The (Unsatisfactory) Status of the Caravan Industry in Australia Part 3: Government Regulatory Issues

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

RE: The (Unsatisfactory) Status of the Caravan Industry in Australia Part 3: Government Regulatory Issues

Trailer Sailer · Senior Member

Hi Tony Lee and others. My statement about relative towing weights was meant to highlight that one size fits all lowest common denominator legislation is not the way I feel the world should go. Just like with individually certifying new caravans or motorhomes also being discussed any legislation needs a route for specific engineering certification of the safety of a well sorted towing setup not a blanket approach based on some arbitrary weight percentage not taking into account other relevant factors. I have previously struggled with inflexible laws around these type of issues which do not allow sound engineering and appropriate certification to overcome inflexible laws.

I am always happy to have an engineer review and certify but much legislation around these matters is written without any path for this type of review often stifling innovation and cementing mediocrity.

-- Edited by Trailer Sailer on Thursday 4th of February 2021 03:45:34 AM

bgt · Guru

Trailer Sailer I agree. As an ex sailor, JOG, I know about formulas. Yachts have formulas to calculate ratings/handicaps. It can't be rocket science to find a formula that tales into account various aspects of vehicle and trailer combinations. The problem is that the authorities want a 'simple' solution that as you say hasn't got a simple solution.

One of the problems is that towing towed combinations can change. ie you have a caravan and buy a new tow vehicle. Whereas it's easy to get an engineered certificate for a motorhome. If we have to have heavy vehicles inspected every year why cant we have the tow and towed certified as a unit and that combination carries a certificate? (Not every year but initially).

Keep in mind the weakest point. You can think you have everything 'right' but then just one component in the formula can let you down. Years ago we had a 35ft motorhome in the USA. Built on a Ford chassis just like thousands of other motorhomes. For other reasons we had to have an inspection. The inspector found the Ford front springs insufficient. Long story but Ford was made to upgrade the springs on our motorhome. I have no idea about the other thousands built on a Ford chassis. But it only takes one weak link in the chain. A one size fits all rule wont capture those weak links.

There is also another weak link. It's OK to get a caravan prototype certified. But what about the affects of options? The above mentioned motorhome in the USA had Corian counter tops which are heavy. The kitchen was towards the front left side. Also on that side was a large fridge. And underneath was the generator and batteries. So while the 'model' of motorhome was certified by the RVIA that particular floor plan/option combination wasn't. Thus the over weight on the front sprints. I'm not aware of current Australian regulations but in the USA each unit is put on the scales. Each wheel weight is recorded. Then a sticker with those weights are adhered to the inside of every RV in a kitchen cupboard. So you simply go inside. Open the kitchen cupboard and there is the final weight, with options as the unit stands. Yes you then have to take into account water and waste plus personal items. So do Australian manufacturers have such a system of weight every units as it leaves the factory? If not should they?

-- Edited by bgt on Thursday 4th of February 2021 08:55:13 AM

Avaner · Newbie

Guys, If they start with the 30% rule there would be a lot of trucks stood down,

Example! I drive a PBS rated truck and dog.

The Kenworth (fully loaded) weighs 23T- the trailer (fully loaded) weighs in at 34T Total of 57T,

In my calcs this works out to be approx 32% with the tail waging the dog? Also what about all the A/B doubles running around on our roads??

Can`t see there being a 30%rule. But hey I`ve been wrong before.

Cheers

montie · Guru

Avaner wrote:
Guys, If they start with the 30% rule there would be a lot of trucks stood down,

Example! I drive a PBS rated truck and dog.

The Kenworth (fully loaded) weighs 23T- the trailer (fully loaded) weighs in at 34T Total of 57T,

In my calcs this works out to be approx 32% with the tail waging the dog? Also what about all the A/B doubles running around on our roads??

Can`t see there being a 30%rule. But hey I`ve been wrong before.

Cheers

There is no suggestion that the Road Vehicles Standards Act will change towing laws. That issue is covered by another authority.

There is no regulation covering tug/van ratio at the moment so it's just a matter of peoples opinion.

Trailer Sailer · Senior Member

Hi All Vehicle manufactures are obviously involved in a marketing race for stated towing capacities in my view. However given their GVMs and their GCMs would nearly always result in the towing vehicle being lighter than any over 3 ton towed trailer/caravan package then I cannot believe they have completely ignored the engineering involved in doing this. If it wasnt at least potentially safe if done correctly then they would be sued for sure.
Whilst accepting that no one is actually planning to implement this at this point in time this whole thread was created in response to a lobby group ( or perhaps I find now lobby person ) pushing for just this.
People then jumping on board stating its too dangerous to tow with a lighter vehicle than the towed package further push this opinion and ultimately regulators sometimes cave into pressure hence my attempt to gently and respectfully push back with an alternative view point.

Tony LEE · Guru

Can't be anything other than lowest common denominator based on physically measurable parameters. You have a fancy caravan hooked to an old tug because your fancy tug broke down. Or your fancy stability control failed, or wasn't set up properly, or you didn't switch it on. No different with speed limits is it. Think of the chaos if vehicles were given a speed limit depending on their technical excellence but without factoring in driver skills, weather, road conditions. In the real world...

Trailer Sailer · Senior Member

Hi Tony I will beg to disagree. Based on your proposal our whole lives need to be legislated and dictated by the worst possible case outcomes. Stairs! you cant have stairs someone might fall down them. All cars without 5 star NCAP safety ratings need to be immediately removed from the roads as otherwise you could have someone killed in an accident! I can assure you there would be a lot less deaths on our roads if all maximum speed limits were set to 20kph all around Australia. I am just being provocative I know but this is the path that lowest common denominator thinking eventually leads too in my view.

Life is a constant risk versus reward balance and lowest common denominator is stifling to innovation, experience, fun and life generally In my view. My view is be careful what you wish for!

-- Edited by Trailer Sailer on Thursday 4th of February 2021 05:18:34 PM

-- Edited by Trailer Sailer on Thursday 4th of February 2021 05:22:30 PM