Aircon with lithium

Whenarewethere · Guru

RE: Aircon with lithium

Mike Harding · Guru

Jaahn wrote:
Mike it is not just an energy equation to a person in the street, do not undermine a good learning opportunity for people here not as tec savvy as yourself. I found it useful and I know quite a bit.

I wasn't referring to the video, why did you assume I was? On pay by byte internet I rarely watch videos.

-- Edited by Mike Harding on Sunday 8th of January 2023 06:16:19 PM

Bobdown · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
On 3 November I wasted my time answering about Sola inverters & said use Eaton inverters as they are better quality.

I had no idea that the person was talking about solaR.

A complete waste of time simply because a word lacking its fifth letter.

Your nitpicking WAWT, there are sola lights, sola power, sola energy, sola heating etc. Just like Rola roof racks, most people can read between the lines.

Mike Harding · Guru

Fuhxqfi mu ixekbt qbb mhyju yd setu? Jxud fuefbu sekbt qdimuh yd setu qdt dedu ev ki mekbt kdtuhijqdt mxqj yi weydw ed.

Y xqlu de yiikui myjx ifubbydw eh whqccqjysqb uhhehi rkj Y te xqlu qd yiiku myjx ytyeji mxe tubyruhqjubo qdt sediyijudjbo sehhkfj jxu Udwbyix bqdwkqwu.

Whenarewethere · Guru

I think the real problem is that there isn't a solaR panel emoji.

Bobdown · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Fuhxqfi mu ixekbt qbb mhyju yd setu? Jxud fuefbu sekbt qdimuh yd setu qdt dedu ev ki mekbt kdtuhijqdt mxqj yi weydw ed.
Y xqlu de yiikui myjx ifubbydw eh whqccqjysqb uhhehi rkj Y te xqlu qd yiiku myjx ytyeji mxe tubyruhqjubo qdt sediyijudjbo sehhkfj jxu Udwbyix bqdwkqwu.

Nice Klingon Mike, but don't appreciate the swear words at me.

Good video StreetsAhead, don't think it would use a lot of bytes to scroll the main bits, Mike

Mike Harding · Guru

There are no swear words at you or anyone else Bob.

It's just a perfectly clear variation on standard English, what's the problem?

TimTim · Guru

Lighten up guys and gals. Maids has been let out of the naughty corner smile .

-- Edited by TimTim on Sunday 8th of January 2023 09:57:07 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

Bobdown wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
Fuhxqfi mu ixekbt qbb mhyju yd setu? Jxud fuefbu sekbt qdimuh yd setu qdt dedu ev ki mekbt kdtuhijqdt mxqj yi weydw ed.
Y xqlu de yiikui myjx ifubbydw eh whqccqjysqb uhhehi rkj Y te xqlu qd yiiku myjx ytyeji mxe tubyruhqjubo qdt sediyijudjbo sehhkfj jxu Udwbyix bqdwkqwu.
Nice Klingon Mike, but don't appreciate the swear words at me.
Good video StreetsAhead, don't think it would use a lot of bytes to scroll the main bits, Mike

There are no asterisk words, but Google translation came up with:

I'm not sure what to do, but I'm sure I'll be able to do it. I'm not sure what to do, but I'm sure I'll be able to do it.

nomadz · Veteran Member

Hi maids,

We have 400a Lithium and 390w solar.

Our rooftop air con is a Houghton Belair and non inverter.

You mention yours is an older Air Command. If earlier than an Ibis 2, it is probably non inverter and also probably not a soft start.

After market soft starters are available for around $300 plus installation. We have one in our air con. See sales.au@hypereng.com

When starting with 100% charge, we can run for up to 3 hours off the 2000w Projecta inverter.

This would leave us at about 75-80% discharged.

The main problem is not the running but the replacing of the power used.

Regards,

Ian

Bobdown · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
Bobdown wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
Fuhxqfi mu ixekbt qbb mhyju yd setu? Jxud fuefbu sekbt qdimuh yd setu qdt dedu ev ki mekbt kdtuhijqdt mxqj yi weydw ed.
Y xqlu de yiikui myjx ifubbydw eh whqccqjysqb uhhehi rkj Y te xqlu qd yiiku myjx ytyeji mxe tubyruhqjubo qdt sediyijudjbo sehhkfj jxu Udwbyix bqdwkqwu.
Nice Klingon Mike, but don't appreciate the swear words at me.
Good video StreetsAhead, don't think it would use a lot of bytes to scroll the main bits, Mike
There are no asterisk words, but Google translation came up with:

I'm not sure what to do, but I'm sure I'll be able to do it. I'm not sure what to do, but I'm sure I'll be able to do it.

Nothing like that WAWT

Mike Harding · Guru

I thought Dorian would have got it by now; but maybe he's not reading this thread?

yobarr · Guru

Bobdown wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
On 3 November I wasted my time answering about Sola inverters & said use Eaton inverters as they are better quality.

I had no idea that the person was talking about solaR.

A complete waste of time simply because a word lacking its fifth letter.
Your nitpicking WAWT, there are sola lights, sola power, sola energy, sola heating etc. Just like Rola roof racks, most people can read between the lines.

Nitpicking Eh? Bit rich, coming from a person who has an apparent difficulty readind a script of more than two continuous lines, the word highlighted above presumably is a substitute for the words "you're"? (You are) Cheers

P.S Hi Bob. As a resident of the local area, have you any information about last week's accident at Narrikup that involved a caravan, now destroyed, and a triple Roadtrain that rolled, losing its load of grain? And "No", the Roadtrain involved was not the Roadtrain that I drive. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 9th of January 2023 06:11:45 PM

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Hi maids,
Cuppa has touched on my thoughts. Seeing you're from Perth, where & when are you thinking of going to? Do you need an air conditioner? Are you planning on heading north after the end of September?

The majority of my friends on here (I think I have some) & family will rarely travel north of Toowoomba after September because they think it's too hot, too humid. At the moment it is but if you restrict your travel to the cooler months, the only reason you'd need an air conditioner would be to keep up with the "Jonses" - my apologies to any here! Here in Townsville at the moment it's a warm 31 degrees, feels like 33 with 75% humidity. The minimum temp last night was 26 degrees, humidity was 90% & it wasn't raining. However in your winter, most of the good places are overrun with southerners or back packers! It can be difficult to get a car park in favourite locations!

Without knowing what model your VW Camper is, I'd assume you wouldn't be heading too far off road - especially in recent models. The older 60s-80s Kombis were very off-road capable, without experience & just looking at ground clearance, I certainly wouldn't go too far in the newer ones. And while it's nice to have all the mod cons, we all (now) have to consider weight, something that I admit didn't worry me in the past. All this GVM, ATM, Ball Mass happened after I bought our current van!!
Batteries, solar panels, chargers, inverters, etc all weigh something & if something goes wrong on a rough road, could you leave some of it behind to shed weight? Weight can cause dramas, we all know. I did hear of a bloke in western Qld who threw his Engel fridge out because he thought it had broken. It wasn't the fridge that failed - it was the battery that failed possibly due to corrugations(?) in six months! You often can't get warranty service in some remote places or you might have to wait quite some time.

I would suggest you have a small fan heater (or a good doona) for cold nights & one, possibly two small Sirocco or Caframo 12v fans (see RTM - Road Tech Marine) for warmer nights. Remember in a lot of hot places during the day can have very cool nights eg Alice Springs, etc.

Bobdown · Guru

yobarr wrote:

P.S Hi Bob. As a resident of the local area, have you any information about last week's accident at Narrikup that involved a caravan, now destroyed, and a triple Roadtrain that rolled, losing its load of grain? And "No", the Roadtrain involved was not the Roadtrain that I drive. Cheers

A bit sketchy Yobarr, actually went past it today on the way to Albany and back.

It happened in an overtaking lane, and from what I can gather, maybe the caravan driver pulled back into the left lane too close to the truck he was overtaking, and the truck has smashed into the van.

Or the caravan driver has lost it going too fast and the van has fishtailed into the truck. Either way, the van was totally wrecked, the tug was untouched and upright, the truck had front end damage and the driver was taken to Albany Hospital for a checkup.

The couple in tug were unhurt. Know nothing about the triple Roadtrain.......Cheers Bob

yobarr · Guru

Bobdown wrote:
yobarr wrote:

P.S Hi Bob. As a resident of the local area, have you any information about last week's accident at Narrikup that involved a caravan, now destroyed, and a triple Roadtrain that rolled, losing its load of grain? And "No", the Roadtrain involved was not the Roadtrain that I drive. Cheers
A bit sketchy Yobarr, actually went past it today on the way to Albany and back.
It happened in an overtaking lane, and from what I can gather, maybe the caravan driver pulled back into the left lane too close to the truck he was overtaking, and the truck has smashed into the van.
Or the caravan driver has lost it going too fast and the van has fishtailed into the truck. Either way, the van was totally wrecked, the tug was untouched and upright, the truck had front end damage and the driver was taken to Albany Hospital for a checkup.
The couple in tug were unhurt. Know nothing about the triple Roadtrain.......Cheers Bob

Thanks Bob. The news in the UHF was that it was a triple. I won't name the company, but he carts with us in to Albany Port, and the Channel 7 news showed at least one trailer RSup, but I caught only the last part of the broadcast.

Damned caravan pilots with no idea. We get them all the time, dawdling along in 100kmh zones at 75-80kmh, seemingly oblivious to queues of traffic following them. UNTIL there's an overtaking lane. Then it's pedal to the metal, and they're GONE, but only until the lane ends. Then it's back to their 75-80kmh. Dipsticks. Cheers

P.S Since they're inherently more stable, perhaps DOG trailers would be a solution? No. Given that most caravanners have little idea to no idea how to reverse a PIG trailer the DOG trailer would be a definite No-NO. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 9th of January 2023 06:43:37 PM

Bobdown · Guru

Had a quick look on the Net and it looks like a B Double. Looks like Ford Ranger sitting on the road with a pile of rubble still attached.

At the Mens Shed on Sat, talk was he cut off the Truck, maybe he forgot he was towing and pulled in too close.

Sorry for going off topic.....Cheers Bob

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yobarr · Guru

Bobdown wrote:
Had a quick look on the Net and it looks like a B Double. Looks like Ford Ranger sitting on the road with a pile of rubble still attached.
At the Mens Shed on Sat, talk was he cut off the Truck, maybe he forgot he was towing and pulled in too close.
Sorry for going off topic.....Cheers Bob

Thanks Bob, for the photos. Not a B-Double, but perhaps only a Double Roadtrain? Think the truck was an Argosy, but not 100% sure.. Strange that the Ranger didn't go over too as connection was only a simple towball, which usually helps to flip the towing vehicle. Cheers.

P.S No more off-topic than other posts?

-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 9th of January 2023 07:45:47 PM

yobarr · Guru

Bobdown wrote:
Had a quick look on the Net and it looks like a B Double. Looks like Ford Ranger sitting on the road with a pile of rubble still attached.
At the Mens Shed on Sat, talk was he cut off the Truck, maybe he forgot he was towing nd pulled in too close.
Sorry for going off topic.....Cheers Bob

Even if the Ranger wasn't towing, pulling in again only 8 metres ahead (guess at overall caravan length) is still too close to duck in front of a 90 ton truck travelling at 100km/hr. Cheers

yobarr · Guru

Bobdown wrote:
Had a quick look on the Net and it looks like a B Double. Looks like Ford Ranger sitting on the road with a pile of rubble still attached.
At the Mens Shed on Sat, talk was he cut off the Truck, maybe he forgot he was towing and pulled in too close.
Sorry for going off topic.....Cheers

Even if the driver wasn't towing, pulling-in only 8 metres (Guess at overall length of van) ahead of a 90 ton truck that is travelling at 100km/hr is stupidity in the extreme.

But the press always will dramatise the accident with headlines such as "Roadtrain destroys caravan" or some other such rubbish.

Truth be known, 85% of fatal accidents involving cars and trucks are the fault of the car driver.

To put this in perspective, many truck drivers travel 1000km/day while car drivers would be lucky to average 100km/day. Cheers

P.S The picture is of what is known as a "quad", with a semi-trailer towing a Dog trailer which in turns tows a B-Double. (2 more trailers)

Can be up to around 160 ton, so it needs some distance to stop. Give us room!

-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 9th of January 2023 08:40:48 PM

gold dandelion · Senior Member

Hello Maids, as for the correction of spelling mistakes and English errors I think you will find the first person to correct you actually had a question mark at the end of a sentence and wasn't asking a question, some people are funny, you just have to have a chuckle to yourself.

yobarr · Guru

gold dandelion wrote:
Hello Maids, as for the correction of spelling mistakes and English errors I think you will find the first person to correct you actually had a question mark at the end of a sentence and wasn't asking a question, some people are funny, you just have to have a chuckle to yourself.

Hi Robert. Although I have looked (quickly) through the thread, I've not seen any question mark used where not necessary. Perhaps you could kindly point out to us where this apparently misused question mark is? (Question mark used here) Cheers

Hylife · Guru

Hi Maids,

Ignore the pedantic little children and their immature ramblings about spelling.

As to your original post, a minor reminder about Ohms law may help.

Watts divided by volts = amps.

Now that all seems simple enough, BUT, you need to factor in that you are powering things from 12V DC not 240V AC.

So, ceteris paribus, we have to redo the math for the conversion, that is, everything has to be multiplied by a factor of 20 to get from 12 to 240.

If we assume that your inverter is a reputable pure sine wave model and it runs at about 80% efficiency, then we need to multiply things by a factor of 25.

Lets do some math now.

An Ibis 3 draws 5.7 amps on 240V AC on cooling (a little less on heating cycle). This is not taking into account the surge current of up to 40% when the compressor kicks in.

Using Ohms law in reverse we can calculate watts. Volts x Amps = Watts (nothing to do with the term of using Watts as a measure of cooling efficiency)

So, 240 x 5.7 = 1368 Watts

Times 25 to converts from 12V to 240V with inverter inefficiencies is the equivalent to 34,200 Watts.

Of course it is the amps that increases not the Watts, but that now means your Aircon is drawing 5.7 x 25 = 142.5 Amps from your batteries.

Most of us subscribe to the theory of never taking lead acid batteries below 50% state of charge for longevity.

In this case, your 240amps of AGM power (assuming again that they are in perfect as new health), are at minimum in 51 minutes.

Now remember that Latin phrase I dropped earlier on, it roughly translated means "all things being equal".

Unfortunately, all things aren't equal because the voltage of your batteries decline as their capacity does, meaning a higher current draw as the batteries decline.

Then there is the surge current of the compressor, then there is the need for a much larger inverter to cope with the surge current, etc, etc, etc.

Now, here comes the real kick in the pants, how long will it take to put all those amps back into your batteries with only 400W of solar?

The best you'll get, allowing for a more efficient southerly latitude of say below Hervey Bay (yes that's right, solar is less efficient closer to the equator), mid-day full sun from 400W of panels is about 12 to 14 amps.

Take into account the movement of the sun and no shade at any time and you'll get about 50 amps for a whole day into lead acid batteries.

So, that's 3 days to put back in what you took out in 51 minutes, without any other draw on the batteries from lights, phones, fridges etc.

Now you see why heating or cooling from 12V DC is just not a good idea unless you have sh!t loads of batteries and sh!t loads of solar to replenish them.

Hope this helps.
Cheers.

gold dandelion · Senior Member

The second post.

Mike Harding · Guru

gold dandelion wrote:
The second post.

'Twas an implied question. Do you not think?

yobarr · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
gold dandelion wrote:
The second post.
'Twas an implied question. Do you not think?

Absolutely Mike! Seems that despite belief in their own ability to do so, some people cannot speak Properly Inglish? Cheers

P.S Another implied question?

gold dandelion · Senior Member

Ha Ha, implied questions are not question-marked and follow up questions as in the second paragraph don't need to be capitalized either, however I guess I am competing with ex English Teachers here so will refrain from commenting further so not to disgrace myself.
Off track sorry Maids, you are better off buying a Genny if you want to run an air conditioner.

-- Edited by gold dandelion on Wednesday 11th of January 2023 06:11:36 PM

Trailer Sailer · Senior Member

Ignoring all the grammatical and spelling distractions I am just going to highlight a different solution.
I have a rooftop dometic aircond in my slide on camper but find it both noisy and hugely power consuming really only suitable when hooked up to power or out of others earshot so I can run my Honda eu2.2 generator. (the full 20 metres power cord away)
As per my moniker and as some here know I also do some of my Grey nomad travels via a 28 foot trailerable yacht.
Occasionally in the tropics ( and despite being on the water ) the heat and humidity verge on being too much to sleep even with my 12v fans running.
Recently during the Black Friday sale and on a whim I purchased a Zero Breeze Mk2 portable air conditioner not really expecting too much.
Surprisingly combined with an EcoFlow Mini lithium power pack ( also on super special ) for under $1,200 combined I have found a portable, lightweight occasional use solution for both the yacht and camper double bed sleeping areas on those odd impossible to sleep nights.
The Zero Breeze Mk2 weighs about 8.5 kgs including its 240v-24v power supply.
The EcoFlow Mini is about another 2kgs but also has a variety of other available uses. It provides 300w of sine wave 240v and can accept solar or car outlet 12v along with 240v input at the same time to keep up with the draw down from it small lithium battery.
As the Zero Breeze draws between 100w to 240w depending on night economy to full turbo mode it copes fine with providing the power supply.
Its not powerful enough to do more than cool a height constrained sectioned off sleeping area or just blow cool ( dehumidified ) air onto you in a larger area but it does work to do these things.
Just an alternative to others comments here. :)

-- Edited by Trailer Sailer on Saturday 14th of January 2023 04:53:32 PM

gold dandelion · Senior Member

Good work mate, I think the English teachers have logged off this topic.

TimTim · Guru

Welcome back Trailer Sailer, always good to read your interesting posts even though Im not a sailor smile .

Had to do a quick edit or i would have been sent to the naught corner .

-- Edited by TimTim on Sunday 15th of January 2023 07:47:15 AM