iana wrote:

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So are you saying that you should circulate the air from around the compressor assembly back through the caravan ?

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 Yes. About the heat of a light globe.

With our DIY freezer, the fan blows the air upwards to dry the teatowls.

Cheers,

Peter

If a 9kg gas bottle lasts 3 weeks. Each 24 hours the gas fridge is producing 5.85kWh of heat. 2 weeks each 24 hours it's 8.77kWh. I think the level of heat is better outside in summer, but you do have dust ingress issues.

Whenarewethere wrote:

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If a 9kg gas bottle lasts 3 weeks. Each 24 hours the gas fridge is producing 5.85kWh of heat. 2 weeks each 24 hours it's 8.77kWh. I think the level of heat is better outside in summer, but you do have dust ingress issues.

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 There is no choice with a gas fridge. It MUST be sealed from the inside of the van, or you die.......

Cheers,

Peter

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:

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Whenarewethere wrote:

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If a 9kg gas bottle lasts 3 weeks. Each 24 hours the gas fridge is producing 5.85kWh of heat. 2 weeks each 24 hours it's 8.77kWh. I think the level of heat is better outside in summer, but you do have dust ingress issues.

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 There is no choice with a gas fridge. It MUST be sealed from the inside of the van, or you die.......

Cheers,

Peter

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 Sorry, that is just scare mongering. The gas stove for for boiling the kettle produces far more carbon monoxide. And don't forget the van would need to be sealed 100%. Who does that?.  

iana wrote:

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How do you work out how much heat a compressor fridge produces ?

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 Why would you want to ?

Ian

More on carbon monoxide poisoning....

Carbon Monoxide Poisoning - RV Books %

Carbon monoxide poisoning is the most common cause of injury and death due to poisoning worldwide. [6].

"Ongoing user denial

In 2012 user denial came to a head. Three men died in a matter related to carbon monoxide poisoning, in a caravan in Tasmania. Despite no Coroners report yet published, many posts appeared on caravan forums. They denied the cause of the deaths yet came from people with no possible knowledge of what had occurred. Such denial still exists.

Government response
Consequent to those deaths, the federal government established a Gas Appliances (Carbon Monoxide) Safety Strategy. Its purpose was to make people (particularly RV users) aware of the risks.

The Caravan and Motorhome Club of Australia (CMCA) asked me to assist in preparing a formal government submission. My report noted that: the existing regulations relating to gas installation in RVs do not necessarily need changing. The problem is that RV owners are not taking risks sufficiently seriously."

Cheers,

Peter

Wanda wrote:

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iana wrote:

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How do you work out how much heat a compressor fridge produces ?

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 Why would you want to ?

Ian

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 Because I was bored to tears here is a back of the envelope calculation.

It won't be much, the technical term, as electric motors are extremely efficient these days, let's be conservative & say 80%. The heat from the condenser side of the fridge is virtually all heat moved from inside the fridge.

In a gas fridge you will have the heat moved from inside the fridge same as a compressor fridge, & instead of a, let's say 80% efficient motor, there is a flame.

Actual heat from powering the compressor fridge is so little I personally wouldn't bother factoring it in.

But for arguments sake some have said their large compressor fridge uses 60AH per 24 hours. So 0.72kWh at 80% efficient motor, is about 0.144kWh of actual motor heat per 24 hours.

Heat being removed from inside the fridge is heat which want's to get back in, so that in principle is a closed loop.

So gas fridge motor (flame) heat is about 6.0kWh of heat. Compressor fridge about 0.144kWh of motor heat.

Forgot, if you have the fan I am using, add 1.2 watts while it is running. About 15 minutes per hour when the compressor runs. So about 0.3 watts for the fan, or 7.2 watts per 24 hours. Also a little bit for the electronics.

oldbloke wrote:

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Peter_n_Margaret wrote:

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oldbloke wrote:

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Peter_n_Margaret wrote:

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 There is no choice with a gas fridge. It MUST be sealed from the inside of the van, or you die.......

Cheers,

Peter

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 Sorry, that is just scare mongering. The gas stove for for boiling the kettle produces far more carbon monoxide. And don't forget the van would need to be sealed 100%. Who does that?.  

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 Not scare mongering at all.

Cooking and boiling the kettle takes an hour or 2 per day and people are awake and active as it happens.

The gas fridge produces CO 24 hours a day, including while people sleep.

And people do block their vents, or they are inadequate, or the wind blows in the wrong direction.

FACT is people do die from leaking gas fridges (and hot water services), even when only a proportion of those gasses get inside.

Cheers,

Peter

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 Fact the flame is about 5% of the size. The van would need to be sealed 100%. 

How many deaths a year?  3,or 4?

 How many road or work related deaths a year?

And don't forget  every van  in the country has a vent in the door.

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 Strange "logic" here.The number of hours that people spend in a caravan would be miniscule in comparison with the number of hours that people spend in cars or at work.And no,NOT every van in the country has a vent in the door. My van's appliances, including AC,microwave,toaster,slow cooker, air fryer, electric frying pan,TV,stereo,hot water jug etc are 100% solar powered, with the hot water and heating handled by a diesel heater.NO gas required,so no vent,no need to be concerned about running out of gas,and no need to pay up to $60/bottle in "the bush".People who install 3 way fridges in caravans are living in LaLa land. Installing a compressor fridge is a No Brainer.Cheers

gdayjr wrote:

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Radar wrote:

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gdayjr wrote:

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I have asked the manufacturer to put a compressor fridge in the new build.

To answer a few of the issues raised here are the specs on the caravan.

 

The caravan is a new Crusader Excalibur Prince.

It is a full composit build. It has a full Enerdrive battery and solar system with a Simarine upgrade.

2x 200ah Lithium batteries, 4x 180w Enerdrive solar panels, and another 200w portable panel that will be used in the prime mover as well.

Apart from the fridge, the only electrical draw will be with whatever domestic appliances i decide to use, which will not be a lot.

 

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 Hi.

What heating source are you going to use for cooking and water heating, gas or something else?

Are you going for a 14 litre Truma, 28 litre suburban water heater.

Will you be having 2x9kgs gas bottle fitted?

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 Lets just focus on the fridge !

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 Hi.

The refrigerator is one part of the complex of the caravan which along with the stove, water heater, room heater.

Looking at it so far, lots of solar & batteries for one powered item, the refrigerator. Well you say 2, the lights.

Now your are going to need a source of power for the stove, water heater & room heater because they will  not run off solar.

That is going to require other fuel sources. Maybe one or 2 fuel sources. 

In our caravan at present we have 3 fuel sources, solar 2x170 watts feeding 1x110 amps battery, 2x9 kgs gas, also 10 litres of diesel for the room heater which will possibly be replaced with a gas heater in near future. One to remove the fuel source to lighten the load to make it all neat and tidy.

Yes it all part of the big picture.

Peter_n_Margaret awesome home built mobilehome basically uses 2 sources of fuel only, diesel and solar which is great but for a factory built caravan it is very expensive to go all diesel unless you have unlimited supply of cash along with unengineered caravan special order build time.

For us we do not have endless supply of money with long caravan build time, we would rather be out there enjoying our off the shelf basic simple caravan now using common supplied white goods.

The heat being removed from the inside the fridge is heat which is returned through the walls & door. It's a closed loop. The heat will return through the air, cabinet walls, floor to it is surprising the amount of cold that comes out the bottom of a fridge, this is actually heat getting into the fridge, not cold falling out. Cold is not escaping fridges, it is heat getting it.

It you have really good insulation then the fridge motor won't be working as hard because the heat getting back in is at a slower rate.

If one is constantly opening the fridge door far more heat is put back inside the fridge so the fridge has to work harder.

If you have a top loading fridge (Esky) the heat will not replace the cold nearly as quickly.

If you have a stock standard fridge X amount of heat will keep getting back into the fridge this rate.

If you have a highly insulated fridge (often 200mm thick on boats) Y amount of heat wants to get back into the fridge.

In my case, some idiot (me) keeps getting beer out of the fridge so then the compressor has to then put that heat back outside the fridge. The fridge is not producing any more heat. It is that heat has got into the fridge at a rate higher than desirable to minimise battery or gas resources to maintain a temperature to keep beer drinkable.

Warning. Previously posted image, some people here say I repeat myself & contribute 'rubbish'. To date yet to see anything constructive from said people.

I have done a thread on fridge insulation which if people take onboard a hint of the information they will have a far better setup. It's not expensive or difficult stuff. Putting it simply they will cut their solar or gas input.