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Post Info TOPIC: Waeco Powersupply


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Waeco Powersupply


Good to see you was able to fix it.


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D.L.Bishop


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Got it all back together and working like new.  I got a response from Domeetic-Waeco claiming that pre 2006 CF60 would not have a problem and if so it is because of low voltage/power supply cabling.  They are in complete denial that the 2006-on models were simply upgraded because of this fault, and claim the pre 2006 models had no fault.  Yep and pigs can fly.

Anyway BIL happy and thanks to you guys, I managed to identify and fix what Waeco won't admit to, to me anyway.



-- Edited by phild01 on Monday 1st of May 2017 10:38:32 PM



-- Edited by phild01 on Monday 1st of May 2017 10:39:25 PM



-- Edited by phild01 on Monday 1st of May 2017 10:40:21 PM

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Hmm, I need to drill the pins that hold the board in, not to mention the glue. Must be devised as an anti-tamper warranty thing!



-- Edited by phild01 on Wednesday 26th of April 2017 09:51:17 PM



-- Edited by phild01 on Thursday 27th of April 2017 05:40:29 PM

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Thank-you muchly DeBe, was the critical encouragement I needed. Just went back to it, un-taped the wiring, clipped the wire tie at the top and withdrew the thing. I really should have just done the suggested bypass with an external temp control. It's my BIL's fridge and he needs it soon.


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The only reason I answer is I get an email notification when theres a post here. Have marked your pic on where I have bent parts to get it out, it is not an easy exersize.CF60.JPG



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D.L.Bishop


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Debe and habana have successfully removed the PSU but for the life of me it has me beat.
Sorry new to this forum and found it trying to solve a Waeco CF60 error light condition mucking around with temperature of the fridge. Even though the thread is old I hoped these guys still look in.
I bought the 9 amp polyfuse but struggling to pull the PSU unit free. The condenser pipes are in the way. Even lowering the compressor tray and bending the bottom tube, there is no way of pulling the unit out. What also stops it coming are the leads and suppression doughnut on top of the plastic housing getting in the way.
If those who have been successful doing this task, I'd love to hear some clues I might be  missing.

CF60.JPGCF60 2.JPG


-- Edited by phild01 on Wednesday 26th of April 2017 03:13:45 PM



-- Edited by phild01 on Wednesday 26th of April 2017 06:52:58 PM

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The 560 ohm resistor is for the Fault LED. The 680 ohm resistor on the switch is to give 3000RPM on the compressor if you want it to cool down quicker, it does draw more current when running. With the switch closed bridging the resistor it gives a mutch slower 2000 RPM  (economy) draws less current when running.



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D.L.Bishop


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Hi guys, sorry to not have updated for a while, been caught up with other stuff..in fact I thought I posted this the other day.

The digital controller didn't arrive until after the NY break, so I made do with what I had. That was to rig a 24V application, which ultimately worked significantly no better than 12V, whilst away over the break.
It worked fine with plenty direct sunshine, but even though the apparent battery voltage was generally around 12V, it still did the random cutout and error light on...I have a feeling the unit is super-sensitive to battery capacity.
...however...

But the main reason today is, I need to connect the digital controller, and looking at Debe's diagram and photos, looks simple enough, but am confused by the 560 resistor, as doesn't match to the resistor codes I'm looking at...?

Is any chance of clearer details of that and the one (680 ?)on the switch ..?? I just want to make sure I get it right thanks again for your help, and don't forget I'm not a tech-head

cheers, duTch



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I'll get hold of 12v thermostat anyway, but as I have the goods to do so, I'll reconfigure my panel(s) and set up a 24V system and see if it runs OK off that, as it did before. .If that doesn't work, then I'll try the 12v thermostat- ¿but in that case I can't see any need for a step down doodad anyway. ..?

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The 12V one is the one I use. The step down do dad, is the 10V reg & part of the circuit board cut off a Waeco.



-- Edited by DeBe on Sunday 14th of December 2014 11:54:28 PM

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Dorian- I noted the other day that when I left it overnight, the heat sinks were warm before I switched the unit on, which made sense when I traced the power in (it doesn't really make sense though to have the on/off downstream from the control module/control board without an on/off switch at point of entry as a standard item, rather than an 'add on' ).
Having said that I guess it's not normal to be plugged in unless in use...!

Haven't had the available time I thought this week....been suckered into 10 hour days

Debe, it seems those thermo units come in a variety of dedicated voltage, I guess a 12v one will be more versatile in conjunction with your step-down doodad for 24 V.....now I just need to find the best place to get one



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ISTM that the design of the 5V and 10V regulators on the main PCB is problematic. AFAICT, the input to the 7805 and 7810 can go as high as 29V, which means that even at low load currents the regulators would be dissipating significant wattage. Perhaps this could explain the failure of the 7805 on the original PCB and the consequential failure of all the ICs on both boards, assuming that is what happened.


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"I'm at a loss to understand your measurements. cry.gif'

How do ya reckon I feel..?? 

"CP2-3 is a puzzle."     Yes I agree, it goes nowhere neither on the new board, nor on the old board...

"SW1 on your new board is configured as a battery voltage limit selector. The LOW, MED, and HIGH settings connect resistors R3, R5, and R4 between the compressor's P and C terminals. LOW is selected when the slider is closest to CP2, and HIGH is selected when the slider is nearest to CP3. In the LOW position the resistance is zero (R3 is a wire link).'

I'll process that tomorrow.....I assumed when I found 'R3' that it be a Jumper you referred to earlier..?

 

Debe, I'll look at your pics closer tomorrow- will have time to kill......thanks

 just a note, whilst checking above stuff, still running on mains/24V, it cut out @ -6/+3 set on LED 8, so that indicates the thermostat is functioning in some kind of fashion...?

I'm hoping that all of this will be of some benefit to someone else in the future......



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WAECO CF-110 circuit-Elect Thermostat.jpgWAECO CF110.1.JPGWAECO CF110.2.JPGWAECO CF110.3.JPGWAECO CF110.4.JPGWAECO.8.JPGWAECO.3.JPGIt should run on 12vdc or 24vdc. When on 12v check the voltage on the top 2 conectors ont -Danfoss Bridge C & T to run comp @ 2000RPM.JPG

If all else fails then this is how it was done with a fixed battery dropout voltage & a 2 speed compressor selection. Used the 10V reg to feed power to the electronic thermostat (this is used if its likely to be run on 24V.)

-- Edited by DeBe on Thursday 1st of May 2014 08:19:01 AM



-- Edited by DeBe on Thursday 1st of May 2014 11:42:34 AM



-- Edited by DeBe on Thursday 1st of May 2014 11:43:21 AM



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D.L.Bishop


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I'm at a loss to understand your measurements.

SW1 on your new board is configured as a battery voltage limit selector. The LOW, MED, and HIGH settings connect resistors R3, R5, and R4 between the compressor's P and C terminals. LOW is selected when the slider is closest to CP2, and HIGH is selected when the slider is nearest to CP3. In the LOW position the resistance is zero (R3 is a wire link).

The pinout of connector CP2 appears to be ...

CP2-1,2 <-- red -----> V+
CP2-3 <---- red -----> ???
CP2-4 <---- black ---> Compressor-D (error lamp output)
CP2-5 <---- white ---> Compressor-C (common)
CP2-6 <---- yellow --> Compressor-T (RPM select)
CP2-7 <---- grey ----> Compressor-P (battery voltage limits)

CP2-3 is a puzzle. I can't see where it goes, and I can't even guess at what it might be. Do you have any idea?

Some of the interconnections on the PCBs are obscured, so there could be errors in my drawings or interpretations (I've had to guess at a few).

Do the wire colours at the PCB end match the colours at the compressor end?


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Definitely SW1 onboard switch, the original remote switch is by appearances identical, and nowhere to connect to..

When running, it doesn't seem to matter which position

Quote from Allvolts;

"As for the slide control, slide it to the left and leave it like this(this is the instruction from Waeco, we dont find that the position makes a difference).
>The fridge should work as before except that the the slide control will always be in the low or economy position depending upon the size in litres.'

 

Photos are

1) Old remote SW1 

2) Reverse of New PCB, SW1 at bottom above thumb

3) Closeup of R3, R5 which are beside SW1



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A resistance of 18K between the compressor's P and C terminals selects 12.0V cut-in and 10.8V cut-out.

The fact that this resistance does not vary as you operate the slider switch suggests that either the switch is not configured to operate as an ABS selector, or perhaps you are operating the wrong switch.

Since the new PCB has on onboard switch rather than an external one, then this is the switch that you should be using. The external switch that was connected to the old PCB via connector CP5 is no longer functional.



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Ok, power disconnected, checked between 'C' - 'P' resistance....same readings on each switch setting- none zero, one meter (DIGITECH) '20K' setting says 17.41, another meter (AMPROBE) on '40K' says 16.4....??...analogue meter says something completely else...!!!!

 

Compressor did run happily on 12V(11.5) this morning for about 10 minutes, then back to old ways....I think I might have to use two batteries in series for 24V and rearrange the charge panel to suit...and chase up one of Debe's digital thermistor

One Thermostat wire initially read 11.3? (on 20K) then nothing, but is the pair that consistently allows compressor to start, the other gave 12.02 (on 20K) then nothing and consistently will NOT allow compressor to start...

 

Thus far, I still have hair but maybe not for long..!!!!!



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                               Waeco CoolFreeze CF-110 

                               Display PCB (005221 Rev:0)


                                    CP6-5,11

                                      VCC
                                       +
                                       |
                                .--------------.
              LED4     ___ R20  |     14       |     CP6-2
     Cold |---|<------|___|-----|3          1,2|-------o   Display data
          |                     |              |
          |   LED5     ___ R21  |              |
          |---|<------|___|-----|4            8|-------o   Display clock
          |                     |              |     CP6-1
          |   LED6     ___ R22  |              |
          |---|<------|___|-----|5            9|-------|   VCC (/CLR)
          |                     |              |
          |   LED7     ___ R23  |              |
          |---|<------|___|-----|6  SN74HC164  |
          |                     |              |
          |   LED8     ___ R24  |     U5       |
          |---|<------|___|-----|10            |
          |                     |              |
          |   LED9     ___ R25  |              |
          |---|<------|___|-----|11            |
          |                     |              |
          |   LED10    ___ R26  |              |
   Freeze |---|<------|___|-----|12            |
          |                     |              |
          |   LED3     ___ R12  |              |
    Turbo |---|<------|___|-----|13            |
          |                     |      7       |
          |                     '--------------'
          o                            |
                                      ===
        CP6-3                         GND

    Display enable                  CP6-12




    CP6-10  o----|         CP6-4   o----|         CP6-9   o----|
                 |                      |                      |
                 |                      |                      |
            SW2  o |               SW3  o |               SW4  o |
                   |=|                    |=|                    |=|
         On/Off  o |             Turbo  o |              Temp  o |
                 |                      |                      |
                 |                      |                      |
                ===                    ===                    ===
                GND                    GND                    GND




             Power LED1 (bicolour)

                LED      LED
    CP6-8  o---->|---+---|<----o  CP6-7
                     |
                    .-.
                    | |
                    | | R15
                    '-'
                     |
                     |
                    ===
                    GND



               LED2         ___               Error lamp output
   CP6-5  o---->|----oo----|___|----o  CP2-4  Compressor-D
                    CP6-6   R2
              Error

          Display PCB     Main PCB


(created by AACircuit v1.28.7 beta 02/28/13 www.tech-chat.de)


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CP1 -> lamp
CP2 -> compressor
CP3 -> emergency switch
CP4 -> thermistor
CP5 -> ABS/RPM switch (optional)
CP6 -> control/display panel

With power disconnected from the fridge, measure the resistance between the compressor's C and P terminals for each position of the battery protection slider switch (SW1). According to Danfoss's datasheet, the position that produces a reading of zero ohms corresponds to the lowest voltage setting (9.6V cut-out, 10.9V cut-in).



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Thanks again for the input...

I'm a bit confused, there is no 'J' jumpers that I can see on the new board..(?) The 'ABS' SW2/CP5 is now incorporated on the new board. Allvolts said to slide it to the left, but was not sure if he meant my left or the other left (whether switch is at top of board or bottom, as the photo we were referring to at the time was rotated 90- switch at side)...

I've attached both boards for easy reference, but further update... I've gone full circle and back to the original issue...

I have two identical wire pairs with yellow connector blocks which I expect are to/from the thermostat CP4/NTC (resistance between these is I think ~16.6 on I think the 20K setting ). This morning I had full functioning switch buttons and LED's, but no compressor action, but when I swapped these thermostat wires it fired up immediately.... on mains/24v and runs fine, (got down to 0/10 on 4 led setting, and cuts out/in- responds to further Temp setting) but on 12V still the compressor tries to kick in but fails even with hardwired to battery/80W panel with upwards of 12.6V(a bit cloudy), which drops to just under 11V under start load- fan runs but retries startup after ~75 seconds (timed), and I have error #1

 

 Edited 11.08 7/12/14 Just to save any confusion;

NEW PCB (LEFT)                                 OLD PCB (RIGHT)



-- Edited by duTch on Sunday 7th of December 2014 12:09:56 PM

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                                Waeco CoolFreeze CF-110 

                                Main PCB (028221 Rev:A)

                                U3 = EM78P458AP
                                U4 = AT24C02

                                           VCC
                                           ___
                                            |
                                            |_____________
                                            |      |     |
                                            |      |     |
                                         .------.  |    .-.
                                         |  16  |  |    | | R14
                                 Q2 <----|1     |  |    | |
                                         |    20|--|    '-'
                                 Q1 <----|2     |        |
                          VCC            |    19|--------+---o CP6-4  Turbo SW
                          ---            |      |
                           |             |      |              C5
                          .-.            |      |           ||
      Thermistor       R8 | |            |    18|-----+-----||--> GND
          NTC             | |            |      | X1  |     ||
           |              '-'            |      |    _-_
          _V_      CP4-2   |             |      |   |___|3.58 MHz
      |--|___|---------o---+-------------|3     |     -
      |----------------o---+             |      |     |     ||
                   CP4-1   |             |    17|-----+-----||--> GND
                          ===            |      |           || C6
             Temperature  GND            |      |
             Display                     |      |
 CP6-3 o---| Enable          VCC o-------|4   15|------------o CP6-8    Power LED (bicolour)
           |                             |      |
            \|                ___        |      |    VCC
         Q4  |---------------|___|-------|6     |    ---
            <|                R9         |      |     |
           |       VCC                   |      |   +-+--+
           |       ---                   |      |   |    |
          ===       |                    |  U3  |  .-.  .-.
          GND       +--------+---+       |      |  | |  | |
                    |        |   |       |      |  | |  | | R16
                    |       .-. .-.      |      |  '-'  '-'
               U4   |    R18| | | | R19  |      |   |R17 |
               __   |       | | | |      |    14|---+----)---o CP6-9    Temp SW
           .-o|1 |o-'       '-' '-'      |      |        |
           |-o|  |o---> GND  |   |       |    13|--------+---o CP6-10   On/Off SW
           |-o|  |o----------+---)-------|7     |
           |-o|__|o--------------+-------|8     |
           |                             |      |
           | 24C02        CP6-1 o--------|9   12|------------> GND
           |            Display Clock    |      |
          ===                            |    11|------------o CP6-7    Power LED (bicolour)
          GND             CP6-2 o--------|10    |
                        Temperature      |  5   |
                        Display Data     '------'
                                            |
                                            |
                                           ===
                                           GND

(created by AACircuit v1.28.7 beta 02/28/13 www.tech-chat.de)


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The new PCB is not directly compatible with the original one. The new board has jumpers J2 and J4 while the old board has jumpers J1, J3, and J5. This means that the battery voltage slider switch behaves as an RPM selector on your original PCB, but functions as an ABS switch on your new PCB (as per the manual).

attachments.allvolts.com.au/products/images_large/11998.png

 

     Waeco CoolFreeze CF-110 

   Main PCB (028221 Rev:A) - ABS control section

 Jumpers J2, J4 installed & J1, J3, J5 not installed


   Compressor-C (Common)
        CP2-5
                 
          o
          |
          |
          o
           ) J2
          o
          |    SW2  slider switch
    CP5-3 o    ABS
         /
        /
      o/  o   o  CP5-1,2,4
      |   |   |
   R3 |   |R5 | R4
     .-. .-. .-.
     | | | | | |    R3 = LOW (zero ohm link)
     | | | | | |    R5 = MEDIUM
     '-' '-' '-'    R4 = HIGH
      |___|___|
          |
          o
           ) J4
          o
          |
          |
          o

   Compressor-P (Battery Limit Selection)
        CP2-7


-- Edited by dorian on Saturday 6th of December 2014 09:04:21 PM

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According to the following manual, there is a slider switch for setting the battery protection voltage. It provides three settings -- Low, Med, High. 

http://www.waecofridges.co.uk/pdf/coolfreeze-manual.pdf

The Main PCB has a switch connector (CP5) identified as Active Battery Security (ABS SW2). After examining the circuit, it appears that there are two possible functions for this switch, and these functions are selected by jumpers J1 - J5. 

In fact, contrary to the manual, SW2 on the subject board behaves as an RPM selector, not as an ABS selector. That is, the slider switch selects LOW, MEDIUM, or HIGH compressor RPM when normal mode is active (not Turbo).

The ABS setting is fixed -- the compressor's P terminal (Battery Voltage Limits) is linked to its C terminal (Common).

                   Waeco CoolFreeze CF-110 

              Main PCB (028221 Rev:A) - RPM control section

              Jumpers J1, J3, J5 installed & J2, J4 not installed

                  Compressor-T (RPM select)
                    CP2-6
                 
                      o
                      |
                |-----+----------+----------|
                |     |          |          |
                |     |          |          o
                |     |          |           ) J3
   Emergency    |     |          |          o
      SW3       |     |          |          |    SW2  slider switch
       _/  CP3-1|     |          |    CP5-3 o    ABS
  |--o/  o---o--+     |          |         /
  |----------o--+     |          |        /
           CP3-2|     |          |      o/  o   o  CP5-1,2,4
                |     |          |      |   |   |
                |     |          |   R3 |   |R5 | R4
               .-.   .-.        .-.    .-. .-. .-.
               | |   | |        | |    | | | | | |    R3 = LOW (zero ohm link)
               | |   | |        | |    | | | | | |    R5 = MEDIUM
               '-'   '-'        '-'    '-' '-' '-'    R4 = HIGH (unpopulated)
             R1 |     | R7    R6 |      |___|___|
                |     |          |          |
                |     |          |          o
                |     |          |           ) J1
                |     |          |          o
                |     |          |__________|
                |     |          |
                |     |          |
                |      \|         \|       ___
                |   Q2  |---|   Q1 |------|___|---> U3-2   Normal RPM
                |      <|   |     <|       R10
                |     |     |    |
                |     |     |    |         ___
                |     |     -----)--------|___|---> U3-1   Turbo RPM
                |     |          |         R11
                |-----+----------|
                      |
                      |
                     ===

                  Compressor-C (Common)
                    CP2-5


    Compressor-C  o------|
      CP2-5              |
    (Common)             o
                          ) J5
                         o
                         |
    Compressor-P  o------|
      CP2-7
  (Battery Voltage Limits)


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Update- the short story- found a Control Board at;

http://www.allvolts.com.au/catalogue/3778_item.html?ref_cat_id=FRIDGE-FREEZER-COOLER-WAECO-SPARE-PARTS

 installed, and all the top panel lights work except 'TURBO',  but battery low volts the compressor isn't kicking in.....but no error LED..more later

 



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I thought I posted this reply, but it must've failed.... so extra update at bottom

 Hi Dorian, I was in the middle of isolating each resistor to check them, but had a small interruption from a "light rain shower" here...torrential storm actually!!! I think they are mostly ok, depending on tolerances.. I need to go do a job, so will try and analyze that and reassess later when I get back

It seems something isn't switching, as nothing happens when I do the on/off button, and the only LED that fires up is the 'error'. I think the operating panel (for the most part at least) is ok, and I suspect one or more of the three trannies  (8050S C331), but I tried RS, Jaycar and Prime but they don't seem to be available in Oz, the guy at Jaycar suggested trying BC 639 021. (I understand the difference between these is 80V/1.0A, rather than 20V/1.5A..?)

 I think it's likely it needs a whole new board...??

 cheers

 

Update-  with my extensive knowledge of Transistors and ceramic resonators garnered from a 10 minute internet session, apart from one trannie with a broken leg (Q4), all three tested with readings of ~ 980 (ohms?) between two sets of two of the three pins, with each set having a common (NPN), and only in one direction using the diode function..  so I replaced the one with the broken leg (Q4) with the above BC 639 021, which had a test reading of ~960 ( ?). The Resonator broke off completely, so I found a blue one(same value) at Prime Electronics, but they only had a three pin one which I soldered in and disregarded the centre pin. (gnd?)
 
  So having done all that, nothing really changed, still only runs constant on 24V (to -10C freezer/0C fridge).......
 
I've had a look at results for the WH7016C Thermostat, and there's a few different versions- still processing that one.
 
 
 


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The Danfoss controller's terminals have the following function:

C = Common (ground)
P = Voltage Limits
T = RPM

The error LED is reporting a "battery protection cut-out error". However, a voltage of 0V at the P terminal selects the following operating conditions, so I can't see why the Danfoss controller should be complaining.

At 12V ...

12V cut-out = 9.6V
12V cut-in = 10.9V
max voltage = 17.0V

At 24V ...

24V cut-out = 21.3V
24V cut-in = 22.7V
max voltage = 31.5V

A voltage of 0V at the T terminal selects 2000 RPM. That's the emergency override setting.

In normal operation the main board connects the T terminal to ground via one of two resistors which are switched by transistors Q1 and Q2 (Normal and Turbo speed). The fact that this terminal is sitting at 5V means that the compressor is not being turned on by the main board. Was the On/Off button pressed before the measurements were taken? If so, then this would suggest that either the main board or the display board are faulty.

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 Thanks Debe and Dorian,  had a quick read- so if I find one of those, and ? connect to C,P,T &(D) then I can eliminate Operating panel, and Control Board?

Ive checked the Voltage at the Control Module  (101N0220) see below;- seems every time I reconnect, something different happensthis time the compressor has continued to run on 12v (Emergncy)~ , and I feel immediate cold on the comp. outlet pipe....well for a while..

 Note that with D,C,P, T all disconnected, readings at module pins with 12.V in, are:
 D   0.0        (3.6v @ Wire end)
 C   0.0
 P   4.95
 T   4.95


Input SupplyVoltage
   
            Mains/24v                Doesn't start on normal Inputs)    ~12v/13.3v          

    24v                               24v                                12v                             12v
    Emergency PWR.     Normal Input                   Normal Input               Emergency            
    (-ve)    0.0
    +    27.0v                 27.15v                            13.08v                       12.3v
    +      v                      v                                   V                              v
F            15.0                23.92v                            10.07v                        0.35v
D      3.6-3.9v                 4.05v                              3.67v                        3.68v
C         0.2                      0.0 v                               0.0v                          0.0v

P        0.04                   0.0v (4.95v disconnected)   0.0v                          0.07v/ (4.95v disconnected)   

T        0.2                       4.95v                   4.97-5.01v                    0.22/   (4.95v              )
  
  With T jumped to C @12V, there is only ~0.07v @ T

I'll go have a hunt for a "WH7016C Thermostat Product'                Thanks yet again, duTch



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Guru

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Posts: 1454
Date:

DeBe wrote:

When costs get out of hand these Digital thermostats have been fitted, cost around $15 on Ebay. 


 

Here is the WH7016C Thermostat Product Manual:

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/w/images/8/88/WH7016C_instructions.pdf



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"No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full."

Lucius Cornelius Sulla - died 78 BC 

 



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1454
Date:

I would measure the voltages at the compressor control board's terminal block. That will tell us what the Waeco main board is doing.


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"No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full."

Lucius Cornelius Sulla - died 78 BC 

 

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