Lithium battery charging

Dick0 · Guru

RE: Lithium battery charging

landy · Guru

Thanks for the heads up on that Dicko it,s certainly something else I will have to keep in mind. Just as an aside what brand of battery did you choose and have you been happy with them.
Cheers Dave

TimTim · Guru

landy wrote:
Thanks for the heads up on that Dicko it,s certainly something else I will have to keep in mind. Just as an aside what brand of battery did you choose and have you been happy with them.
Cheers Dave

Dicko has VoltaX batteries now rebranded as VoltX. Im on the road travelling at the moment but will do a post later of a few different brands you may like to consider because Ebay is a minefield.

Tim

landy · Guru

That would be great thank's Tim.
Dave

TimTim · Guru

Hi Dave, An AGM battery can deliver as much power as a LiFePO4 battery but the difference is the voltage level for the state of charge. Even though an AGM is considered to be fully discharged at 10.5V it is recommended that you do not run AGM's below 50%, which is just on 12.0V, because sulphation of the lead plates begins to occur. Then of course you also need to get the batteries charged back up and because of the long absorption time they may not get fully charged. Then things like inverters may have a cutout at 11.5V and also LED lights may begin to flicker at the voltage lower.

With LiFePO4 you can run them down to 10.0V but the good thing is only 9% of the power that can be drawn is below 12.0V so you do not get the same low voltage issues. They also do not have to be charged back up as soon as possible and will quite happily sit there partially discharged. You will in all probability find that a 135Ah battery will be suffice.
Whether you buy one battery now and and another later and even a different make and size does not matter. The battery manufacturers will recommend you don't but there people in the US and Canada who use large banks and progressively add to them without any issues. I have recently added to my batteries some four years later and there are many others that have done the same.

I build my own batteries but recently bought a !00Ah VoltX battery that was on special at $269 and posted about them here because of the good reviews. They are now being sold through Woolworths Marketplace for $388. It is a very nice battery and I capacity tested it at 107Ah.

Most of the Ebay batteries are the same battery with a different label and in all probability you can forget about any warranty as many sellers just disappear and also have multiple seller names. Ther are some good brands Like VoltX that started on Ebay. Can you give us a link to the battery that you are looking at.

Probably the best inexpensive LiFePO4 battery around at the moment is the Wattcycle although I haven't bought one to test myself. They are currently on special but a few months ago they were much cheaper but their popularity has increased.

https://au.wattcycle.com/

Here is a tear down review.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDkJ7Sq21Qw&ab_channel=DIYSolarPowerwithWillProwse

Good luck
Tim

TimTim · Guru

Sorry but you will need to copy and past the links as the system does seem to work at times.

landy · Guru

Hi again Tim, here is a link to one of the batteries I have been looking at on Ebay although it do's seem to be to cheap maybe to cheap .
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/405813821318?_skw=12v+lithium+battery&itmmeta=01JT08ZCJ6FSS261E3Y0SHJKGP&hash=item5e7c637f86:g:xGoAAOSwftNoDdvt&itmprp=enc%253AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w
Another thing that has me curious that I would like to ask you if I am not taking up too much of your time is do you create a conflict running lithium and lead acid in the same circuit, in my case all the time the tugs ignition is on the two lead acids in the car are connected to the caravan through the Anderson plug although they isolate when the ignition is off, if this was not the case and it did not isolate would the lead acid and the lithium clash or cause problems. It's not something I'm considering its just that this thread is challenging a lot of what I have been told about lithium in the past and would just like to better understand it.

Thanks again Tim Dave

-- Edited by landy on Tuesday 29th of April 2025 09:03:01 PM

TimTim · Guru

landy wrote:
Hi again Tim, here is a link to one of the batteries I have been looking at on Ebay although it do's seem to be to cheap maybe to cheap .
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/405813821318?_skw=12v+lithium+battery&itmmeta=01JT08ZCJ6FSS261E3Y0SHJKGP&hash=item5e7c637f86:g:xGoAAOSwftNoDdvt&itmprp=enc%253AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w
Another thing that has me curious that I would like to ask you if I am not taking up too much of your time is do you create a conflict running lithium and lead acid in the same circuit, in my case all the time the tugs ignition is on the two lead acids in the car are connected to the caravan through the Anderson plug although they isolate when the ignition is off, if this was not the case and it did not isolate would the lead acid and the lithium clash or cause problems. It's not something I'm considering its just that this thread is challenging a lot of what I have been told about lithium in the past and would just like to better understand it.

Thanks again Tim Dave

-- Edited by landy on Tuesday 29th of April 2025 09:03:01 PM

Big red flags on both the Seller and the battery but will post details your Friday morning.

Dick0 · Guru

Hi Dave, have a read of the attachment, which may shed some light about your query.

You can do what you propose, and a dual VSR with Ignition Relay and Resettable Fuse would take care of that.

You would have 12V at the vehicle Anderson if and when the vehicle wet batteries are in charged mode, which is automatically taken care of by the VSR.

landy · Guru

Thanks Tim I will look forward to reading what you have to say.
Hi again Dicko wow there is a lot of information there made my head spin but also a lot of common sense idea's. I think though I may of not written or described my question very well the thoughts in my head don't always flow very freely through my fingers biggrin

so to cut to the Chase 1/ is there any ill affects to having the cars alternator charging both lead acid in the car and lithium in the caravan at the same time and will it confuse the cars regulator. (and does it really mater?)

2/ This is just a hypothetical as my tug is wired to disconnect the Andesons plugs with the ignition off . but if this was not the case would the lithium in the van, and the solar charger play nicely with the tugs lead acid.
Cheers Dave confuse

TimTim · Guru

landy wrote:
Hi again Tim, here is a link to one of the batteries I have been looking at on Ebay although it do's seem to be to cheap maybe to cheap .
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/405813821318?_skw=12v+lithium+battery&itmmeta=01JT08ZCJ6FSS261E3Y0SHJKGP&hash=item5e7c637f86:g:xGoAAOSwftNoDdvt&itmprp=enc%253AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w
Another thing that has me curious that I would like to ask you if I am not taking up too much of your time is do you create a conflict running lithium and lead acid in the same circuit, in my case all the time the tugs ignition is on the two lead acids in the car are connected to the caravan through the Anderson plug although they isolate when the ignition is off, if this was not the case and it did not isolate would the lead acid and the lithium clash or cause problems. It's not something I'm considering its just that this thread is challenging a lot of what I have been told about lithium in the past and would just like to better understand it.

Thanks again Tim Dave

-- Edited by landy on Tuesday 29th of April 2025 09:03:01 PM

Hi Dave, I'm back at base a little earlier than expected. The reason I asked about the inverter is to ensure that you are not planning on drawing large current from a singular battery as there are BMS limitations but you will be well and truly under those limitations.

Firstly, looking at your Ebay seller they say they are based in Tasmania and I can tell you now they will not be shipping LiFePO4 batteries from Tasmania to mainland Australia because the cost would be prohibitive.

Secondly, if you look at the reviews i can see there are German and and reviews in other languages so again they are not Australian purchases.

Thirdly, I found a reference to this same seller's name on the DIY Solar Forum supposedly based in Europe selling this particular brand of battery.

Then last but not least is this the same seller with 03 added to their name selling the same battery at a higher price?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/335735251477?

See the initial red flags?

Now for the battery. There is a picture of the battery depicting prismatic cells but no cell manufacturer actually manufactures 135Ah prismatic cells. In all probability the battery either contains either pouch cells or cylindrical cells which is not to say the battery isn't good but the image is misleading and prismatic cells are a later technology.

I have not been able to find any tear downs of the battery or real testing so I can't comment on the quality but to be honest when you are buying at the bottom price in the market then it can be hit and miss.

Here is an example where a battery does not have the stated capacity. He doesn't test it properly but it gives you an idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pKuRR3iTps&ab_channel=EFFICIENTSELF

Here is a review of an Ecoworthy battery you may wish to consider but it is only 100Ah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyRXLWnmrGs&ab_channel=vuaeco

This is the 280Ah battery but gives you and example of the quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZm4fa_GjCM&ab_channel=DIYSolarPowerwithWillProwse

Ebay price is $300

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/205009946168?

There are plenty of people that run LiFePO4 and lead acid or AGM's together and others that prefer to use a DC to DC charger. Before we get into that though, do you have any sort of battery management system in your van or is your Anderson connector on your draw bar connected directly to the caravan battery?

Smiling when you say this thread is challenging what you have previously been told about lithium batteries. Unfortunately, just like in real life you have to sort out the wheat from the chaff. What can be done in the real world and what the manufactures will recommend that you don't do. Fortunately there are people out there that do real world testing and Will with DIY Solar is great and we also have Andy in Off Grid garage.

https://off-grid-garage.com/

Have a look at those two sites and you will learn plenty.

Good luck

Tim

Are We Lost · Guru

A nice write-up Tim.

Also, if you have a closer look you will see the seller is based in China (click on seller name, Visit profile and About). With 150 feedback and several similar seller names, how long do you think the seller will be around for the 10 year warranty?

Dick0 · Guru

135ah Mobi LiFePO4 batteries on Temu. $268.57

Temu | Explore the Latest Clothing, Beauty, Home, Jewelry & More

TimTim · Guru

Thank you Are We Lost. Yeah I could have gone on and on like a broken record but was close to 2am here lol. It looks like the seller is a drop shipper.

If my posts help just one person then they have done their job. smile

landy · Guru

I agree with Are We lost Tim great write up it really is buyer beware, also I have just been chasing reviews on the Mobi brand that Dicko mentioned. And post after post complained about very early battery failure.
As far as a battery management system in the van goes I don't really know the answer to that, all I can see in the van is the solar regulator I pictured in an earlier post and the 240 v charger. I did find time today to put my multi meter across the draw bar Anderson plug thinking it should show 12 volt plus if it was strait to the Battery's, which are fully charged and connected to the solar but to my suprize it was only showing 10.2 volt so at this stage I'm not sure what the go is . Maybe something in the line to stop feed back to the cars batteries or could be a bad connection somewhere. I will look deeper as soon as I get a couple of spare hours during the day.
Cheers Dave

Radar · Guru

Hi Landy

Tim Tim, Dicko.

March 2024 notice my AGM's were getting low in voltage.

Did some hunting around and Jaycar had a special on 120ah lithium ion battery, drop in replacement, right size for my chassis mounted box. 3 short trips from home and we had a problem, Jaycar blamed my solar controller, then after the fitting the new controller we went away again, some thing 3 days in, no battery power, with a little help from another Camper who happen to be a Auto Electrician, specialising in RV solar systems fitment confirmed the battery was at fault.

Jaycar gave us the option of.money back or another battery. 12 months on the battery is working a treat.

I have found the 120ah lithium to be enough power for our mostly off grid camping where as with one 110ah AGM. sometimes in the winter months, it was testing our system, hence why I fitted the second AGM. With the one it's fine.

I like dealing with brick and mortar business, where I believe I can get service and my money back over the counter.

Our weight saving, 2 X 110ah lead batteries= 68 KG's. Running 1 only 120ah Lithium 14 KG's.

AGMs $420 each, lithium $500.

landy · Guru

Hi there Radar What you have done is just what I am trying to achieve so I'm glad to hear it is working well for you.
Landy

landy · Guru

Tim I had another good look at the van today and even dug out the build contract no sight or mention of a battery management system so guess I haven't got one. I do however believe there could be a diode or something between the Anderson plug and van batteries as I cant get a high enough reading across the plug with my multi meter to suggest it is wired direct to the Van batteries. Just for a test I plugged the van into the car and there is no problem with it charging the van batteries so all appears to be good.

TimTim · Guru

Dave take a look near your batteries for any kind of equipment that may be connected which may be preventing the voltage reading at the drawbar. I would be surprised if anything is hidden behind a wall etc. If you post the make and model of your van then perhaps someone else may know how it is wired.

Good luck

Tim

-- Edited by TimTim on Saturday 3rd of May 2025 02:23:19 AM

landy · Guru

Will try to do that tomorrow Tim. I had the van built in 2018, It is a 17 ft 6''Hilltop Feathertop made to my spec. I asked for a wiring drawing when I picked it up but they said because every one they build is a different electrical lay out they could not supply one.

-- Edited by landy on Saturday 3rd of May 2025 10:25:22 PM

-- Edited by landy on Sunday 4th of May 2025 03:18:59 PM

landy · Guru

only thing I found under the Caravan Tim was this overload cut out down near the batteries.I don't know if it made any difference but I broke and then reset it then took some more readings. the batteries were showing 13.9 ( would have been some light on the solar panels) and Anderson plug on A frame which is 7 meters away was at 12.5 I could not follow the complete wiring harness as it wanders in and out behind the cupboards and through the floor on its journey from the draw bar to the battery boxes under the rear of the van. also wondering if you have any feedback on some of the Batteries being sold by Kings 4x4 superstore. Cheers Dave

TimTim · Guru

Hi Dave,

I thought you said that you weren't getting a voltage reading at the draw bar and that's why I thought there may be some equipment installed between the Anderson connector and the batteries but seeing as you have a voltage reading obviously there isn't.

As for King's batteries the reviews have been mixed and it appears plenty of people have had warranty issues. I did buy a solar blanket from them to test one time and promptly took it back and had an argument with a staff member in who had no idea what he was on about. Took two weeks for a refund. Have friends with their solar blankets which do not put out anywhere near the stated output. I recently had a chat with the guy at the local rubbish tip and asked if they have had any lithium batteries dropped off and he said no but they get a lot of their fridges. If you did go for that brand and had a warranty issue then at least you can go in to a physical store and try and address it.

Good luck

Tim

landy · Guru

I wasn't getting A high enough reading at the A frame to start with Tim only just over 9 volt, but after resetting the 50 amp cut out it seems to have fixed it, it is now showing the same as across the battery terminals.
I will search around now for the new battery or two and every thing should be good. A big Thank you to Tim and all the other people that have contributed to my lithium education your all much appreciated .
Cheers Dave

thomas01 · Senior Member

Once again Shane, you appear to be trying to feather your own nest.

You could of at least used a different user name than company you are recommending. If you want to advertise there are better platforms than a forum.

Robert

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

SOUOPower, I have a list of companies that I will NEVER buy from.
You are now on it.

If you want to advertise here, contact the site owner and pay for the privilege like the others, or go away.
Cheers,
Peter

landy · Guru

X 2

Whenarewethere · Guru

X 3

TimTim · Guru

Well I couldn't resist and now have a Wattscycle 100Ah LiFePO4 on the way. I will run some tests on it and let you know what I think. They are still at $276.

https://au.wattcycle.com/products/wattcycle-12v-100ah-group-24-lifepo4-battery

67HR · Senior Member

TimTim wrote:
Well I couldn't resist and now have a Wattscycle 100Ah LiFePO4 on the way. I will run some tests on it and let you know what I think. They are still at $276.
https://au.wattcycle.com/products/wattcycle-12v-100ah-group-24-lifepo4-battery

944811fbf6e526ad5ce076d37b060e446850232ba7bfdb7aa7955888a1809a03.gif

Sorry Tim, couldn't resist..

Looking forward to the test..

TimTim · Guru

Lol 67HR. That's not what my wife would have said if she knew biggrin .