Why aren't 5th wheelers popular in Australia?

bgt · Guru

Why aren't 5th wheelers popular in Australia?

KJB · Guru

bgt wrote:
After RVing in the USA for 20+ years and seeing all the 5th wheelers over there I wonder why they haven't taken on here?
They have lots of benefits over a caravan. Shorter overall length for the same living area and way more stable when towing.
So what am I missing?

I think it is a "culture ", car and caravan , thing for Australians coupled with the notion that when Fifth Wheeler is mentioned most people , from my experience , think BIG , Imported from US , requiring a US style truck to tow it , type of Rig. Nothing is further from the truth.

After seeing first hand the Fifth Wheeler set ups in US I immediately started to search for a smaller version here in Aust.. There are several Aust. made units available and all more than capable of being towed by the common ,mid size Australian utes. (Winjana made in Toowoomba is one ...for example)

Lots of advantages -tow ball weight is maximised as the hitch is directly over the axle , no need for WDH, Anti sway devises etc. . tows like a dream , quick easy to hitch and unhitch , easy to reverse ., much shorter overall than a conventional set up for the same room . Mine weighs 1800Kg. empty , ~2500 Kg loaded incl. ball weight ~350Kg . No need to be fighting with axle weights . Length 6.3 m ( contains all normal fittings - air con , en suite ,awning etc.,etc.) I converted to full air bag suspension and has travelled the Gibb River Rd, Gulf Road (Hells Gate ) , Oodnadatta Track , Darling River Track amongst lots of other places without a single problem (not even a puncture !) I think more prospective "caravanners" should look into this option considering the weight restrictions on current tow vehicles available here in Aust. and the increasing weight of the bigger vans available . Just my thoughts from my experiences . I have owned camper trailers and caravans and the Fifth Wheeler is buy far the easiest to live with.

Mike Harding · Guru

With a 5th wheel van what happens in the event of a breakdown of the tow vehicle as I imagine the tow companies/RACV et al would not have the facilities to tow one?

KJB · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
With a 5th wheel van what happens in the event of a breakdown of the tow vehicle as I imagine the tow companies/RACV et al would not have the facilities to tow one?

Some do, most do not. I reckon that it would not be a real big job to winch it onto a Tilt Tray. Lots of Fifth Wheel trailers (horse floats , general cargo etc..) in country areas especially Western Qld.. Just deal with it if it happens (fix it , make do , whatever... ) it is not the end of the world - not everthing in life is guaranteed..!

bgt · Guru

I've seen a ball extension that will go from a tow truck ball up to the pin on the 5th wheel. How common are they? No idea. But it shouldn't be to hard to carry one with you if it's a worry.

KJB · Guru

bgt wrote:
I've seen a ball extension that will go from a tow truck ball up to the pin on the 5th wheel. How common are they? No idea. But it shouldn't be to hard to carry one with you if it's a worry.

I have seen an Adapter for Tow Trucks in US but have not seen one in Aust.. .... I reckon they would be here - they are a pretty simple item.

bgt · Guru

Actually those I have seen are like a miniature turntable that goes on the tow trucks tow ball. Smaller than those used in the back of the vehicle used to tow the 5th wheel.

KJB · Guru

bgt wrote:
Actually those I have seen are like a miniature turntable that goes on the tow trucks tow ball. Smaller than those used in the back of the vehicle used to tow the 5th wheel.

I have seen them with a fitting to accept a King Pin or swap to a 3" Ball . The frames were easily/quickly pinned to the "hydraulic axle lifter" at the rear of the Tow truck - all pretty simple actually, a quick 1 man operation.

Gundog · Guru

A couple of disadvantages they require a ute type of vehicle to tow one, that also negates a big portion of load/storage in the tub/tray.

One needs to be wary of an imported US one's as unless you have a properly converted one then you have your hand in your pocket for continueous repairs for the dodgey conversions.

bgt · Guru

USA imported 5th wheels have several problems. Meeting gas and electricity requirements. Door to the curb. Over width. etc etc etc. Some of them weigh over 20000 pounds.

Yes and the tub is all but used up with the hitch.

KJB · Guru

Gundog wrote:
A couple of disadvantages they require a ute type of vehicle to tow one, that also negates a big portion of load/storage in the tub/tray.
One needs to be wary of an imported US one's as unless you have a properly converted one then you have your hand in your pocket for continueous repairs for the dodgey conversions.

Yes ,but it depends on how you organise it - I use a 3" Ball that takes a lot less room than a Turntable ........On the Tray I normally carry - 2 wheels , 3Kva. Genset , 3 Gerry cans, 55 litre fridge , 2 x foldable metal military boxes (400 x 800 x 75 or unfolded 350 ) handy for extra storage if needed - plus room to spare. It means that all these heavy items are on the Tow vehicle (with easy access ) and not in or on the Van. ( bonus - much better weight distribution) .

Mariner30 · Senior Member

Initial cost ( yes, l know there are many exy/ caravans motorhomes around ) and storage problems are a couple of things,

A lot of grey nomads are happy with the size of 'van they have and don't need anything else.

One of my neighbors has had a fifth wheel combo for about 3 years, been to the mainland once in that time, been for sale since then,

Not much interest from buyers

landy · Guru

We were very keen on a 5th wheeler before we bought a van and done a lot of research.
In the end we gave the idea away for many reasons.

Recovery after breakdown. with a normal van almost any large vehicle with a toe bar could move your van
to the nearest town or van park even a Helpful Nomad.

Lack of space in the tray of your vehicle.

Can't use a canopy on your tray.

Limited storage in 5th wheeler because they are normally cut away on the front to fit above the tray.

We still came very close to buying one until we found out at the last moment the company we were buying
from who were also going to fit the turntable to our Ute, would not supply any engineers certificate for the
modifications and used there own vehicle to take the 5th wheeler to Vicroads for registration.

Radar · Guru

Our only real negative was the height in the bedroom area above the king pin.

The storage area in the tray we can live that as myself like a trayback ute.

Maybe next time round I may look harder when replacing our caravan.

dogbox · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:

With a 5th wheel van what happens in the event of a breakdown of the tow vehicle as I imagine the tow companies/RACV et al would not have the facilities to tow one?

some motor homes are also not easy to recover due to the over hang at rear .

Cupie · Guru

I've looked at 5th wheelers only out of general interest and formed the view that the fit out was generally of better quality than was the case for caravans. Cabinetry was more like good marine fittings and not rather flimsy weight saving stuff of caravans White goods seemed to be more substantial as well.

Having said that, the 3 ton + gin palace vans of today may have better quality fit out, but that comes with the obvious towing capacity questions & expenses.

A friend had one of those monster American imports and it was a fantastic thing to live in .. very comfortable with its slide outs & large open back end with a strategically placed recliner.

On a recent trip I saw a monster 5th wheeler at the Goondawindi showgrounds, pulled by a road train type prime mover. Now that was a rig to behold.

Plain Truth · Guru

Big is better?

big rig.jpg

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Plain Truth wrote:
Big is better?

Not if you actually want to go to more places.

Cheers,

Peter

tea spoon · Senior Member

i havent asked the motor reg mob but i believe that utes cant have pension concession rego in south oz ......that would stop a lot of 5 wheelrs here .........and i think they would cost more than a caeravan

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

tea spoon wrote:
i havent asked the motor reg mob but i believe that utes cant have pension concession rego in south oz ......that would stop a lot of 5 wheelrs here .........and i think they would cost more than a caeravan

Every concession holder can have ONE concession rego vehicle up to 4.45T in SA.

A "5th wheeler" IS a caravan.

Cheers,

Peter

Chris61 · Senior Member

Some people have seen the light. I have owned a 5th wheeler for 10 years. It was an USA built model but designed for the Australian market

I am now in the process of importing a Rockwood 5th wheeler that I will be doing the modifications to meet the Australian market. It will be under 4500kg and have axles and suspension that do not need upgrading. Electrical and gas modification will be the main modifications, however there are left hand door installation, pin box modification, ADR compliant trailer lighting, making sure it is under the 2500mm width limit, all able to be done.

Even with an unfavourable exchange rate, I am confident the price will be around $80000 ready to go on the road. Try doing that with a 30ft caravan built in Australia. I do realise that it will not be an off road suitable vehicle, but I have had 10 years almost trouble free travelling with my present 5th wheeler, I am going to upgrade to a new one and finish it off myself. Even with someone doing the modifications, I believe it can be easily be done for less than $100000

The video below is not the model I have purchased, although it is a Rockwood Ultralite

bgt · Guru

Chris61 many folks claim American RVs aren't up to the Australian road conditions. Those folks have never driven on their old concrete highways. Or to Alaska etc etc. But like all things in life there are good and bad products.

2_Paws_Up · Veteran Member

I'm in the 'what to do' debate again (by myself this time). I've tossed up every iteration, and in all honesty, I'd go a 5th wheeler if I was wanting to tow. But, because I am lazy/cheap/still ok to do it - I am just going with a swag. And a bloody good self-inflating mattress :D

We had a caravan. It was ok, but the work 5th wheeler was better. The weight distribution was better, IMHO. Sat on the road better, easier to reverse, was better built inside (they were the same vintage, the van and the work bus).

I figure to each their own. One issue, as others have said, is that many of us (including husband and I when we first started looking, over a decade ago) have only ever seen the big US jobs.

KJB · Guru

Chris61 wrote:
Some people have seen the light. I have owned a 5th wheeler for 10 years. It was an USA built model but designed for the Australian market

I am now in the process of importing a Rockwood 5th wheeler that I will be doing the modifications to meet the Australian market. It will be under 4500kg and have axles and suspension that do not need upgrading. Electrical and gas modification will be the main modifications, however there are left hand door installation, pin box modification, ADR compliant trailer lighting, making sure it is under the 2500mm width limit, all able to be done.

Even with an unfavourable exchange rate, I am confident the price will be around $80000 ready to go on the road. Try doing that with a 30ft caravan built in Australia. I do realise that it will not be an off road suitable vehicle, but I have had 10 years almost trouble free travelling with my present 5th wheeler, I am going to upgrade to a new one and finish it off myself. Even with someone doing the modifications, I believe it can be easily be done for less than $100000
The video below is not the model I have purchased, although it is a Rockwood Ultralite

I wanted something at the other end of the "size spectrum" but incl. all amenities - (and the shorter the better ) Our Fifth Wheeler (built in Canada to Aust. specs.) has a 6.3m (21') cabin incl. Ensuite, black and grey water tanks ,air con etc.etc. . Overall length of our Rig ( on the road) is approx. 20' shorter (very compact) than the average Dmax/HiLux towing a 24' van outfit - a big difference. It has ample room for 2 , every convenience , 1800 kg empty , 2300kg loaded and is light,well built and a dream to drive and manouvre compared to caravans I have towed. It just demonstrates that Fifth Wheelers do not necessarily have to be big or long if you are looking for a compact Rig. Axle weights are not a problem either. KB

-- Edited by KJB on Saturday 12th of June 2021 05:05:42 PM

Craig1 · Guru

It is not the climbing up into bed that would worry me, but the big step down at 4am

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

When I looked around for one . It was close to 100k for 5 wheeler and more than that for vehicle to tow !! Way too expensive !! Was second hand too ! Felt nervous as they warnt selling !!! Most bought in interstate !!

KJB · Guru

Craig1 wrote:
It is not the climbing up into bed that would worry me, but the big step down at 4am

There are a couple of nice wide carpeted steps....no probs....

KB

dieseltojo · Senior Member

Jayco thought they would get a run at the market but soon stopped making them. The main complaint was the height of the thing for wind, and the vehicle lost a lot of space for loading. We might be used to carrying the kitchen sink and miss the space I guess.

Any way those are reasons that might be questionable or need verifying. Just remember that the biggest selling vehicle in the usa is the large ford f in 250, 350 and some huge diesel options as well.

We get some imported but if you want quality you need the usa made ones not the cheaper Mexican units.

Ram are big enough but made by the same mob that make jeep which is a known PR failure. Not saying that ram will fail as they seem to be picking up but it is still a large unused space back there. It might not be known but Ram are made in the usa then shipped here where they are torn down to get the steering made LH Drive. So they are built twice. The whole engine comes out.

I don't know how you blokes feel about that but a few things left off or not tightened by essentially line mechanics is not what I would pay big dollars for. Not Knocking them but we are just looking at the matter.... smile

Mine is simply just another line of thought.

bgt · Guru

We owned a RAM for 5 years in the USA. So from experience!

RAM was a part of Chrysler. Built as Dodge RAM. Around the 2008 GFC Chrysler was in trouble. Up until that time RAM was a way behind GM and Ford in pickup sales. Fiat came along and 'bought out' Chrysler. Fiat cut RAM out of Dodge and formed the RAM Truck division. Fiat gave RAM an ultimatum to build a better pickup or they would close it down. So as a separate company RAM redesigned every inch of the RAM. In 2013 they released the RAM again. Every inch was new. Yes they look almost the same but a whole new truck. RAM sales took off so much that GM and Ford were forced to do a rethink on their pickups.

Our RAM was a 2013. The first of the Fiat RAMs. It was a brilliant vehicle. (I say was because we sold it and returned to Australia). Build was brilliant. Features and comfort brilliant. We have a KK Jeep Cherokee now and the Jeep costs more to run than the RAM. RAM gets better fuel economy.

If I was looking at spending money on a truck and 5th wheel no hesitation than looking at a RAM.

As for them pulling them apart consider this. Maybe they don't do up all the nuts and bolts. Then maybe they get all the nuts and bolts done up that weren't in the first place. It's a nonsense argument to say they could be worse because they were rebuilt. I could easily argue they could be better because they were rebuilt.

Back to my first post. The issue I see in Australia is that the local made 5th wheelers are small and cheap. (Generalizing here). While the USA built 5th wheels are HUGE. So with the likes of the RAM, if a builder was to hit the middle ground with a not too small and not too big unit then things may change.

I would look very hard at a 5th wheel.

diggerop · Senior Member

There is a lot of generalizing here. I have an Aussie built 5th wheeler. 24" towed with a dual cab Dmax. We have more than enough storage space in the van. One small step up in the middle of the van, full height ceiling in the bedroom. Seprate shower and toilet, no slide out. Smallish household fridge and air con. People go on about losing the space on the back of the ute. I do have a drawer at the front of the tray, the folding ladder, air compressor and tool bag goes in there. I live in the van , not out of the back of the ute.