yobarr wrote:

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Possum3 wrote:

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Additionally with the price of diesel now being around fifty cents/litre above petrol, the Y62 Patrol would be a more prudent buy.

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The Y62 is a better car all round but doesn't have the "pose" appeal of the LC300. It is, however, is one of few cars available that can safely tow 3500kg as a PIG trailer. Cheers

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 I know which I'd rather own when it comes time to sell/trade, and it isn't the Nissan 

JackoFJR wrote:

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yobarr wrote:

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The Y62 is a better car all round but doesn't have the "pose" appeal of the LC300. It is, however, is one of few cars available that can safely tow 3500kg as a PIG trailer. Cheers

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 I own a Y62 Patrol yes it has plenty of power to tow 3500Kg but its pretty much impossible to do it without exceeding GVM and/or rear axle weights . 

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 Hi Ron. What you suggest is incorrect, but I'm driving the Roadtrain so can't really explain at the moment. Your car is good for 6520kg GCM, all legal, all safe!  Will explain later tonight if I get back to base in time. Cheers

JackoFJR wrote:

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yobarr wrote:

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The Y62 is a better car all round but doesn't have the "pose" appeal of the LC300. It is, however, is one of few cars available that can safely tow 3500kg as a PIG trailer. Cheers

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 I own a Y62 Patrol yes it has plenty of power to tow 3500Kg but its pretty much impossible to do it without exceeding GVM and/or rear axle weights . 

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 Hi Ron. Brief run-down of figures for your car. These MAY vary depending on year of manufacture, but I'll present the worst case scenario!           GVM is 3500 kg. GCM is 7000kg but impossible to EVER reach. Rear axle capacity is 2030kg and front axle is 1650kg. Because the car has a short TBO (towball overhang, or distance from rear axle to hitch point) when towing a 3500kg van the generally accepted 10% towball weight transfers almost 500kg to the car's rear axle. Because a 350kg towball weight reduces your car's 3500kg GVM by 130kg you're back to 3370kg. I'm very tired, but briefly, this is how it works. With a 3500kg van and 10% towball weight your GTM (weight on van wheels) is obviously 3150kg. Careful loading makes it easy to reach, but not exceed, your car's rear axle capacity of 2030kg. These two figures (2030 and 3150) total 5180kg. Now deduct rear axle capacity (2030kg) from GVM (3370kg) and you will see that you have 1340kg left for your front axle. Simple stuff really, and these fugures can NEVER be achieved with an LC300. Period. There are many variables that I could explain if I was less tired, but this brief summary should help you? Cheers

P.S It perhaps should be noted that the Y62 has a much longer wheelbase and a shorter TBO (towball overhang) than does an LC 300, so is therefore inherently more stable, and safer.

JackoFJR wrote:

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Yobar I have weighed a few Ti Y62's , straight from the show room 2 of us in the front seats @ 170Kg , full fuel tank , Nissan towbar nothing else completely stock , not even a brake controller fitted , the front axle = 1540Kg , rear axle - 1460Kg = 3000Kg . 

3500 Van with 350Kg on the towball = 500Kg on the rear axle with the weight transfer so yes GVM = 3350Kg all good lets go but you only have 70Kg to play with on the rear axle 

I don't know about you but most ppl do carry some extra things in the vehicle , from my experience any weight placed in the vehicle behind the front seats adds pretty much

all its weight to the rear axle , so even a couple of small kids or one adult or a few tools , recovery gear , small fridge anything at all in the back and you will be cutting it really fine on the rear axle .

Plenty buy a Y62 and think because its got a very nice powerful 5.6lt V8 they can hook up their 3500kg Van and off they go but they are now the ppl all over the FB almost everyday asking about GVM/GCM upgrades

I think that's to close for comfort and not very practical , yes it might be better than a LC 200/300 .

I tow a Hybrid Van ATM 2500kg but last trip it was only loaded to 2380Kg  and I was over 2030Kg rear axle , we have a 300kg GVM upgrade that gives me only a extra 120kg on the rear axle  that gets me over the line legally but only just 

I can and will lighten the load even more next trip , anything I didn't use last time and there is a couple of heavy items will stay home .

 

Maybe I should just get WDH and reduce the towball weight .

-- Edited by JackoFJR on Tuesday 29th of November 2022 12:48:50 PM

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 Flat out driving today, but please note.:- 

WDH DOES NOT CHANGE TOWBALL WEIGHT. .   Never has. Never will. Explain later.

Possum3 wrote:

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Additionally with the price of diesel now being around fifty cents/litre above petrol, the Y62 Patrol would be a more prudent buy.

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Ahhh, but the Nissan is NOT a four wheel drive, it is an AWD soft-roader and not only will that get you bogged in deep mud or dry sand, you will be prevented from going places that insist on 4x4 only.

The Patrol AWD relies on an electronic traction control system to prevent independent wheel spin as all modern AWD vehicles do, unfortunately, on surfaces where your wheels must slip independently, such as dry sand, an AWD will have you coming to a shuddering halt very quickly.

Been there, done that, would never buy an AWD again and expect reliable off road performance.

AWD is great on a Toorak tractor that mostly stays on the black top or gravel, but give me a proper 4x4 any day.

I'm not saying I'm some sh!t-hot driver, but I've never been bogged in my 4x4, yet I've had to do lots of recovery winching for AWDs

Hylife wrote:

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Ahhh, but the Nissan is NOT a four wheel drive, it is an AWD soft-roader and not only will that get you bogged in deep mud or dry sand, you will be prevented from going places that insist on 4x4 only.

The Patrol AWD relies on an electronic traction control system to prevent independent wheel spin as all modern AWD vehicles do, unfortunately, on surfaces where your wheels must slip independently, such as dry sand, an AWD will have you coming to a shuddering halt very quickly

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 Hylife you do realise the Y62 has a H4 and a L4 , I have driven plenty of deep sand and sand dunes on Googs Tk towing a 1.5T camper never once did I need a second go at a dune , can't say the same for the mate following in his Hilux also did most tracks on Lorella Springs towing a 2.5T Hybrid van with absolutely no problems , have driven a lot of Vic High country tracks without any problems .

JackoFJR wrote:

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 Hylife you do realise the Y62 has a H4 and a L4 ,

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That it has a switch with H4 and L4 doesn't change the fact that it is still just an AWD with limited off-road capabilities, not a 4WD. That H4/L4 just means high or low ratio gearing.

Sending power to four wheels and controlling that power using electronic braking is completely different to mechanically locking front and rear drive shafts and axels so that all four wheels have the same traction regardless of slippage.

You simply can't rely on electronics to control wheel slip and drive to all four wheels on surfaces where your wheels WILL spin such as deep mud or snow or deep dry sand, because applying braking to the slipping wheels WILL bring you to a juddering stop.

In poor surface conditions there is virtually no difference between AWD and a normal car for handling, braking or cornering.

Try gaining access to the ranger controlled NSW/Vic high country in winter with an AWD when they state 4WD only, you won't.

And don't get me started on the whole can of worms around recovery or insurance by taking an AWD into the many places in Australia that clearly sign post as 4WD only.

Don't get me wrong, the new Patrol is a lovely car, but that's all it is, a soft roader car, not an off roader 4WD.

You can make an AWD into a 4WD by turning off all the electronic controls...........works much better than just locking the diff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4luarvzXYs

JackoFJR wrote:

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Bobdown wrote:

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You can make an AWD into a 4WD by turning off all the electronic controls...........works much better than just locking the diff.

 Bob that vehicle is a Land Cruiser 200 series , it's not a AWD , it has a centre diff that needs to be locked for true 4wd in H4 or L4 , my Patrol has no centre diff that needs to be locked in H4 /L4 it automatically mechanically locks front and rear drive shafts and axles so that all four wheels have traction when H4 or L4 is selected , but really the only way to lock all for wheels is with diff locks front and rear , then all 4 wheels will turn at the same speed regardless of traction , even if one wheel on a axle has nothing but daylight underneath it will still turn at the same speed as the other wheel .                  My Y62 has a rear Diff lock when engaged both rear wheels will turn at the same speed . 

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 Sorry Ron, it is of course Full time 4WD not AWD. But to get even torque to all wheels, turn off the electrics as per the video.

Don't know about Patrols, wouldn't be caught dead in one .......sorry.

Cheers Bob

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