LPG gas, CO2, CO detectors for caravans

Pradokakadudavid · Senior Member

LPG gas, CO2, CO detectors for caravans

kgarnett · Senior Member

I dont know about others, but I have one CO monitor/alarm mounted at sleeping head height near the bed.

I also have 5 LPG sensors at various places througout in the van.

The LPG sensors are located at every place there is a possibility of a leak and LPG buildup. Ie wherever there is a LPG gas connection/fitting.
Eg one is beneath the Swift oven, one is near the LPG inlet to the Rinnai Gas HWS, one is near the LPG entry into the van through the floor, one is near the bayonet connection in a tunnel boot, and one is in the cavity behind the bayonet connection on the side of the van.

The sensors are most sensitive to their nominated gas but also respond the other gases. eg they respond to exhaust gas from the generator if I leave the hatch open while the generator is operating nearby. - Confirms the system is working.

Not convinced about the necessity of a CO2 sensor.

-- Edited by kgarnett on Friday 3rd of June 2022 08:48:45 PM

Mike Harding · Guru

Be aware there is no Australian standard for carbon monoxide (CO) detectors so ensure you buy one which is approved to the European standard. I have posted many times here before on this issue and if you search you'll find more details.

86GTS · Guru

We bought ours from the big green shed.
Definitely a good investment.
A couple that we knew booked into a motel room, put the heater on & laid down on the bed.
They never woke up.

Mike Harding · Guru

An article everyone with a caravan or cabin boat should read:

ABC report of inquest

"his disorientation would have taken minutes,"

He was a trained engineer and would have had, at least, basic knowledge of CO and its dangers, a tragic loss.

Why CO detectors are *not* mandated in boats and caravans is beyond me! At least with a fire you have a chance of seeing or smelling the smoke but we have no natural way to detect CO. A few months past two men died in a tent in Omeo, Vic from CO poisoning.

The detector shown in the link is the one I own and is compliant with the European standard.

From time-to-time I place my detector near the campfire to ensure its reading changes and I know it's working.

kgarnett · Senior Member

Some useful information here:

https://esv.vic.gov.au/gas-technical-information-sheets/36-carbon-monoxide-alarms-for-domestic-use/

Ken

oldbloke · Guru

Mostly hype.

One basic rule for CO.

You have a vent in the van door. (regulated I believe) Do not completely cover it and always have another vent or window cracked open. This virtually guarantees ventilation at all times. That is the solution.

And who goes to bed with their gas, diesel heater running all night? Who leaves the cook top or oven on all night? There is the gas fridge I guess but that has two large vents at the rear of the van.

LPG, same as above. Ventilation. In addition you will smell it waaaay before the concentration is high enough for an ignition. The "smell" is added during production for just that purpose.

I'll duck under the bed now.

BTW, if we are all sh1t scared of CO we shouldn't be driving on the road.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
An article everyone with a caravan or cabin boat should read:
ABC report of inquest
"his disorientation would have taken minutes,"
He was a trained engineer and would have had, at least, basic knowledge of CO and its dangers, a tragic loss.
Why CO detectors are *not* mandated in boats and caravans is beyond me! At least with a fire you have a chance of seeing or smelling the smoke but we have no natural way to detect CO. A few months past two men died in a tent in Omeo, Vic from CO poisoning.
The detector shown in the link is the one I own and is compliant with the European standard.
From time-to-time I place my detector near the campfire to ensure its reading changes and I know it's working.

Mike,

I read the coroner's report but it didn't mention the steps that caused the man's death. Did he cook on a gas stove or sleep in a confined place without ventilation?

Mike Harding · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Mike,
I read the coroner's report but it didn't mention the steps that caused the man's death. Did he cook on a gas stove or sleep in a confined place without ventilation?

I don't know, I simply found the article via Google and was surprised at the rapidity they mentioned in regard to CO disorientation setting in.

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

I dont consider that it matters as to what he was doing when he died.

The heading of this topic indicates the use of a gas detector and the headline of the link to the coroners report says this.

*Carbon monoxide poisoning killed young sailor Nicholas Banfield, but a $50 detector could have saved his life*

The message is simple there is no need or gain to analyse what his actions were to result in the death of anyone.

I really thing that some on here have never had anything to do with camping or caravanning particularly when it comes to using LPG.

Whenarewethere · Guru

I can't comment on gas issues as we do not have gas.

But...

In our block of units we do more than NSW legislation for blocks of Units in relation to fire extinguishers.

Co2 5kg in meter room, as required NSW legislation.

4.5kg ABE in laundry, not required.

2 x 1kg in garage, not required.

2 x 1kg in car, not required.

2 x 1kg & 1 X 2kg in our Unit, not required.

Plus the smoke detectors each year registered with the management agent confirmed that they are working.

I also give the ABE extinguishers a regular bash as the contents settle, then the extinguisher becomes useless, more so the extinguishers in the car. If you have 2 extinguishers you can bash them together. Easy!

yobarr · Guru

Because carbon monoxide is slightly lighter than air it is important that any vent should be higher up, with detectors at least 5' off the floor. Because I sometimes leave my diesel heater on all night I have installed a Quell alarm and I also crack one side of the 4 seasons vent. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 4th of June 2022 11:28:30 PM

Brenda and Alan · Guru

Height of sensors is immaterial as gasses do not separate into layers according to their relative density, they remain intimately mixed.

Alan

yobarr · Guru

Brenda and Alan wrote:
Height of sensors is immaterial as gasses do not separate into layers according to their relative density, they remain intimately mixed.
Alan

Others may know a lot about gases and hot air but I do not. Since I am always willing to learn I simply asked Mr Google and he showed me this. Not sure how accurate it is, but it's the best I could find in my effort to provide positive input to the topic. Cheers

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Clarky 1 wrote:
I dont consider that it matters as to what he was doing when he died.

The heading of this topic indicates the use of a gas detector and the headline of the link to the coroners report says this.

*Carbon monoxide poisoning killed young sailor Nicholas Banfield, but a $50 detector could have saved his life*

The message is simple there is no need or gain to analyse what his actions were to result in the death of anyone.

I really thing that some on here have never had anything to do with camping or caravanning particularly when it comes to using LPG.

If one understood the sequences to the man's demise then one could avoid repeating that process.

I seem to remember there was a case where people lit a fire in a closed shipping container. I don't remember if it was a gas fire or just a wood fire. I think the latter. However, I would never have done what they did because I understand that the oxygen molecules would be combined with carbon via the burning process.

oldbloke · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Because carbon monoxide is slightly lighter than air it is important that any vent should be higher up, with detectors at least 5' off the floor. Because I sometimes leave my diesel heater on all night I have installed a Quell alarm and I also crack one side of the 4 seasons vent. Cheerps

-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 4th of June 2022 11:28:30 PM

Yobarr, Since you don't have a vent in your door, one vent cracked will achieve next to nothing. In order to create a draft/ventilation you will need to open a window as well. The further away from your four seasons vent the better.

Cheers OB ;)

P.S. Alarms are only a warning system and not as effective as a preventative action.

yobarr · Guru

oldbloke wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Because carbon monoxide is slightly lighter than air it is important that any vent should be higher up, with detectors at least 5' off the floor. Because I sometimes leave my diesel heater on all night I have installed a Quell alarm and I also crack one side of the 4 seasons vent. Cheers
Yobarr, Since you don't have a vent in your door, one vent cracked will achieve next to nothing. In order to create a draft/ventilation you will need to open a window as well. The further away from your four seasons vent the better.
Cheers OB ;)
P.S. Alarms are only a warning system and not as effective as a preventative action.

Thanks for that info. Tonight I shall partly open a window in the other half of the van, about 2 metres from the 4 seasons hatch, but in another open room. Might have to turn the heater up a bit though, as tonight's temp is predicted to drop to 3 degrees. Could be time to head back to Port Hedland! Cheers

Brenda and Alan · Guru

Yobarr, two thoughts.

(1)If you are so convinced that carbon monoxide is ljghter and will be at roof level, why bother with an alarm.

(2) if you dont have gas on your van why bother at all.

Alan

oldbloke · Guru

He is concerned about CO leaking from his diesel heater.

yobarr · Guru

oldbloke wrote:
He is concerned about CO leaking from his diesel heater.

Thanks, Neil, for helping here. Alan, it is not a matter of me "being convinced" that carbon monoxide is lighter than air, but more about me believing facts as established by scientists. This policy may be foreign to you, but doing so has served me well over my life. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 7th of June 2022 09:09:14 AM

Tony LEE · Guru

Lot of misinformation here. CO is regarded as perfectly mixing with air for a couple of reasons so you can put CO (not CO2) detectors anywhere that seems suitable. I'd suggest sitting head height in living rooms and sleeping head height in bedrooms. You can get lthal concentrations of CO without having any gas appliances at all. One case in the US involved an adjacent motorhome running a generator with a genturi attached, and fumes entered a motorhome via a roof hatch and those inside died. Personally have experienced 450ppm CO inside two motorhomes because of strong side winds forcing combustion gas from refrigerator and water heater, both of which are SUPPOSED to be fully sealed but rarely are. Not all motorhomes have fixed ventilation old bloke as they are not always required. Diesel heaters have been reported to burn through the combustion chamber so introducing combustion gases into the living space. An adjacent motorhome could introduce combustion products into a living spacerough an open window. Correct height for a propane alarm is a few inches above floor level. Propane does stratify and it is quite common for the lower couple of feet to be at explosive mixture while above that there is no gas smell. It does displace oxygen so if the explosion doesn't kill you, asphyxiation will Not everyone can smell mercaptin so smell is not universally useful for detecting gas. Does sense of smell work when you are asleep?