Advise re Heating when free camping

aastek · Veteran Member

Advise re Heating when free camping

Dhutime · Senior Member

Diesel heater works well .

yobarr · Guru

Dhutime wrote:
Diesel heater works well .

Another vote for Diesel Heater.Mine heats water as well,and costs very little to run...there is no gas supply in my van.Cheers

Farmhat · Senior Member

Yes sir, diesel heater all the way.

Simple and easy. (and warm) :)

Joe

Mike Harding · Guru

1 - Diesel heater - ebay $180, fit it yourself in a day or less uses very little diesel, no smell.

2 - Campfire, chain saw and log splitter.

tea spoon · Senior Member

real easy answer go to a caravan park ....in winter hardly anyones there and the park could use the money..............they got a thing called electricity ......buy a heater plug it in .......

-- Edited by tea spoon on Saturday 13th of March 2021 09:24:55 AM

bgt · Guru

I'm with your wife. More socks.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

tea spoon wrote:
real easy answer go to a caravan park ....in winter hardly anyones there and the park could use the money..............they got a thing called electricity ......buy a heater plug it in .......

Great idea.

The more who do that, the less will be in the nice places where we go. smile

Cheers,

Peter

bilbo · Senior Member

spend 3 months in Katherine/Darwin.

cheers Bilbo

Aussie1 · Guru

Generator. Good for running heaters and coolers as well. To easy, works for us. Ahh, the great outdoors, well away from "borring caravan parks"

Stewart · Senior Member

Hi

We use a Mr Buddy Heater and it works great inside and out. We don't sleep with it on but it warms the caravan very quickly. 5 mins in the morning when you wake and its very warm Also have a C02 sensor just in case.

Have a 12 volt heated rung for the wife when sitting on the couch and also a double bed.

We have a pot belly stove from an old gas bottle for when fires are permitted.

now ill run for cover.

Cheers Stewart

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

I dont our diesel heater uses any diesel ? Wouldnt go without it . Its built in !! No choice !! Aha Although
Cuddles keep you WARM!

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Stewart wrote:
We use a Mr Buddy Heater and it works great inside and out. We don't sleep with it on but it warms the caravan very quickly. 5 mins in the morning when you wake and its very warm Also have a C02 sensor just in case.

It is the CO (carbon monoxide) that will kill you, not the CO2 (carbon dioxide).

It will clearly state on the packaging "For outside use only" for very good reason. It can and will kill.

CO poisoning is cumulative. It is a bit like saying eating mercury won't hurt you. A little bit now, a little bit tomorrow and eventually you just nod off and don't wake up.

CO poisoning is called "Sleeping death" for good reason.

Very stupid and very dangerous. If you have any regard for your wife, stop using it inside. For under $200 you can be warm AND safe.

Cheers,

Peter

Stewart · Senior Member

Hi Peter there are many test done that show this heater is safe to use if in good condition. Do you have examples of someone dieing from it or just your educated opinion. As we are on QLD it doesn't get that cold and we always have windows open when using. Far less dangerous than cooking inside. It also has safety feature that turns off when oxygen is depleted. Cheers Stewart.

Onedodger · Guru

2 Vans ago I fitted a diesel heater and now would not have a van without one.

So my vote is a diesel heater. So cheap to run approx 100ml per hour, and gets the van warm n toasty before we get out of bed. Another plus is if it is real cold you can leave ours on and it just ticks over very quietly keeping the van warm.

rgren2 · Guru

Me too for the diesel heater, I mounted the fuel tank on the front of the van on the same side as the fuel filler on my Patrol, easy to top up when refueling.

oldbloke · Guru

Diesel
Gas heater
Camp fire
250v in CP

We have a truma gas heater.

oldbloke · Guru

Stewart wrote:
Hi Peter there are many test done that show this heater is safe to use if in good condition. Do you have examples of someone dieing from it or just your educated opinion. As we are on QLD it doesn't get that cold and we always have windows open when using. Far less dangerous than cooking inside. It also has safety feature that turns off when oxygen is depleted. Cheers Stewart.

These heaters are ok if used sensibly. Remember vans are fitted with gas stoves etc. No different.

The key is ventilation, and don't sleep with it on.

Vans have a large vent in the door, if you combine this with a window being open just a small amount it will guarantee air flow and regular replacement of the air in the van. Simple.

The main problem arises when the van is sealed against all draughts. The heater uses up the oxygen, as well as people. When the oxygen level becomes low the heater will start producing the CO.

Yes, CO is bloody dangerous but there is also a lot of scare mongering in the internet about it.

Let's not drive cars 1200 die each year on the roads.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_Australia_by_year

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Stewart wrote:
Hi Peter there are many test done that show this heater is safe to use if in good condition. Do you have examples of someone dieing from it or just your educated opinion. As we are on QLD it doesn't get that cold and we always have windows open when using. Far less dangerous than cooking inside. It also has safety feature that turns off when oxygen is depleted. Cheers Stewart.

You are kidding yourself.

Show me something on the product or the packaging that says it is OK to use inside.

There are some deaths from these devices in Australia some recently in Tasmania and MANY in the USA (but there are a lot of very stupid people there).

You can not tell if the heater is in "good condition" or not.

It is MUCH more dangerous than cooking inside which is something that you stand and watch and tend. CO is likely to put you to sleep and then you are dead.

Oxygen depletion is NOT the problem. The problem is that CO is poisonous and attaches itself to the red blood cells stopping them from carrying oxygen, even when there is plenty.

If you educate yourself adequately, you will not do this and you will not risk the life of others by promoting it.

Cheers,

Peter

EDIT:

Delayed neurological sequelae develop between 2 and 240 days after exposure, and are reported to affect 10-32% of people recovering from carbon monoxide poisoning. Symptoms include cognitive changes, personality changes, incontinence, psychosis, and Parkinsonism. Fortunately, 50-75% of people recover within 1 year.

Carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning can happen within a matter of minutes and is responsible for more deaths than any other single poison. ... Oil, propane, and natural gas fired heating systems, gas appliances and fireplaces all release carbon monoxide as they burn and can be health and fire hazards.

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Saturday 13th of March 2021 03:24:48 PM

Aussie1 · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Stewart wrote:
Hi Peter there are many test done that show this heater is safe to use if in good condition. Do you have examples of someone dieing from it or just your educated opinion. As we are on QLD it doesn't get that cold and we always have windows open when using. Far less dangerous than cooking inside. It also has safety feature that turns off when oxygen is depleted. Cheers Stewart.
You are kidding yourself.
Show me something on the product or the packaging that says it is OK to use inside.
There are some deaths from these devices in Australia some recently in Tasmania and MANY in the USA (but there are a lot of very stupid people there).
You can not tell if the heater is in "good condition" or not.
It is MUCH more dangerous than cooking inside which is something that you stand and watch and tend. CO is likely to put you to sleep and then you are dead.
Oxygen depletion is NOT the problem. The problem is that CO is poisonous and attaches itself to the red blood cells stopping them from carrying oxygen, even when there is plenty.
If you educate yourself adequately, you will not do this and you will not risk the life of others by promoting it.
Cheers,
Peter
EDIT:
Delayed neurological sequelae develop between 2 and 240 days after exposure, and are reported to affect 10-32% of people recovering from carbon monoxide poisoning. Symptoms include cognitive changes, personality changes, incontinence, psychosis, and Parkinsonism. Fortunately, 50-75% of people recover within 1 year.
Carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning can happen within a matter of minutes and is responsible for more deaths than any other single poison. ... Oil, propane, and natural gas fired heating systems, gas appliances and fireplaces all release carbon monoxide as they burn and can be health and fire hazards.

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Saturday 13th of March 2021 03:24:48 PM

Glad I am sticking with the generator, and not all the risky, scary stuff.

Stewart · Senior Member

Thanks Peter I will be very careful with it. It is used mainly outside anyway. Actually I think I have used it less than 5 times. Still looks brand new on the box Cheers Stewart.

oldbloke · Guru

Paracetamol leads to liver failure too. Lol
Water leads to drowning.
Alcohol leads to liver failure. But uts also a great antiseptic.
Salt is deadly

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol

What the real problem is people believe everything they read on the internet without context.

The heaters are fine providing there us some ventilation to provide some fresh air.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-09-carbon-monoxide-poisoning-difficult-brain.html

Low levels of carbon monoxide poisoning can be very difficult to spot and can cause brain damage

People who have been poisoned may therefore suffer from neurological or cognitive deficits, psychological effects and cardiovascular issues. Cruelly, such symptoms may occur weeks after initial poisoning symptoms have abated, and for some people they will be permanent.

Cheers,

Peter

oldbloke · Guru

So 2019 Beuarau of Statistics says a TOTAL of 10 accidental death by all gasses. NOTE ALL GASSES. Its a storm in a teacup.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

I guess brain damage doesn't count?
And just 99 from alcohol?
In denial. Sounds just like smoker from 20 years ago.

People can do whatever they wish, but trying to tell others that it is not a problem is another matter.
Cheers.
Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Saturday 13th of March 2021 08:16:58 PM

oldbloke · Guru

Peter, apparently the gas stoves in vans are killing hundreds then?
Sooo, you never use your vans stove or oven? No different to a heater mate.

Actually how come the industry even installs gas stoves in vans? Bloody dangerous.

oldbloke · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Stewart wrote:
Hi Peter there are many test done that show this heater is safe to use if in good condition. Do you have examples of someone dieing from it or just your educated opinion. As we are on QLD it doesn't get that cold and we always have windows open when using. Far less dangerous than cooking inside. It also has safety feature that turns off when oxygen is depleted. Cheers Stewart.
You are kidding yourself.
Show me something on the product or the packaging that says it is OK to use inside.
There are some deaths from these devices in Australia some recently in Tasmania and MANY in the USA (but there are a lot of very stupid people there).
You can not tell if the heater is in "good condition" or not.
It is MUCH more dangerous than cooking inside which is something that you stand and watch and tend. CO is likely to put you to sleep and then you are dead.
Oxygen depletion is NOT the problem. The problem is that CO is poisonous and attaches itself to the red blood cells stopping them from carrying oxygen, even when there is plenty.
If you educate yourself adequately, you will not do this and you will not risk the life of others by promoting it.
Cheers,
Peter
EDIT:
Delayed neurological sequelae develop between 2 and 240 days after exposure, and are reported to affect 10-32% of people recovering from carbon monoxide poisoning. Symptoms include cognitive changes, personality changes, incontinence, psychosis, and Parkinsonism. Fortunately, 50-75% of people recover within 1 year.
Carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning can happen within a matter of minutes and is responsible for more deaths than any other single poison. ... Oil, propane, and natural gas fired heating systems, gas appliances and fireplaces all release carbon monoxide as they burn and can be health and fire hazards.

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Saturday 13th of March 2021 03:24:48 PM

Well, actually it is the problem

"The main problem arises when the van is sealed against all draughts. The heater uses up the oxygen, as well as people. When the oxygen level becomes low the heater will start producing the CO."

Bicyclecamper · Guru

Stewart, I also use a gas one, on a 4.5kg bottle, with the round one top of bottle version. No matter how cold it is, we have 3 windows open, and that bloody gas heater keeps us warm. The worry, I do have with gas is my 3 way fridge, which is located next to the door. Overnight the burnt gas,, seeps it's way into the van overnight, and some mornings, I wake up with a headache. Not a good design, but we are not in the position to replace with a 12 volter, or add panels and batts. for it. It would be impractical. I have sensors going for the heater, but it is turned off before we sleep. The sensors sometimes go off for the fridge, but moreso, when the wind is blowing in toward the door. Anyhow, am selling and going to a hard floor camper. I do have a second hand expensive diesel heater ( but free to me) to go into it. Then will use the gas outside, like we also do now. That gas heater works brilliantly outside, and get a week and a half out of the gas bottle, using it for 2 hours a night.

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 13th of March 2021 09:12:00 PM

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 13th of March 2021 09:13:17 PM

Tony LEE · Guru

I can confirm bicycle campers experience.

In the MH in the USA we have been using an Olympic Catalytic heater for 10 years and like all US RVs there is nowhere near the amount of fixed ventilation as here. We have 3 CO and 3 smoke alarms installed, one of each in each room, and a propane alarm as well (essential because the cooktop do not have flame failure cut outs like here.

In all that time, with the heater running all day and all night, neither of the 2 CO detectors with digital readoutd have shown any reading other than zero. Same result when cooking

However, with the wind blowing from a certain direction, we have had very rapid increases of CO to the alarm points (450ppm??) due to poor sealing of both the hws and the fridge. Must be tiny holes because I can't see where the leakage points are. Had similar CO alarms in the truck camper at very high altitudes in south America because of wind blowing strongly from the side and I had to face the camper in a different direction to get rid of the alarm conditions.

Point to be taken from this is that an internally vented propane heater has never produced CO, but in two separate RVs, apparently properly installed externally vented major appliances have produced potentially lethal levels of CO.

So, install a CO detector

And smoke alarms

And propane alarms

And back to the OP's original question

Diesel heaters are pretty good value now that you don't have to pay 1800 dollars for a WEBASTO with a pretty primitive control system, and instead can get one for 180 dollars that does the job very well

-- Edited by Tony LEE on Saturday 13th of March 2021 10:25:29 PM

-- Edited by Tony LEE on Saturday 13th of March 2021 10:29:40 PM

clancee · Member

Hi i have a 13ft poptop, i fitted a 2kw diesel i brought on ebay. it works so well and fuel usage is cheap as, its the way to go, i payed about 200 very good cheers terry take care.