Killing dual cab utes?

Possum3 · Guru

Killing dual cab utes?

KJB · Guru

Using a boy to do a man's job.........

bgt · Guru

Daughter and family, 2 adults and 3 kids under 8, took off from the Sunshine Coast in their 12 month old Triton. Tradie type box on the back with tents etc inside the box. Spare wheel and pod on the roof of the box. By the time they got to Darwin the suspension was shot. Mitsubishi dealer wouldn't give their car back to them without repairs to the rear suspension. (Well he would but you get my drift). They required a new rear end. (New springs and hangers I think). Dealer put it all down to too much weight in the back for too long. ie you can load them up but for all day every day.

iana · Guru

Its all about "Moments", not weight, weight is only part of the formula. Wish people learnt physic's at school.

yobarr · Guru

KJB wrote:
Using a boy to do a man's job.........

Well said Kerry.One of these photos,from somewhere in the outback I believe,is of the method used by a chap whose almost full-time job is straightening bent chassis so that drivers of these lightweights can return to "civilisation".Cheers

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Thats why they MAKE trucks FFS !! Do ring a plumber to fix your TV ? Well
?? I guess sum du ! No f ing brains !!

yobarr · Guru

Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Thats why they MAKE trucks FFS !! Do ring a plumber to fix your TV ? Well
?? I guess sum du ! No f ing brains !!

Good points Graham,but you can only teach those who want to learn.C'est la vie.Cheers

erad · Guru

Driven sensibly, modern utes are OK to tow a reasonably heavy caravan. NOT 3 tonne juggenauts, but even then they will do it. Where most of the people come unstuck is when they flog along outback roads and they hit a large dip (eg a creek crossing) or a large hump in the road. At some point in the road hazard, the tug has gone over a hump while the caravan is still going up the hump. End result - the tug is going down whilst the van is still going up. Massive downloading on towbar, and the chassis cannot take it. They always bend just aft of the cab.

I used to see 'Si Blaws' (4 wheel) utes in Bangkok. These were typically 1 tonne Datsun utes with seats in the tray, used as taxis. They used to put steps aft of the tailgate to allow the dainty Thai ladies to get up and into the tray of the ute. Like every other public transport vehicle in Bangkok, it would be grossly overloaded at peak hour - 5 sitting on each side, another 10 standing in the tray hanging onto the roof bars, and then probably another 10 or 12 people out the back, standing on the steps. It was not uncommon to see the front wheel lifting off the ground as the rig took off from traffic lights. There were lots of utes in Bangkok with broken backs.

They also had 'Ha Blaws" (6 wheel) doing the same job. These were typically 3 tonne Daihatsu truck chassis, again with seats running lengthways on the back and steps to get up onto the track at the back. Same principle, except that there were typically 6 or 7 steps to get up and they could carry a lot more people. I never saw one of those with a broken back, although I did see a lot of 'Sip Blaws" (10 wheeler trucks) with broken backs, but they were always heavily overloaded, many with incredible loads on them. The NSW mermaids would have a field day in Thailand.

Would I have a ute to tow my caravan? No way, even though I know why they break. No matter how careful you are, you can still get caught out there somewhere. But they are cheap to buy and claim to be able to tow huge loads, so they sell.

-- Edited by erad on Monday 17th of May 2021 06:29:47 PM

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Thanks chaps,
I dare not show this article to my missus who didn't want a dual cab (she rubbed it in again on Friday "You know what sort of a car I wanted (a Mux)". We've both got pinched nerves in our backs (I'm the latest casualty). I suggested many times to her that the load capabilities of the Mux was no different to our Patrol & I was always concerned with weight!!

But all vehicles need to be loaded & driven sensibly - I had seen Nissan Patrols with the rear coil springs broken off the chassis. Perhaps we need to go back to the old MQ Patrol with leaf springs all round! I did break the front springs on a bobby-dazzler of a bull dust trench near Hahn River.

Looking at my chassis - it's nothing like the one on my last three Patrols! And every time I take it for a service, the dealer bores it up me for not driving to get the best fuel consumption. So that's what counts these days - getting the best fuel consumption & making the car as light as possible but saying it can tow 3,000 or 3,500 kg!

So people believe them, load up, hook up & whoopee, away we go!

Radar · Guru

The bent chassis on dual cabs could happens to any brand.

2020 573.jpg 2018 462.jpg

yobarr · Guru

erad wrote about dual cab utes:- "But they are cheap to buy,and claim to be able to tow huge loads.so they sell". Not a truer word has been written, and,unfortunately,buyers who believe the figures provided are living in La La land.My comments may be of concern to owners and buyers of these vehicles,,but surely it is better to be fore warned? Cheers

KJB · Guru

Towing a caravan at 90kph on an undulating sealed road (there are plenty of these roads in Aust.) is one of the main contributors (causing prolonged chassis flexing) .....you do not have to be driving "Off Road" or on a gravel to do major damage . With "nice riding suspensions" passengers do not realise what pandemonium is going on underneath the cabin....

Mike196 · Senior Member

Hard not to have this happen when Manufacturers insist on putting the rear axle under the back seat of the cab!

yobarr · Guru

Radar wrote:
The bent chassis on dual cabs could happens to any brand.

Great post Ralph,but I must admit that it took a bit longer than I expected for someone to do what you've done.Any sensible person would understand that,wiith the right amount of abuse,ANY vehicle's chassis can be bent,but you can be assured that to bend a Toyota's chassis,you've exceeded stupidity with your loading.You might like to Google "Barnesy" from the Birdsville servo,and you will read many interesting stories about bent chassis,and the like.He makes it clear that,of all twin-cab utes,the 79 series Toyota stands alone.Hope this helps you to understand that,with the right amount of abuse, ANY vehicle can fail? Cheers

Whenarewethere · Guru

KJB wrote:
Towing a caravan at 90kph on an undulating sealed road (there are plenty of these roads in Aust.) is one of the main contributors (causing prolonged chassis flexing) .....you do not have to be driving "Off Road" or on a gravel to do major damage . With "nice riding suspensions" passengers do not realise what pandemonium is going on underneath the cabin....

Out Back Joe has the formula for stresses over corrugations.

https://outbackjoe.com/macho-divertissement/macho-articles/corrugations-fast-or-slow/

Another formula for roof loads.

https://outbackjoe.com/macho-divertissement/macho-articles/roof-loading-and-roof-top-tents/

KJB · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Radar wrote:
The bent chassis on dual cabs could happens to any brand.

Great post Ralph,but I must admit that it took a bit longer than I expected for someone to do what you've done.Any sensible person would understand that,wiith the right amount of abuse,ANY vehicle's chassis can be bent,but you can be assured that to bend a Toyota's chassis,you've exceeded stupidity with your loading.You might like to Google "Barnesy" from the Birdsville servo,and you will read many interesting stories about bent chassis,and the like.He makes it clear that,of all twin-cab utes,the 79 series Toyota stands alone.Hope this helps you to understand that,with the right amount of abuse, ANY vehicle can fail? Cheers

Look at the length of the tow bar in the bottom pic...........unbelievable that someone would contemplate hitching anything up to that........

Rob Driver · Guru

Radar wrote:
The bent chassis on dual cabs could happens to any brand.

What have I heard on more than one occasion on here....

Nothing compares or competes....

biggrin biggrin biggrin

Years ago there were pics circulating from mining and construction companies depicting bent chassis on tough Toyotas. Cant find them now.....

Pretty obvious that any vehicle can and will fail with misuse.

Regards

Rob

yobarr · Guru

KJB wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Radar wrote:
The bent chassis on dual cabs could happens to any brand.

Great post Ralph,but I must admit that it took a bit longer than I expected for someone to do what you've done.Any sensible person would understand that,wiith the right amount of abuse,ANY vehicle's chassis can be bent,but you can be assured that to bend a Toyota's chassis,you've exceeded stupidity with your loading.You might like to Google "Barnesy" from the Birdsville servo,and you will read many interesting stories about bent chassis,and the like.He makes it clear that,of all twin-cab utes,the 79 series Toyota stands alone.Hope this helps you to understand that,with the right amount of abuse, ANY vehicle can fail? Cheers
Look at the length of the tow bar in the bottom pic ...........unbelievable that someone would contemplate hitching anything up to that........

Hi Kerry.Just goes to show that every vehicle carries a dipstick.As I have previously stated,with the right amount of abuse,ANY vehicle's chassis can be bent,but you can be assured that to bend a Toyota's chassis,you've exceeded stupidity with your loading. Among twin-cab utes,the 79 stands alone.Nothing compares or competes.Cheers

KJB · Guru

yobarr wrote:
KJB wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Radar wrote:
The bent chassis on dual cabs could happens to any brand.

Great post Ralph,but I must admit that it took a bit longer than I expected for someone to do what you've done.Any sensible person would understand that,wiith the right amount of abuse,ANY vehicle's chassis can be bent,but you can be assured that to bend a Toyota's chassis,you've exceeded stupidity with your loading.You might like to Google "Barnesy" from the Birdsville servo,and you will read many interesting stories about bent chassis,and the like.He makes it clear that,of all twin-cab utes,the 79 series Toyota stands alone.Hope this helps you to understand that,with the right amount of abuse, ANY vehicle can fail? Cheers
Look at the length of the tow bar in the bottom pic ...........unbelievable that someone would contemplate hitching anything up to that........
Hi Kerry.Just goes to show that every vehicle carries a dipstick.As I have previously stated,with the right amount of abuse,ANY vehicle's chassis can be bent,but you can be assured that to bend a Toyota's chassis,you've exceeded stupidity with your loading. Among twin-cab utes,the 79 stands alone.Nothing compares or competes.Cheers

I have owned and used a series of Land Cruiser utes for work and play for 40 years ....no reason to change - no "downtime" and always good resale value.

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

I don't follow some of the comments e.g. dual cabs are cheap!

There must be a number of people here who were on significantly higher pay than I ever was! Our last aquisition cost me nearly $60,000. It's the second new car that I have ever bought. Yes, it's cheaper than a Land Cruiser or a Land Rover Discovery but with our back problems, we don't want a tough vehicle that you need a ladder to get into it. Yes I know that a VX Land Cruiser has "heavenly" seats but who other than public servants with cars on their high paying contracts can afford $130,000 for a car?

I often read here that some people live from pension day to the next, they too wouldn't consider a $60,000 car to be cheap!
I'll attempt to drive ours carefully so we don't end up with bent chassis "syndrome".

Whenarewethere · Guru

About 85% of cars have some form of finance. The other aspect is the people who get a car on finance upgrade to higher models. The people who can't afford it.

At the end of the lease period when they have to pay the balance. The value of the car has halved so when they deduct the baloon payment from the value of the car, there is nothing left, & back on the treadmill of leasing another car.

Our car was new but was ordered by someone who needed finance, it fell through & we paid cash.

Where as you or I buy a "cheaper" car & actually own it. We can buy a Range Rover Autobiography with cash, but we chose a cheaper car because it is more than adequate for the task. Always paid cash for cars & have kept the previous two for 18 years each.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
KJB wrote:
Towing a caravan at 90kph on an undulating sealed road (there are plenty of these roads in Aust.) is one of the main contributors (causing prolonged chassis flexing) .....you do not have to be driving "Off Road" or on a gravel to do major damage . With "nice riding suspensions" passengers do not realise what pandemonium is going on underneath the cabin....
Out Back Joe has the formula for stresses over corrugations.
https://outbackjoe.com/macho-divertissement/macho-articles/corrugations-fast-or-slow/

Another formula for roof loads.
https://outbackjoe.com/macho-divertissement/macho-articles/roof-loading-and-roof-top-tents/

A few years ago when we had stopped at the entrance of Purnululu NP both entering & exiting to let tyres down & inflate when exiting.

We counted 8 cars who drove in or out. Not one other car stopped to adjust pressure.

North of Broome a Toyota LC with AT tyres, owner was bogged in sand, also there were pretty bad corrugations north of Broome to get there. They were looking at us in our Freelander & were wondering how we got where we did. I said have you let the tyres down. Answer was, 'not yet'. After letting tyres down they were out.

People couldn't be bothered adjusting tyre pressure for the different roads, & then wonder why they kill their car & in the process have a bone shattering ride.

Stick in a high speed compressor. 28 seconds 20 - 35psi a tyre for our setup for a tyre with about 60 litres volume.

If you don't let your tyres down for crap roads, don't complain when you kill the car & your back.

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

G'day whenarewethere,
We had a similar experience with our first trip to the Cape - crossing the Jardine (that was when you could drive across - in 1992). We & friends did it. The trip back was a little more difficult due to a hole on the northern bank but after watching an army Land Rover do it (S-N), both of us headed south. On the southern bank, we were asked by some blokes as to how we managed it. Said "we let our tyres down." They said "how do you pump them up?" They could hav been local yokels for all we knew or had stolen the car as they had nothing!! They said other than the army, we were the only ones to cross the river that morning.

We pumped our tyres up a bit & left them wondering!

On our last trip up the Birdsville, we had good rubber on the Patrol & dropped the tyres down 8psi & had no trouble at all with the car & camper. The D-Max is yet to see those roads.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Three ARB compressors inflating while engine is running 255/60R18, about 60 litres volume. 20 - 35psi 27 seconds (28 seconds off 4 x 26AH auxiliary batteries) or 15 - 40psi 47 seconds per tyre.

The pressure sits around 112psi according to the pressure regulator. So if I want to speed this up I will need to add a fourth compressor. If this higher pressure gets close to the my current cut off if 135psi then a 150psi switch will be required.

Ironically about a 60 seconds to deflate from 35 - 20psi. I need a vacuum setup!

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

a lot of that damage is air bags

KJB · Guru

Trevor 57 wrote:
a lot of that damage is air bags

Correctly designed Full Airbag suspension is excellent (most trucks use it now days ) , but ,the addition of "aftermarket" air bags is not the " fix-all magic bullet "

for every suspension/load problem (generally overload) .

Added Airbags can make the situation "look right" in many cases but physics is about a lot more than just " looks" .

Aftermarket airbags (for some suspensions ) sound a really easy and cheap fix but can cause way more serious problems and expense (not to mention any safety issues as well )

Woody n Sue · Guru

All good points made here , agree its usually the "nut" behind the wheel that is the cause coupled to an incorrectly and usually overloaded vehicle , any person with half a brain and a few years of life experiences can see these duel cabs are a disaster waiting to happen with all the load behind the axel , and those who add air bags inflated to make the vehicle look level are putting pressure where the vehicle design never intended weight to be applied .

All these are reasons that I am now setting up a hino 817 4x4 light truck, however even these ( including the Isuzu and fuso) have issues with weight from a legal stand point , they all have a front axel with a load rating of 2.800 t or 3.100t in my case the hino is a duel cab its tare weight on the front axel is 2.200t that leaves only 600 kg that sounds like a lot until you do the maths as its a 7 seater, now if you put 7 people in there at 86 kg each you are over loaded before you even put a tray on the back.
So is this vehicle fit for purpose as a " work vehicle " ?

In my case with a chassis extension of 900 mm and my tray fitted my front axel with only me in it ( and probably 30 kg of stuff in the cab ) weighs 2720 kg ( full fuel ) with an empty tray .
Again is their vehicle fit for purpose? oh and I know of others without the chassis extention with the same weight issues.

With singles fitted my tyres are good for 3.900t but not the axel , I am currently looking for a company that will strengthen and rate an axel upgrade to 4.000 t, anyone know of an engineering firm that works in this field?

Now dont get me wrong I knew it was going to be close on the front , just not this close .

Otherwise I really like this truck we are getting a slide on made to fit on it with as much weight as possible to the rear of the rear axel to transfer some weight off the front , it will be interesting to see my weights when its built .

Woody

oldbloke · Guru

Deleted

-- Edited by oldbloke on Wednesday 19th of May 2021 11:50:53 AM

oldbloke · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
About 85% of cars have some form of finance. The other aspect is the people who get a car on finance upgrade to higher models. The people who can't afford it.
At the end of the lease period when they have to pay the balance. The value of the car has halved so when they deduct the baloon payment from the value of the car, there is nothing left, & back on the treadmill of leasing another car.
Our car was new but was ordered by someone who needed finance, it fell through & we paid cash.

Where as you or I buy a "cheaper" car & actually own it. We can buy a Range Rover Autobiography with cash, but we chose a cheaper car because it is more than adequate for the task. Always paid cash for cars & have kept the previous two for 18 years each.

You beat me to it. And they don't own a house or have money in super. Let them brag all they like.

Happy with my cheap Triton, doing the job nicely. :)

RoamerAllWaze · Member

For what its worth superior engineering provide bracket strengthening kits for a number of brands.
I have a Triton and am very aware dont load past the rear axle.