The weight situation..

yobarr · Guru

RE: The weight situation..

Daryl620 · Veteran Member

Double BUGGER.......

Bill B · Guru

aussie_paul wrote:

Thanks John, getting a bit late for me and am pretty knocked about due to the heat and humidity we have been having. I will put more info up tomorrow. We had the van and car loaded up a lot so as to get a real life reading.
The van weight whilst connected to Pajero with WDH fitted was 2700kg, the car was 2900kg, and the ball weight was 320kg.
Aussie Paul.

In an earlier post you had a picture of the Jayco compliance plate which showed an ATM of 2727 klgs.

On your figures above your travel weight is 3020 kgs which is 293 kgs over your ATM.

As the axle group of the van is rated at 2900 kgs you maybe able to get an engineer to sign off on an increased ATM.

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Hi Paul, Welcome to the "Weight dramas". I went through it all a few months ago & like you probably bought a van that the dealer said "my car could tow". In fact, it couldn't legally tow much more than an ordinary trailer!

A lot of the trouble starts in the factories (as we read here & in the magazines) but for those of us who buy used caravans, we have to limit what we can carry some how. Luckily I'm a small user of battery power & can cope with a small solar panel on top & portables if I need them.
Magazines market all sorts of goodies for our cars (especially 4WDs) & also for our vans. I now look at "rigs" driving down the road & especially those that have tinnies on top of the car & wonder "how far over weight is that?"

For me it was relatively simple - fill only one water tank & IF I have to keep to the correct weights when heading to remote areas, die of thirst!

I guess, like me you don't know if the second water tank was fitted at the factory or by the dealer at the earlier purchaser's request. And as erad mentioned putting heavy weights on the back can add other issues - looking at your pictures, the bumper doesn't seem strong enough to hold additional weight.

Could you get some advice from a good mechanic or engineer before you consider changing the car?

Before Telstra went to the now "normal" Remote outfitted utilities, they used station wagons. My boss had the drawer systems that are common place in most private "touring" wagons added in the back. Some six months later it was discovered that the loads were too heavy & the drawers had to come out!

montie · Guru

Unfortunately some tug manufacturers tend to exaggerate the towing capabilities of their tugs.
Mitsubishi spruik a 3 tonne towing capacity, but the small print at the bottom of the page restricts you to a 180kg ball rating if you do so.
Why don't they just quote a 2.5 tonne towing capacity with the correct ball rating (250kg).
Many of the current crop of dual cab manufacturers spruik a 3.5 tonne towing capacity, but again the small print tells you that if you load the tug to it's GVM while doing so you will exceed your GCM rating.
Again, why not simply quote a 3 tonne towing capacity to begin with.

The Pajero ball rating is a real problem and there is no easy fix.

If your van is overweight you can take stuff out and fix it, the same for the tug.
But if your ball rating is coming in a around 5% of ATM you have a problem as is the case for Paul.
Ideally you ball measured weight should be around 10% of the loaded van weight. Certainly, IMO, no lower than 8%.

Dickodownunder · Guru

Hi Paul

As Warren suggested above, it may pay you to get some advice from a professional dealing in legal vehicle upgrades.
I was talking to such a person this morning and his company has an upgrade for the Mits Paj that will achieve a legal 300 kg on the ball.
You will need to contact Lovells with all your details regarding weight requirements for your particular situation.

Dickodownunder · Guru

Paul, just for your info the recent Pajero upgrades are not listed on the Lovells website.

aussie_paul · Guru

Today I decided to see if I could check the TBW. Totally filled the water tanks and used bathroom scales with a fulcrum. 400mm from pivot point to centre of ball coupling, then 800mm to centre of bathroom scales. Bathroom scales showed 64kg. I belive that gives me a TBW of 192kg. Have I calculated this correctly. My old grey matter is not the same since accident. Mental arithmetic and spelling were always a forte of mine until the accident.

I now have a weighing station 20km down the road so I will be able to conduct weighing at my own leasure. I need to confirm measurements for myself. I didn't actually see the scales when my terrible figures were produced. It was a mates weighbridge so no ticket.

Aussie Paul. smile

TBW..jpg

IMG_0318..JPG IMG_0319..JPG IMG_0320..JPG

-- Edited by aussie_paul on Friday 2nd of February 2018 10:44:51 PM

yobarr · Guru

aussie_paul wrote:
Today I decided to see if I could check the TBW. Totally filled the water tanks and used bathroom scales with a fulcrum. 400mm from pivot point to centre of ball coupling, then 800mm to centre of bathroom scales. Bathroom scales showed 64kg. I belive that gives me a TBW of 192kg. Have I calculated this correctly. My old grey matter is not the same since accident. Mental arithmetic and spelling were always a forte of mine until the accident.
I now have a weighing station 20km down the road so I will be able to conduct weighing at my own leasure. I need to confirm measurements for myself. I didn't actually see the scales when my terrible figures were produced. It was a mates weighbridge so no ticket.
Aussie Paul.

Hi Paul.....Because I can see a jack lying under your boards,I assume that you have
set the towbarup at the same height it is when connected to your car? This being the case,
your calculations are indeed correct.This will no doubt be a bit if a relief to you,but please
remember that,to be safe,your TBW should be around 10% of your ATM,so,using this TBM,
your vans ATM should be only 2000kg (+/-).
Cheers

montie · Guru

Paul,

I would still make the trip to the weighbridge.

Weigh attached van and without moving van disconnect and weigh again.
The difference will be your ball weight. Using this method you can also calculate your ball weight percentage of the loaded van. Should ideally be around 10%.
Good luck

-- Edited by montie on Saturday 3rd of February 2018 09:31:49 AM

aussie_paul · Guru

montie wrote:
Paul,

I would still make the trip to the weighbridge.

Weigh attached van and without moving van disconnect and weigh again.
The difference will be your ball weight. Using this method you can also calculate your ball weight percentage of the loaded van. Should ideally be around 10%.
Good luck

-- Edited by montie on Saturday 3rd of February 2018 09:31:49 AM

We are planning a few days away from around the 10th so will take the opportunity to see any progress re weights at the weighbridge down the road.

Aussie Paul. smile

aussie_paul · Guru

While I had the tow ball weighing gear set up I decided to run some different scenarios. Various tank water amounts and shifting genset from back to front.

Aussie Paul. smile

Tow ball weights.PNG

aussie_paul · Guru

Ok, made the trip to Wallace Vic. weighbridge 30km in the opposite direction to where we intended, Ararat's Green Hill Lake reserve. Worthwhile exercise to get correct weights. Now settled at Green Hill Lake reserve for the week.

Car hitched with WDH 2800 kg

Van hitched with WDH 2640 kg

Ball 215 kg

Van wheels and resting on jockey wheel 2820 kg

Aussie Paul. smile

-- Edited by aussie_paul on Sunday 11th of February 2018 11:19:11 PM

aussie_paul · Guru

It appears I still have a problem BUT nowhere near as bad as my mates figures showed. I certainly doubt their towball weight and almost to much of a coincidence to have the tug and van figures exactly on the 100 kg.

Not sure what the graduations are on these weigh bridges. Yesterday it appeard that it may be 20kg, Eril just told me they were fluctuating 20kg until they settled. I have been told the scalies will allow 10%?

The ball wight showed 220 but I used a trolley jack and allowed 5kg. The jockey wheel weight was 240kg. I must measure how far back from the coupling it is.

Aussie Paul. smile

-- Edited by aussie_paul on Monday 12th of February 2018 10:11:58 PM

-- Edited by aussie_paul on Monday 12th of February 2018 10:12:27 PM

aussie_paul · Guru

It appears I still have a problem BUT nowhere near as bad as my mates figures showed. I certainly doubt their towball weight and almost to much of a coincidence to have the tug and van figures exactly on the 100 kg.

Not sure what the graduations are on these weigh bridges. Yesterday it appeard that it may be 20kg, Eril just told me they were fluctuating 20kg until they settled. I have been told the scalies will allow 10%?

The ball wight showed 220 but I used a trolley jack and allowed 5kg. The jockey wheel weight was 240kg. I must measure how far back from the coupling it is.

Aussie Paul. smile

-- Edited by aussie_paul on Monday 12th of February 2018 10:11:58 PM

All these acronyms are not consistant to me. My Pajero manual does not use the same lingo as the authorities. I need someone to explain to me now I have re weighed as to possible fixes.

Aussie Paul. smile

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Not really sure what ya mean ... but does this help?

Caravan weights 01.jpg

Cheers - John

aussie_paul · Guru

Thanks John, I used to be good at this stuff BUT not now.

I have put my info to paper, maybe someone can make sense of it for me. biggrin

Aussie Paul. smile

Van weights Feb. 2018.PNG

iana · Guru

Well Paul, the figures look good except for the tow ball weight, if the Pajero specs stamped on the tow bar say 180kg, then you are over by 35kg. But then the percentage of weight on the tow bar looks good. Your tug is heavier than the van, and the combined mass is well within limits.
Why not just think of a destination and go there, and don't worry.

TheHeaths · Guru

Paul,

looking at the figures you have put in the spreadsheet, my read is this. This is based on my reading that the weights were done with van connected to vehicle.

Plated van ATM (maximum ALL up weight) is 2727 kg, and your actual loaded weight is 2855 kg (connected weight plus towball), so you are 128 kg over loaded. That is your total Pajero weight as well.

Allowable max ball weight is 180 kg and as Iana says, you are 35 kg over on that.

Plated GTM (or weight allowed on van wheels) 2585 kg, actual weight on wheels 2640 kg (ie weight when connected excluding ball), so 55 kg over on that.

As far as GCM and Pajero GVM, you look ok.

As far as I see, you still have some work to do to get all weights into allowable/maximum ranges.

Also, as far as I am aware, there is no 10% tolerance allowed for overweight, certainly not for passanger vehicle/ trailer combinations.

aussie_paul · Guru

The van GTM of 2820 and ball weight of 215 are not connected to tug Ian.

If I could get the van GTM up to the axle group loading of 2900 that would certainly help. Then decide if to upgrade Pajero suspension or get a twin cab with a tray. Decisions decisions decisions!!!! biggrin

Aussie Paul. smile

-- Edited by aussie_paul on Saturday 17th of February 2018 07:40:00 PM

iana · Guru

Do you need a twin cab? the weight of the load on the tray is too far back. I had a new loan vehicle and getting to the rear doors was a pain. Consider for a moment the extra cab, great to put things in the back when you open the suicide doors, the grand kids could travel in comfort, and the load is more forward over the wheels. We find ours great, you can keep the four doors.

aussie_paul · Guru

iana wrote:
Do you need a twin cab? the weight of the load on the tray is too far back. I had a new loan vehicle and getting to the rear doors was a pain. Consider for a moment the extra cab, great to put things in the back when you open the suicide doors, the grand kids could travel in comfort, and the load is more forward over the wheels. We find ours great, you can keep the four doors.

Thanks Ian. Yes, good point.

Aussie Paul. smile

aussie_paul · Guru

Sent email to Jayco head office asking for the ATM to be upgraded to the axle group rating of 2900kg. Will see what happens.

Aussie Paul. smile

Bill B · Guru

Jayco will not provide an upgraded ATM, you will need to use an approved engineer.

aussie_paul · Guru

Bill B wrote:
Jayco will not provide an upgraded ATM, you will need to use an approved engineer.

Ok Bill, I guess I will find out what has to be done.

Aussie Paul. smile

aussie_paul · Guru

Received a call back from an engineer and he says they would need the van for half a day to check that chassis, drawbar etc are up to scratch. Cost $935

Aussie Paul. smile

Bill B · Guru

aussie_paul wrote:

Received a call back from an engineer and he says they would need the van for half a day to check that chassis, drawbar etc are up to scratch. Cost $935
Aussie Paul.

Had mine done in Qld a few years ago and cost was $400.

aussie_paul · Guru

Bill B wrote:

Had mine done in Qld a few years ago and cost was $400.

Thanks Bill.

Aussie Paul. smile

aussie_paul · Guru

Back again. Getting sorted for our late August Adelaide trip. We are planning on having the van ATM upped to the axle rating, and Pajero rear end upgraded. Someone advised they had their vehicle suspension around Adelaide and for the life of me I can't find that post or message. disbelief

I think is was a Lovell's place but would like to go to the one advised.

Aussie Paul. smile

-- Edited by aussie_paul on Monday 9th of July 2018 01:06:57 PM

aussie_paul · Guru

Guy rang me back from equipeauto in Adelaide and says they do not have a GVM upgrade for a Pajero that is registered in Victoria. disbelief

Aussie Paul. smile