Be very careful about putting too much weight to the rear of your van. This will make it unstable. I can see that you are trying to reduce the ball load on the drawbar, but the effect of shunting it to the rear of the van could make it tailwag easily. Many years ago, I did a lap of the block with a Magna and a camper trailer. I had a bike rack on the rear of the trailer, and I mounted 2 x 20 L cans for water on the bar. I initially filled them and took off, but the rig was decidedly tail heavy, so it was only when I was getting into unknown and dry territory when I filled the cans. As soon as possible, I emptied then because it was a very twitchy rig when they were full.

erad wrote:

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Be very careful about putting too much weight to the rear of your van. This will make it unstable. I can see that you are trying to reduce the ball load on the drawbar, but the effect of shunting it to the rear of the van could make it tailwag easily. Many years ago, I did a lap of the block with a Magna and a camper trailer. I had a bike rack on the rear of the trailer, and I mounted 2 x 20 L cans for water on the bar. I initially filled them and took off, but the rig was decidedly tail heavy, so it was only when I was getting into unknown and dry territory when I filled the cans. As soon as possible, I emptied then because it was a very twitchy rig when they were full.

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Thanks erad. Being a farm boy I was very familiar with heavy vehicles and towing heavy loads, and fully appreciate what you are saying.

Aussie Paul. 

Thanks John, getting a bit late for me and am pretty knocked about due to the heat and humidity we have been having. I will put more info up tomorrow. We had the van and car loaded up a lot so as to get a real life reading.

The van weight whilst connected to Pajero with WDH fitted was 2700kg, the car was 2900kg, and the ball weight was 320kg.

Aussie Paul. 

Hi Aussie Paul , I posted an article the other day to do with TBW , the guts of it was that for example if your vehicle has a TBW limit of 250 kg and an overhang of 1500mm and  you fit a WDH to your rig then the TBW limit is actually lowered as a result because the overhang is increased in length , in the post there was a calculation that configured the difference . this is the calculation Stated Vehicle TBO, divided by the actual TBO x the tow ball weight = recalculated ball weight. So if your TBW is 250 to start with and your using a WDH then it is actually lower than what you thought to start with .

Oh dear, not what Paul wants to hear, but probably the best solution. Just looking at your compliance plate, the empty van ball weight was 145kg, the ball weight has increased dramaticly, just wondering how heavy those chairs you put in are, the chairs fitted to our van are very light, too light.
What I am concerned about, is what are you going to do when all these projects are solved?

rockylizard wrote:

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aussie_paul wrote:

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Thanks John, getting a bit late for me and am pretty knocked about due to the heat and humidity we have been having. I will put more info up tomorrow. We had the van and car loaded up a lot so as to get a real life reading.

The van weight whilst connected to Pajero with WDH fitted was 2700kg, the car was 2900kg, and the ball weight was 320kg.

Aussie Paul. 

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 Gday...

If I am reading the info wrongly, someone please correct me ........ but, I think you have a genuine dilemma Paul.

Given the ATM of your van at 2,700Kg and the manufacturer's specs for towing, the Pajero is limited to a TBM of 180Kg at that ATM. With the TBM currently at 320Kg, I would think you have a snowball's chance in hell to reduce the TBM to 180Kg (or less).

Again, if I am incorrect would someone please correct me ... but it is not just "getting 140Kg off the tow ball" but needing to relocate considerably more weight around (to the rear of?) the van to attain that TBM.

Even if you were successful by "relocating weight" you will not have actually 'reduced' the ATM of the van.

From my limited knowledge I would say, to get the situation 'compliant' means the van has the potential to become quite unstable to tow. A van with 2,700Kg ATM, with (if you get there) 180Kg on the ball and now a more rearward weight (even if it could be 'centrally' placed) is heading toward potential instability.

I really do hesitate to say this ... but to my thinking, I would either be changing the tow vehicle to one more suited to towing that van ... or looking for another van with a lower ATM and/or TBM.

Cheers - John

Hi John...Good post,but it is worth pointing out that Pauls problem is even worse

than it appears,using his own figures.If the van weight is 2700kg while it is on the car,    

 that is its GTM,NOT its ATM.....ATM is made up of GTM (2700kg) plus TBM (320kg)  

 so ATM is actually 3020kg....WAY too much for the desired,and probably unattainable,  

 180kg TBM.I suspect that this combination could thus fall into the ridiculously unstable     

 category,and it seems that the only solution is your suggestion.New tow vehicle or  

lighter van.....sad,inconvenient truth.I wish Paul only goid luck with getting this sorted.      

                                                                                                                                  Cheers         

 

  

 

 

 

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-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 30th of January 2018 11:29:00 AM

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 30th of January 2018 11:30:11 AM

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 30th of January 2018 11:31:05 AM

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 30th of January 2018 11:33:25 AM

PeterInSa wrote:

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Aussie Paul, sent you a PM

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 I see that, thanks Peter.

Aussie Paul. 

Could it be that the 180kg is a typo and should read 280kg on the ball?
180kg makes no sense at all.

sandgrooper1 wrote:

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Goodday OldBloke,

The information supplied by Montie in his post re the 180kg ball load limit over a 2500kg towing is correct.

Cheers AL

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 Second that......and there are so many people who have not done any research,are overloaded

to the point of stupidity,and believe that  it somehow is the fault of somebody else.

Towing with a Pajero is like sending a boy to do a mans job!

 

Gday...

Here ya go oldbloke ... from the horse's mouth.....

https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/vehicles/pajero/specifications

 

Cheers - John

aussie_paul wrote:

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This is taken from my Pajero manual.

Aussie Paul. 

 

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 Hi Paul....Unfortunately for you,there it is in black and white. 250kg max ball weight up to 2500 ATM,

but only 180kg from 2500kg to 3000kg towable mass.

                                                           Cheers.

aussie_paul wrote:

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Thanks everyone. We certainly have some problems. I had no idea about this sort of stuff when we bought the van.

We were lucky that we got a floor plan that suited our needs. Not sure why we bought the Pajero, they seemed to have a reasonable record from friends, relatives etc. The first time I "roughly" weighed it there appeared not to be a major problem. Mistake!!!

When I added the 200 watt solar panel I mounted it as far back as possible, and took the anti flap gear from under the bed and put on rear bumper.

After reading the weight problems on the forum, since that time, I decided I had better get serious about weighing.

So, there begins the saga.

Decision time now to work out we continue with our caravan journey, if so, change van or tug or both. With all the work I have done on the van am reluctant to change the van. Haven't spent any unneccessary dollars on the Pajero, so maybe time to look at tugs, but dollars are tight. Had hoped our rig would have lasted quite a while. 

Aussie Paul.

 

 

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 Hi Paul.....it certainly is not a good situation that you find yourself in,but on the positive side,                                            

your car seems to be worth $25-$30k,dependent on mileage. For that price you can probably

get something like a 3.2 litre Ford Ranger or similar that is of similar vintage to the Pajero.Just beware......

the 3 litre Patrol is no go if it is Automatic,as it is then limited to only 2500kg towing capacity.The manual

version is good for 3000kg,I believe. Another option is an older model 4.2 litre Diesel Patrol.....

I am no fan of Nissans,but that 4.2 litre engine seems to go forever? 

Anything seems preferable to getting rid of the van that you have tailored to your needs.......

and remember that lifes too short to just give up and end your caravan journey!

I wish you only the best in your efforts to  find a solution to your problems.......   

                                                                                               Cheers

 

yobarr wrote:

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 Hi Paul.....it certainly is not a good situation that you find yourself in,but on the positive side,                                            

your car seems to be worth $25-$30k,dependent on mileage. For that price you can probably

get something like a 3.2 litre Ford Ranger or similar that is of similar vintage to the Pajero.Just beware......

the 3 litre Patrol is no go if it is Automatic,as it is then limited to only 2500kg towing capacity.The manual

version is good for 3000kg,I believe. Another option is an older model 4.2 litre Diesel Patrol.....

I am no fan of Nissans,but that 4.2 litre engine seems to go forever? 

Anything seems preferable to getting rid of the van that you have tailored to your needs.......

and remember that lifes too short to just give up and end your caravan journey!

I wish you only the best in your efforts to  find a solution to your problems.......   

                                                                                               Cheers

 

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Thanks Chris, I use WDH BUT I have found the towing stability reducing since I have been getting heavier on the ball weight.

Last trip I had the rear water tank full and the front one empty. Certainly better. People have said the Pajero rear end is too soft, so rather than spending dollars and still struggling with weights maybe go to twin cab with canopy to house heavier stuff like gensets etc.

Aussie Paul. 

I have always said that I reckon 80% of van combo are over weight somewhere, ball weight, axle group, gross etc, I know it would not be the good people on this forum or other forums to do with vans, but all them other uneducated people out there
cheers
blaze