Is the world going crazy.

dorian · Guru

Is the world going crazy.

Possum3 · Guru

Bicyclecamper wrote:
Not everybody identifies as just either Male or female, and until you know, learn and understand there are differences in the sexes of people, you cannot really make uninformed comments like above, because you just don't know anything about it. It just comes across as discrimination.

Well said - from a knowledgeable point of view.

Gundog · Guru

Here's the problem the media and other sections of the community instantly brand anyone who speaks up for women's rights as anti-transgender.

All this has happened because the LGBTQ+ with the support of the left and the woke want to control, the narrative and belittle the norm like religious rights women's rights anti men etc.

When it comes to sport, unless its a mixed even if you are not an actual gender the sport is for, then keep out of it.

TheHeaths · Guru

Bicyclecamper wrote:
This was a massive thing for me to "OUT" myself, on such a public forum. I have always kept quiet about it since finding out at age 19. I wouldn't have brought it up, but I didn't like what I was seeing in the comments here, every individual has their own opinions on various matters, whether I like them or not. So I just hope, you people don't treat me any differently to the way I was treated in the past. I will always have my own opinion on matters of the heart like this, and will always call people out if I think their opinion is wrong or misguided.

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Monday 27th of March 2023 10:19:41 AM

Thanks Ric.

Im so glad to hear you have had support through your life, wish you well and assure you, as we have family experience, of no change in my opinion of you or your contributions.

dorian · Guru

Gundog wrote:
Here's the problem the media and other sections of the community instantly brand anyone who speaks up for women's rights as anti-transgender.
All this has happened because the LGBTQ+ with the support of the left and the woke ...

The conservative side of politics in this country is distancing itself from these women's rights / anti-transgender speakers, so it's not purely a left/woke phenomenon. I suggest you direct your concerns to your preferred conservative politician. ISTR that the Libs silenced one of their own MPs when she tried to speak out against transgender athletes in women's sport. In fact I think she is facing expulsion.

Gundog · Guru

dorian wrote:
Gundog wrote:
Here's the problem the media and other sections of the community instantly brand anyone who speaks up for women's rights as anti-transgender.
All this has happened because the LGBTQ+ with the support of the left and the woke ...
The conservative side of politics in this country is distancing itself from these women's rights / anti-transgender speakers, so it's not purely a left/woke phenomenon. I suggest you direct your concerns to your preferred conservative politician. ISTR that the Libs silenced one of their own MPs when she tried to speak out against transgender athletes in women's sport. In fact I think she is facing expulsion.

The Victorian liberal leader is a moderate (wet) which is the left side of the party.

deverall11 · Guru

Years ago, make that decades ago, those that were deemed to not be 'normal' were either put in institutions,
were given electric shock therapy or killed. I knew of a gynecologist who worked in a public hospital who
informed me that babies delivered that were 'borderline' were not given all the attention required to keep
the alive. The animal kingdom does this. This behaviour would seriously be frowned upon in 2023.
I would like to think we have moved on from this sort of behaviour. Yes the LGBTQ community is quite vocal
these days as they have found a new 'freedom'. Eventually they will settle down. Media does not help here,
as always.
This is also a shock to the dinosaurs. I would bet any money they have NOT experienced having a child who
is confused about their sex. If they did they more then likely would not air the sorts of views on here.
I did ask a doctor to explain what is it that makes a person gay. The reply indicated it is a biological
factor. So to all of you out there who firmly have antiquated opinions on LGBTQ, would you feel the
same way if one of those was your child? Perhaps some would.

Aussie1 · Guru

Gundog wrote:
Here's the problem the media and other sections of the community instantly brand anyone who speaks up for women's rights as anti-transgender.
All this has happened because the LGBTQ+ with the support of the left and the woke want to control, the narrative and belittle the norm like religious rights women's rights anti men etc.
When it comes to sport, unless its a mixed even if you are not an actual gender the sport is for, then keep out of it.

Agree. And would also add my NO along with your new identity, well done. Some balance was clearly needed here.

dorian · Guru

deverall11 wrote:
This is also a shock to the dinosaurs. I would bet any money they have NOT experienced having a child who
is confused about their sex. If they did they more then likely would not air the sorts of views on here.
I did ask a doctor to explain what is it that makes a person gay. The reply indicated it is a biological
factor. So to all of you out there who firmly have antiquated opinions on LGBTQ, would you feel the
same way if one of those was your child? Perhaps some would.

It's easy to categorise this thread as anti-trans, but the opening post is all about a specific aspect, namely biological males competing against females. I think you need to examine what was written rather than making generalisations about the author's unstated overall agenda. AIUI, the world athletics association has deemed that transgender women who have been through puberty will be ineligible to compete in women's sport, so there seems to have been some progress on this issue at official levels. Hopefully, rational minds will be able to reach a compromise that suits all parties. As you say, things are still settling down.

Southern Cruizer · Senior Member

Bicyclecamper wrote:
This was a massive thing for me to "OUT" myself, on such a public forum. I have always kept quiet about it since finding out at age 19. I wouldn't have brought it up, but I didn't like what I was seeing in the comments here, every individual has their own opinions on various matters, whether I like them or not. So I just hope, you people don't treat me any differently to the way I was treated in the past. I will always have my own opinion on matters of the heart like this, and will always call people out if I think their opinion is wrong or misguided.

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Monday 27th of March 2023 10:19:41 AM

I have never met you, probably will never meet you but at the end of the day I treat you for who you are, not anything else. But saying what you have openly on a public forum, I won't only shake your hand once but twice and slap you on the back every time I come across you if it ever happens. I admire you

RickJ · Senior Member

Yes, the world is going crazy and unfortunately it appears that Australia is a leader in these attention seeking revolutions generated by the woke.

This suggests that gender inequality is just another quest to create division.

I would not want or expect any female member of my family or friends have to compete in sport against a person of doubtful gender.

If there really are that many of these subjects around and we feel that as a cry for equality, we need to have them display their prowess in sport then we should be creating a new division of competitors and that should keep the woke busy deciding who in the new group will be competing in the new division.

dorian · Guru

I wanted to find out what the recent "anti-trans rallies" were all about. Are the media correct to label them in this way? It seems that the activists are framing their rallies as protecting the rights of biological females.

https://www.binary.org.au/australian_let_women_speak_tour

The events are attended by men and women from all backgrounds who want to protect and promote biological reality. Women's sex-based rights must be upheld for a safe, dignified and fair society to function.

Women who share come from all along the political spectrum, ethnic backgrounds, socio-economic backgrounds; from all faiths an none. What unites is that women are adult human females -- not a costume, not a feeling or a drug to be dependent on.

These are the current campaigns:

https://www.binary.org.au/campaigns

"Keep blokes out of women's sport!" is a petition asking various football clubs to reverse their decisions to allow biological males to participate in women's sport.

There are three other petitions asking NSW, Tasmania and Albanese to "protect children from gender clinics" and to allow parents to "talk [their] child out of pursuing puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones or sex-change surgery". Such discussions will be criminalised by pending legislation in NSW and Tasmania.

It seems to me that the media are labelling this activism as something hateful and sinister whereas at face value it looks like the government is trying to interfere with parents trying to bring up their children. Are young children capable of understanding the consequences of these life altering treatments and surgeries? These are very contentious issues. Do the activists have a valid point?

"The government -- including woke teachers and doctors -- has no right to tell you what you can and can't tell your kids.

It's time to stand up to the transgender activists who want opposition to their ideology to be made a crime.

They aren't fighting for 'equal rights' -- they want to take away your rights."

RickJ · Senior Member

Many parents have to make decisions for their children.
This is what parenting is all about.

To have media and political influence in this decision making is not in the interests of any family unit.
Some parents might use the division as a cop out and hand the decision to a child.
These parents are the reason we should have sterilisation of those that refuse to be responsible for raising children.

As mentioned above the political support to some and not others is creating a very dangerous situation.
To remove a voted member from parliament due to her views is not democratic if not decided by the voters who elected her.

A daughter might stand against Tony aBbott appearing in budgie smugglers in a street rally.
She has no control over others who appear in support of Tony putting his pants back on. They may come from many varying walks of life.

The media could easily make a beat up of that situation should one of the protestors be a Nazi or any other objector.

The political party and its leader who takes the media opinion and dismisses the protesting member is actually just a very weak example of our political system today.

No voted member should be removed by a party leader unless they have broken a law of the country or state.

deverall11 · Guru

dorian wrote:
deverall11 wrote:
This is also a shock to the dinosaurs. I would bet any money they have NOT experienced having a child who
is confused about their sex. If they did they more then likely would not air the sorts of views on here.
I did ask a doctor to explain what is it that makes a person gay. The reply indicated it is a biological
factor. So to all of you out there who firmly have antiquated opinions on LGBTQ, would you feel the
same way if one of those was your child? Perhaps some would.
It's easy to categorise this thread as anti-trans, but the opening post is all about a specific aspect, namely biological males competing against females. I think you need to examine what was written rather than making generalisations about the author's unstated overall agenda. AIUI, the world athletics association has deemed that transgender women who have been through puberty will be ineligible to compete in women's sport, so there seems to have been some progress on this issue at official levels. Hopefully, rational minds will be able to reach a compromise that suits all parties. As you say, things are still settling down.

Yes you are right, off topic. Commenting on comments made. I should know better.

Cuppa · Guru

This suggests that gender inequality is just another quest to create division.

Why would anyone think that the aim of folk speaking out in favour of transgender rights is intended to create division?

That would be a complete antithesis of anything which would make sense. Creating division would be the complete opposite of what I imagine they want, which is acceptance. To believe otherwise is to believe those who really do want to create division & are trying to do so at every opportunity.

Take the recent anti-trans rally in Melbourne.

I saw it as just another excuse by the extreme right, complete with the prominent neo-nazi attendance & imported right wing anti-trans speaker to find & exploit division wherever they can. Without that gathering, & others like them there would be no division being created. It seems it is their default strategy to create & exploit division by blaming others.

Somalis, arabs, homosexuals, aboriginals, jews, muslims etc etc. Always about directing hatred at the expense of minority groups, especially those without a voice to defend themselves. They don't seem to care about making the lives of others a misery, & are quite happy to twist things, in this instance to suggest that women generally are under threat by the existence of transgender people. It is cynical manipulation. Why any of us, men or women should be threatened by the existence of relatively small numbers of transgender folk is a mystery to me.

Many folk harbour concerns about what they don't understand. What we are seeing at the moment is no different to the common gay bashing a few decades ago, being exploited & stirred up by dangerous people who will sow discord wherever they can in an attempt to disrupt. It is they who cause division, not the people they make their blaming targets.

One further comment on a view expressed here, not whispered, but in public!

This comment "These parents are the reason we should have sterilisation of those that refuse to be responsible for raising children." If seriously made, it is probably as close to the sort of arguments made by Hitler's Nazi regime to justify the holocaust as I have seen anywhere in modern times. Who here is worthy of being the decision maker as to what constitutes 'responsible' when forced sterilisation is the potential outcome? Easy to blurt out but really I think we need to seriously take stock of what is being suggested here. If this is the sort of thinking behind the anti-transgender 'movement' we should all be worried. Who will be next? Fat people, thin people, the elderly & infirm, the mentally ill, those without the correct blue eyes & blond hair..........it's a very slippery slope once such intolerance is allowed to gain any sort of momentum.

-- Edited by Cuppa on Monday 27th of March 2023 06:47:42 PM

RickJ · Senior Member

Well I guess I am now marked for expulsion from this site.

The blue quote was out of complete context.
Context needs to be analysed from both sides.

This is what was actually said:

To have media and political influence in this decision making is not in the interests of any family unit.
Some parents might use the division as a cop out and hand the decision to a child.
These parents are the reason we should have sterilisation of those that refuse to be responsible for raising children.

As for the first quote all of these woke anti this and anti that, DOES cause division in the community and in the entire country.

Words spewed from one side do not make these new actions correct.

My views.

RickJ · Senior Member

RickJ wrote:
Yes, the world is going crazy and unfortunately it appears that Australia is a leader in these attention seeking revolutions generated by the woke.

This suggests that gender inequality is just another quest to create division.

I would not want or expect any female member of my family or friends have to compete in sport against a person of doubtful gender.

If there really are that many of these subjects around and we feel that as a cry for equality, we need to have them display their prowess in sport then we should be creating a new division of competitors and that should keep the woke busy deciding who in the new group will be competing in the new division.

Just so that other members do see where I am coming from please re read my first contribution to this topic.

All the words of gender problems are brought about for what reason.

I for one can not think of one reason why we should tolerate or even consider having male genetic sports people competing against female genetic sports people.

I would be happy to hear any valid reason why this should be permitted and tolerated.

I would be happy to hear why for any reason this is not brought about for any other reason but to create yet another divisive argument.

Sarco Harris · Senior Member

Bicyclecamper wrote:
This was a massive thing for me to "OUT" myself, on such a public forum. I have always kept quiet about it since finding out at age 19. I wouldn't have brought it up, but I didn't like what I was seeing in the comments here, every individual has their own opinions on various matters, whether I like them or not. So I just hope, you people don't treat me any differently to the way I was treated in the past. I will always have my own opinion on matters of the heart like this, and will always call people out if I think their opinion is wrong or misguided.

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Monday 27th of March 2023 10:19:41 AM

So if an opinion doesn't agree with your opinion Bicyclecamper, that opinion is is wrong or misguided and therefore you "must call people out" on it?

To me, everyone is equally entitled to hold an opinion. If that doesn't agree with my opinion, so be it, they are entitled to their opinion, I accept that that is their opinion, and while I may disagree, I am not going to :"call them out" on it because, like me they are entitled to have an opinion.

In relation to the topic title, I feel that the world went crazy quite some years ago!

Cuppa · Guru

RickJ wrote:
Well I guess I am now marked for expulsion from this site.

The blue quote was out of complete context.
Context needs to be analysed from both sides.

This is what was actually said:

To have media and political influence in this decision making is not in the interests of any family unit.
Some parents might use the division as a cop out and hand the decision to a child.
These parents are the reason we should have sterilisation of those that refuse to be responsible for raising children.
As for the first quote all of these woke anti this and anti that, DOES cause division in the community and in the entire country.
Words spewed from one side do not make these new actions correct.
My views.

I doubt you have done anything to result in expulsion, but re-quoting yourself to provide fuller context makes no difference to what you said. To have said the parents, in your view, were irresponsible would I suggest have been enough. I think you have been been probably reading too many extreme views on far right wing web sites. At least that's how your posts on this topic read

You may have noted that I didn't include your name in the quote. Of course I knew anyone who wanted to could check who had written it, but my focus was intended to be what was said , not who said it. Words like that are beyond any individualising, & it was that I wanted to highlight. Repeating it hasn't made it any better.

Cuppa · Guru

Sarco Harris wrote:
Bicyclecamper wrote:
This was a massive thing for me to "OUT" myself, on such a public forum. I have always kept quiet about it since finding out at age 19. I wouldn't have brought it up, but I didn't like what I was seeing in the comments here, every individual has their own opinions on various matters, whether I like them or not. So I just hope, you people don't treat me any differently to the way I was treated in the past. I will always have my own opinion on matters of the heart like this, and will always call people out if I think their opinion is wrong or misguided.

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Monday 27th of March 2023 10:19:41 AM
So if an opinion doesn't agree with your opinion Bicyclecamper, that opinion is is wrong or misguided and therefore you "must call people out" on it?
To me, everyone is equally entitled to hold an opinion. If that doesn't agree with my opinion, so be it, they are entitled to their opinion, I accept that that is their opinion, and while I may disagree, I am not going to :"call them out" on it because, like me they are entitled to have an opinion.

I may be misunderstanding your intent Sarco, but it looks to me that you have just done to bicyclecamper what you have criticised him for doing?

RickJ · Senior Member

I beg your pardon, my purpose of requoting my post was to gain the context.

I must admire your absolute perfection in anything you care to comment on.

Some of us may remember your accusation that all Australians were responsible for murdering aboriginals in another topic but none of the members can see that now because it was conveniently removed.

Nothing is ever what it may appear to be.

Just relax and enjoy the forum without building a podium.

Are We Lost · Guru

Cuppa wrote:

I may be misunderstanding your intent Sarco, but it looks to me that you have just done to bicyclecamper what you have criticised him for doing?

Cuppa you seem to thrive on encouraging divisive responses on here. Is closing threads your agenda as has been suggested by others in the past?

Bicyclecamper said "I will always have my own opinion on matters of the heart like this, and will always call people out if I think their opinion is wrong or misguided."

I respect his post for saying how he feels, although maybe the words "called out" could have been better chosen. Sarco Harris is pointing out that those words signify more than a disagrement of opinion, and I believe his response was quite valid.

So instead of continuing on the path of bickering, how about we let Bicyclecamper's words stand and not weaken them by taking this discussion further off track until yet another thread gets closed.

Aussie1 · Guru

Please don't knock Cuppa to much, his contribution on posts just encourages folks decisions to vote NO. Go Cuppa.

dorian · Guru

I think it's unfair to impugn the motives of the rally organisers. Some may indeed be hateful bigots, but we can only go by what they have said and done, not by what they may be thinking.

Their stance against intrusion by government into the family unit is an understandable one, as is their stance against "blokes in women's sport". In fact there are clear parallels in Rugby Australia's "Size for Age" policy.

Rugby Australia unveils Size for Age policy for junior players:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-16/rugby-au-to-move-junior-players-between-age-grades/9455436

Now read the Union's official position, and then re-imagine it in a transgender context.

"The changes we have made with our size and age guidelines are aimed at making the game safer and more enjoyable for all participants, while staying true to the value that rugby is a game for people of all shapes and sizes," Clark said.

"The best rugby is when players of similar physical development, skill and ability are playing against each other.

"It's the most fun, you get the best skill development, and the players want to keep playing."

As for the Nazis who disrupted the rally, the organisers have denounced them. What more can they do? They were gatecrashers, not welcome guests.

Cuppa · Guru

RickJ wrote:

Some of us may remember your accusation that all Australians were responsible for murdering aboriginals in another topic but none of the members can see that now because it was conveniently removed.

That is a ridiculous accusation. If that really is your memory then you you are confabulating. I suspect however that you are not that far gone, & that you seek to rewrite history.

RickJ · Senior Member

No attempt to rewrite history from me.

I have been sent a copy of the actual posts with the banter from other members as well.

I have no intention to repost your comments. If the admin considered it offensive then it was, and should just be left there.

As was mentioned you do thrive on having topics locked and removed.

I said above,

*Just relax and enjoy the forum without building a podium.*

dorian · Guru

https://www.standingforwomen.com/events

The "Let Women Speak" rally that was planned for Wellington, NZ on March 26 has been "cancelled due to credible threats on life". Even the Nazi gatecrashers in Melbourne didn't go that far.

The world is indeed crazy.

Here is a view from the right:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/03/25/the-sheilas-will-not-be-silenced/

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/03/27/we-must-confront-this-woke-misogyny/

Another video, purportedly of the same event, shows a grey-haired woman being punched in the face by what looks very much like a blokes fist. Another shows men gleefully knocking through security barriers. Who were they running towards? Who were they raining fists and spit and insults down upon? A group of largely older women, there to peacefully air their concerns about gender ideology, according to eye-witness accounts. Amid the melee, Auckland police were nowhere to be seen.

As I see it, both sides of the debate are encumbered by violent extremists. Spokespeople on both sides need to denounce these lowlifes.

But having said that, Spiked and other right wing outlets are stoking the flames by mischaracterising the actions and words of the participants. For example, Spiked refers to these thugs as misogynists when they really are just thugs, targeting those who disagree with them, rather than universal haters of women.

Spiked also makes this absurd accusation:

On Thursday, Tasmanian Green Party senator Nick McKim referred to Keen and her ilk as trans-exclusionary right-wing dropkicks. The phrase dropkick and punt is Aussie rhyming slang for womens genitalia.

They then repeat it here, albeit more explicitly:

We also need to call out the various cretins who have put a target on these womens backs, from New Zealand TV station Newshub, which deployed absurd tactics to smear Keen as far right ahead of the Auckland rally, to Australian senator Nick McKim, who called Keen and her supporters c**** in Aussie rhyming slang,

I can imagine how this mistranslation has been received by their readers, except of course their Australian ones.

Santa · Guru

RickJ wrote:
No attempt to rewrite history from me.

I have been sent a copy of the actual posts with the banter from other members as well.

I have no intention to repost your comments. If the admin considered it offensive then it was, and should just be left there.

As was mentioned you do thrive on having topics locked and removed.

I said above,

*Just relax and enjoy the forum without building a podium.*

I tend to agree with your comments Rick.

I seldom engage in controversial topics (not worth the angst) however do tend to watch these threads with interest.

There does seem to be a small hardcore of posters that will argue black is white, for the express purpose of getting a rise out of others, this online behavior serves no useful purpose, not sure why there is a compulsion to engage in this manner other than to promote conflict/argument.

Mein · Senior Member

Why did the trans man only eat salads?

Because he was a herbefore!

Cuppa · Guru

Mein wrote:
Why did the trans man only eat salads?
Because he was a herbefore!