im not sure our vans are set up that way (please feel free to correct me if I am wrong)
Safe travels

Hi Phil

Yes the RCD does need an earthed neutral system to operate, but Not necesssarily MEN wink

Your van, in AUSTRALIA, should not have an EN link or MEN link in the van itself [New zealand can, but they have strict regular testing requirement to ensure correct power in polarity is maintained]

In Aus the only MEN link should be in the supply MAIN SWITCHBOARD.

Portable generators & inverters are /should be fully isolated sources ,unles permanently fitted with their OWN RCD [with an internal EN bond created, NOT M.E.N. ]

As pointed out in previous posts the RVD does not need an EN bond for operatio n& can be used with generators & inverters while maintaining the FIRST line of protection "an ISOLATED source"

PeterQ

SnowT · Guru

oldtrack123 wrote:
SnowT wrote:

Hey I'm not saying this the one and only...
-- you need a RVD/RCD combo system...... they do make them as a portable plug in unit with a 2-4 outlet system..

Juergen
HI Juergen

Yes ,
That will do the job & Safely allow the use of multiple class1 devices
As far as I am aware there is no other similar unit .

PeterQ

PowerSafe..

here is the Link...

and yes they are Compliant with Aust Reg's.. in fact they might be set to a higher standard..

Juergen

Joe50 · Guru

OK, so if I'm using an inverter in my motorhome, does putting one of those PowerSafe Guardian devices between the inverter and any appliance I connect (Class 1 or 2) provide protection similar to an RCD in a domestic home situation? Also, I have an Ampfiibian adapter - when using my generator should I place a PowerSafe Guardian device between it and the Ampfibian, even though the Ampfibian has its own RCD? I think I understand most of this, but I also realise that a little knowledge can be dangerous....

SnowT · Guru

If you have no Form of protection at all, you need some form..

The RCD RVD discussion is a very hot potatoes..

I'm not going to go into either as it has all been talked about beforehand..

Juergen

Bravehearts · Veteran Member

Thanks guys, I have contacted Powersafe and the units are available from Haymans Electrical at a cost of around $250.

After reviewing all the posts of this topic I have decided to do the following re my washing machine issue.

1) I will purchase the Powersafe unit which I will use as an back up power source when plugged into the inverter, and will in the main use it for Class 2 applications.

2) I will NOT run the washing machine using power from the inverter, and will invest in a 20 litre bucket and plunger to use as a portable washing unit if at any stage we cannot use 240V power or our generator.

This forum has provided more detailed and practical information than I have received from various retail "Experts" and again my thanks to all who have contributed. Life is easy when you know the answers, however we should never stop asking the questions.

Safe Travels to all,

David.

-- Edited by Bravehearts on Wednesday 23rd of July 2014 09:01:28 AM

aussie_paul · Guru

I know I am a bit slow BUT what is Musing? or should it be Fusing?

Aussie Paul. smile

oldtrack123 · Guru

SnowT wrote:
Powersafe

here is the Link...
and yes they are Compliant with Aust Reg's.. in fact they might be set to a higher standard..

Juergen

Hi Jurgen
Here is it's spec
" 4 x 10 amp 240V IP66 auto switched outlets
1 x 10amp 2 pole 10kA RCD/MCB combo"
THAT unit is a RCD unit NOT A RVD
IT is totaly useless with a portable generator or inverter!!

PeterQ

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Wednesday 23rd of July 2014 12:32:36 PM

oldtrack123 · Guru

Bravehearts wrote:
Thanks guys, I have contacted Powersafe and the units are available from Haymans Electrical at a cost of around $250.
After reviewing all the posts of this topic I have decided to do the following re my washing machine issue.
1) I will purchase the Powersafe unit which I will use as an back up power source when plugged into the inverter, and will in the main use it for Class 2 applications.
2) I will NOT run the washing machine using power from the inverter, and will invest in a 20 litre bucket and plunger to use as a portable washing unit if at any stage we cannot use 240V power or our generator.
This forum has provided more detailed and practical information than I have received from various retail "Experts" and again my thanks to all who have contributed. Life is easy when you know the answers, however we should never stop asking the questions.
Safe Travels to all,
David.

-- Edited by Bravehearts on Wednesday 23rd of July 2014 09:01:28 AM

Hi David

You should cancel that order QUICK

It gives NO protection used with your portable inverter or genertator

It is no different to any of the units you can get at yourrlocal hardware storesFor use on MAINS power!!

Except for it's IP rating

AS I stated earlie,r I am not aware of any equivalent to the Safelec RVD unit. which DOES give protection with ALL sources

PeterQ

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Wednesday 23rd of July 2014 12:45:59 PM

Bravehearts · Veteran Member

Thanks Peter, fortunately I have not bought it as yet. Now for plan B, obviously I have no option other to than to get the Safelec unit. It is times like this when you can end up looking like a complete idiot however thanks to you I have avoided that.