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Post Info TOPIC: WDH


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RE: WDH
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Plain Truth wrote:

basil.JPG


 take your time.


plain truth.jpg



cheers



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A WDH (in effect) is a springy semi-flexible beam between the caravan and its tow vehicle. It levers back up the tow vehicles rear tyres and its front wheels back down.

 

Do not attempt to level the rig

To adjust a WDH, adjust the lowered jockey wheel until the caravan is level. Now measure (and note) the front of the caravan chassiss height from the ground. Then, with the tow vehicle laden and the equivalent weight of driver and passengers on board, lower the caravan onto the tow ball. Again measure the caravans front chassis height from the ground. Adjust WDH bar spring tension so as to correct no more than 50% of that height difference.

Another way of adjusting is to measure the height of the tow vehicles front mudguard. When adjusted correctly, it increases that height by about 50 mm. This is likely to cause the front of the caravan to be about 50 mm lower than when level.

The SAE standard, Performance Requirements for Determining Tow-Vehicle Gross Combination Weight Rating and Trailer Weight Rating, (J2807) quantifies this. The standard used only 50% correction in its main WDH stability testing.

At one time, Hayman Reese in Australia recommended 100% correction. Chief Engineer (Rick McCoy) of its US parent (Cequent), however, has long recommended only 50% correction be used.

The Australian company does not appear to use percentage terms, but its current recommendations seem now to accord with its parent company.
Correcting tow ball mass by 50%  typically results in the caravans nose being lower by about 50 mm.

 

The above is a copy from a Collyn books.

I had a discussion with him on another forum and a couple others a few years ago about using J2807 as a  justification for 50% FALR, pointing out that, SAE in their J2807 testing report had nothing to do with WDHs except that one style of weight distribution hitch without sway control was used as a segement test for calculation of the GCWR and TWR for Vehicles in the USA.

I also concur that Cequent (USA HR) did in fact recommend a 50% maximum FALR on only one model of their weight distribution hitches, none of remainder of their hitches they sold made no reference to the 50% FALR.

In the fairness of comparision I sourced a from a number of WDH manufacturers their installation and setup of their hitches. I found that not one of those companies recommending a 50% FALR, in fact they all suggested 100% restoration.

At the time of that discussion, prior to my research I was open to the suggestion that the reduction maybe a serious consideration, but rather than go to a 50%, I reset my hitch to approximatly 75% which was ½ a link in the chain, on the road test I found the steering lighter and the caravan had greater sway caused by overtaking trucks, at the first opportunity, I stopped and returned the hitch settings to 100% FALR.

 



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Hi, 

What is FALR?

 



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Radar wrote:

Hi, 

What is FALR?

 


 Front Axle Load Return



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Gundog wrote:
Radar wrote:

Hi, 

What is FALR?

 


 Front Axle Load Return


 Thank you.

I did struggle with that.



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Radar wrote:

Hi, 

What is FALR?

 


 Front Axle Load Return



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yobarr wrote:

 Without inferring that it is beyond  your range of abilities, coukd I suggest that you might like to do your own research instead of demanding that I help you?

Simply ask Mr Google "Collyn Rivers" and much i formation is available.

But please don't come back bleating that you can't find what you want, or that you do find what you don't want. 

And at the risk of confusing you, could I point out to you that it was not I who steered this "off topic"?

P.S Have you managed to contact HR to inform them of their misunderstandings regarding the effects of a WDH on towball weight, or are you more intent on continuing to throw  Red Herrings into the discussion, further confusing those who simply are trying to understand their weights?


 What I am interested in is not more red herrings ,but for you to give us your definitive proof that a car becomes lighter as you claim. Instead you try to steer off track to avoid any justification.

If you can't do this vjust admit it.

Alan



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Brenda and Alan wrote:
yobarr wrote:

 Without inferring that it is beyond  your range of abilities, coukd I suggest that you might like to do your own research instead of demanding that I help you?

Simply ask Mr Google "Collyn Rivers" and much i formation is available.

But please don't come back bleating that you can't find what you want, or that you do find what you don't want. 

And at the risk of confusing you, could I point out to you that it was not I who steered this "off topic"?

P.S Have you managed to contact HR to inform them of their misunderstandings regarding the effects of a WDH on towball weight, or are you more intent on continuing to throw  Red Herrings into the discussion, further confusing those who simply are trying to understand their weights?


 What I am interested in is not more red herrings ,but for you to give us your definitive proof that a car becomes lighter as you claim. Instead you try to steer off track to avoid any justification.

If you can't do this vjust admit it.

Alan


 Alan, when most people discuss the weight of a vehicle they are referring to the weight applied by its wheels to the ground.

Most people understand that when a WDH is tensioned, weight is removed from the car's rear axle and distributed to both the car's front axle, and the caravan's axle group.

The car's wheels now are applying less weight to the ground than they were before the WDH was tensioned, while the van's wheels are applying more weight than previously. Car is lighter. Van is heavier.

We don't need such a simple issue confused by mention of mass, weight on moon, moments, or any other gobbledy gook you habitually throw into the discussion in an effort to appear knowledgeable.

All you're doing is confusing those who simply are trying to learn about weights. 

 



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yobarr wrote:

You say that weight must be restored to the car's front axle to "improve the understeer . " but if taking a miserable 150kg (350kg x 0.43%) off the front axle causes these problems, the car simply is too small. Not negotiable.



 we've done the maths.

entertained.jpeg


cheers



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yobarr wrote:


 

 

The car's wheels now are applying less weight to the ground than they were before the WDH was tensioned, while the van's wheels are applying more weight than previously. Car is lighter. Van is heavier.

 

 


 The car is not and cannot be lighter. what is lighter is the load on the towball from the van. When are you going to understand this fact.

Alan



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Brenda and Alan wrote:
yobarr wrote:


 

 

The car's wheels now are applying less weight to the ground than they were before the WDH was tensioned, while the van's wheels are applying more weight than previously. Car is lighter. Van is heavier.

 

 


 The car is not and cannot be lighter. what is lighter is the load on the towball from the van. When are you going to understand this fact.

Alan


La La Land stuff from you again, Alan. Instead of continuing to confuse people who simply are keen to learn perhaps you should visit Hayman Reese and advise them that, for 50 years, they've been mistaken and have been giving false information to caravanners and others?

Na, TOO hard for you I'd say. Back to school, Alan. Cheers

P.S You should know that a WDH can lift a car's rear wheels right off the ground so ALL weight is on front axle and van"s axle.

Now try and tell me that the car still applies the same overall weight to the ground. NOT A CHANCE.



-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 22nd of February 2024 03:24:52 PM

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yobarr wrote

La La Land stuff from you again, Alan. Instead of continuing to confuse people who simply are keen to learn perhaps you should visit Hayman Reese and advise them that, for 50 years, they've been mistaken and have been giving false information to caravanners and others?

Na, TOO hard for you I'd say. Back to school, Alan. Cheers

P.S You should know that a WDH can lift a car's rear wheels right off the ground so ALL weight is on front axle and van"s axle.

Now try and tell me that the car still applies the same overall weight to the ground. NOT A CHANCE.



-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 22nd of February 2024 03:24:52 PM


 seems legit.jpeg


cheers



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yobarr wrote:


La La Land stuff from you again, Alan. Instead of continuing to confuse people who simply are keen to learn perhaps you should visit Hayman Reese and advise them that, for 50 years, they've been mistaken and have been giving false information to caravanners and others?

Na, TOO hard for you I'd say. Back to school, Alan. Cheers

P.S You should know that a WDH can lift a car's rear wheels right off the ground so ALL weight is on front axle and van"s axle.

Now try and tell me that the car still applies the same overall weight to the ground. NOT A CHANCE.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
La La land is where you reside. I have been saying all along that HR is wrong.

As to going back to school, that's where you should be to learn some of that simple physics you like to talk about.

At the point of the rear wheels of the car losing contact with the ground ALL the weight of the car would be on the front wheels.

Now instead of your constant side tracking give us evidence in the form of calculations or physics to try to prove your point. To date you have been unable to do either.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP

Alan

 



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Brenda and Alan wrote:
yobarr wrote:


La La Land stuff from you again, Alan. Instead of continuing to confuse people who simply are keen to learn perhaps you should visit Hayman Reese and advise them that, for 50 years, they've been mistaken and have been giving false information to caravanners and others?

Na, TOO hard for you I'd say. Back to school, Alan. Cheers

P.S You should know that a WDH can lift a car's rear wheels right off the ground so ALL weight is on front axle and van"s axle.

Now try and tell me that the car still applies the same overall weight to the ground. NOT A CHANCE.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
La La land is where you reside. I have been saying all along that HR is wrong.

As to going back to school, that's where you should be to learn some of that simple physics you like to talk about.

At the point of the rear wheels of the car losing contact with the ground ALL the weight of the car would be on the front wheels.

Now instead of your constant side tracking give us evidence in the form of calculations or physics to try to prove your point. To date you have been unable to do either.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP

Alan


Alan, previously I bought and tested a WDH, and I have posted ALL my axle weights before and after it was tensioned. 

Don't have figures on me, but around 70% of the weight that was removed from the rear axle was distributed to tge front axle, with the remaining 30% being distributed to the van's axle group.

Simple stuff. Car got LIGHTER and van got HEAVIER. Do you understand? 

Nah, doubt it, but I can only try. Main reason is to prevent others from being negatively influenced by your ramblings.



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yobarr wrote:


Alan, previously I bought and tested a WDH, and I have posted ALL my axle weights before and after it was tensioned. 

Don't have figures on me, but around 70% of the weight that was removed from the rear axle was distributed to tge front axle, with the remaining 30% being distributed to the van's axle group.

Simple stuff. Car got LIGHTER and van got HEAVIER. Do you understand? 

Nah, doubt it, but I can only try. Main reason is to prevent others from being negatively influenced by your ramblings.


 so the WDH changed the TBW.
i'm just surprised that you didn't bleat "hayman reese".

entertained.jpeg


cheers




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yobarr wrote:
Simple stuff. Car got LIGHTER and van got HEAVIER. Do you understand?

 Yobarr, are you trolling? I am sure you did not mean what you just wrote. That is exactly what Alan has been saying you apparently believe.

Of course the car does not get lighter, or the van heavier. The weight on the wheels changes.

This stupid endless argument is so pointless. Alan provides reasoning, but you can't. If you did then there could be something worth discussing. Neither will ever agree, so why not drop it.



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Are We Lost wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Simple stuff. Car got LIGHTER and van got HEAVIER. Do you understand?

 Yobarr, are you trolling? I am sure you did not mean what you just wrote. That is exactly what Alan has been saying you apparently believe.

Of course the car does not get lighter, or the van heavier. The weight on the wheels changes.

This stupid endless argument is so pointless. Alan provides reasoning, but you can't. If you did then there could be something worth discussing. Neither will ever agree, so why not drop it.


Craig, might I suggest that you now are going out of your way to show that you  know a  bit about weights, but it is only since I started providing advice for the forum that you have attained this ability.

Sometimes you make mistakes that I politely correct for you. No big deal. It's great that you are learning, and I'm happy for you to have your say but could I suggest that you double check your contributions, and that you don't continually and incorrectly challenge my assertions?

You now seem to take great delight in disputing most of what I post, simply to appear to be authoritative.

Had you been reading this thread you should have noted that, in my post at 8.13pm on Feb 21st, I explained exactly what most people deem to be weight. When discussing weight they are referring to the force applied to the ground by their vehicle's  wheels.

No magic formulae. No waffle about mass. No discussion of that vehicle's weight if it were on the moon. No confusing garbage.

No gobbledy gook. No disappearing towball weight. Simple facts.

A WDH reduces the force that a car's wheels apply to the ground, while increasing the force that a van's wheels apply to the ground.

To any thinking person this means that the car is lighter and the van is heavier.   

Plain, simple, indisputable, and easily understood by everybody.

When a WDH is tensioned so high that a car's rear axle leaves the ground ALL weight now is carried on the car's front axle and the van's axle group. No sane person would even contemplate claiming that the force applied to the ground by the car's wheels (weight) has not changed.

 



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yobarr wrote:

Sometimes you make mistakes that I politely correct for you. No big deal. It's great that you are learning, and I'm happy for you to have your say but could I suggest that you double check your contributions, and that you don't continually and incorrectly challenge my assertions?

You now seem to take great delight in disputing most of what I post, simply to appear to be authoritative.



 your bleating doesn't change anything.


entertained.jpeg


cheers



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yobarr wrote:
Are We Lost wrote:

 

Of course the car does not get lighter, or the van heavier. The weight on the wheels changes.

This stupid endless argument is so pointless. Alan provides reasoning, but you can't. If you did then there could be something worth discussing. Neither will ever agree, so why not drop it.


Simple facts.

A WDH reduces the force that a car's wheels apply to the ground, while increasing the force that a van's wheels apply to the ground.  YES!

To any thinking person this means that the car is lighter and the van is heavier.   NO!!

 

 

 


 

A thinking person would know that the weight of a vehicle and caravan cannot change.  That is simple physics.  Though people might query why and how the wheel loads change. My previous workings in this thread have demonstrated how the forces can change and of course we have many examples of weigh bridge readings about the changes.

 

What changes when a WDH is tensioned (causing torque and leverage within the system) is where the support for these weights is applied.

As I think we all agree, a WDH distributes weight from the rear wheels of the vehicle to the vehicle's front wheels and the wheels of the van (trailer). More support for the weight of the vehicles rear axle is given by the vehicle's front axle and by the chassis of the van transferring some extra load to the van's wheels.



-- Edited by watsea on Friday 23rd of February 2024 08:08:10 PM



-- Edited by watsea on Friday 23rd of February 2024 08:10:15 PM



-- Edited by watsea on Friday 23rd of February 2024 08:50:46 PM

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10 pages long, some people can still not/won't be convince

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dogbox wrote:

10 pages long, some people can still not/won't be convince


 Don't I know it! Sometimes I tire of talking to a wall, but I persist with presenting the facts because I despair newbies, and other  longer-term members, being negatively influenced, to their detriment, by the rubbish that some people post.

There is little doubt that these members have good intentions, and genuinely believe that they're correct, but where safety is concerned it is vital that any supplied information be correct.

We still haven't been told the outcome of their meeting with Hayman Reese where they were to advise Hayman Reese that, after 50 years designing, manufacturing and marketing WDHs, HR still don't know what they're talking about.

Surely this meeting has taken  place? Nah, didn't think so, unless maybe in LaLa Land? Cheers

 



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Thought I would check this topic out again, which started on the 27th May. I think if you are travelling around OZ, and tangled in this topic you must be bored, time to head home. It appears to me a lot of people are travelling because that is the done thing to do (woke thing to do) and are living a poor life. I feal for you. Get out and do a bit, dust the tennis racquet, push bike or fishing rod, enjoy your travels.

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yobarr wrote:

We still haven't been told the outcome of their meeting with Hayman Reese where they were to advise Hayman Reese that, after 50 years designing, manufacturing and marketing WDHs, HR still don't know what they're talking about.



 well bleating "hayman reese" is certainly convenient.


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cheers



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Still no data Yobarr, just same old same old.

Speaking of meetings have you had a meeting with a high school physics teacher who could set you straight on what mass is ,what weight is and what the relationship is between mass and weight on earths surface.

Alan



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ADMIN.

Can I respectfully make a suggestion.....time to call it a day on this thread.....it's just a slanging match.

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yobarr wrote:

No magic formulae. No waffle about mass. No discussion of that vehicle's weight if it were on the moon. No confusing garbage.

No gobbledy gook. No disappearing towball weight. Simple facts.



 too lazy to do your homework?
still feel the need to stay relevant?
then maybe bleating "hayman reese' is for you.


entertained.jpeg


cheers



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montie wrote:

ADMIN.

Can I respectfully make a suggestion.....time to call it a day on this thread.....it's just a slanging match.


 Most certainly I agree with you Montie. For some people their biggest asset is ignorance. Cheers



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Brenda and Alan wrote:

Still no data Yobarr, just same old same old.

Speaking of meetings have you had a meeting with a high school physics teacher who could set you straight on what mass is ,what weight is and what the relationship is between mass and weight on earths surface.

Alan





still waiting to hear what your qualification are.

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yobarr wrote:
montie wrote:

ADMIN.

Can I respectfully make a suggestion.....time to call it a day on this thread.....it's just a slanging match.


 Most certainly I agree with you Montie. For some people their biggest asset is ignorance. Cheers


 while bleating "hayman reese"


entertained.jpeg


cheers



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