Two friends I was due to meet in east Gippsland in the middle of Jan are now stranded near Eden so our meeting won't happen.

NSW really should learn from the situation in Vic this year; make masks compulsory, stop the bloody test match!, ban public gatherings over X people etc. Do it now and they won't need to do it for long but carry on dithering and it could get really nasty.

Me? Think I'll stay in this beautiful small forest for a while longer, been here two weeks and not seen a soul: got phone, TV, infinite firewood and a dam for washing/laundry water - for what more could a nomad ask? :)

dogbox wrote:

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a couple of cold beers an you could be set for life

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I forgot to mention a supply of cider, wine and whisky plus a fridge freezer to keep them cool :)

Mike. I agree. Stop the test match. They say just 24,000 at the SCG will be spread out around the ground. But what about at the entrance gates, food stalls etc. I think those in charge cant swallow their pride and go back on their decisions.
Stay safe everyone.

So glad I decided on a brief Xmas visit to the Grandkids in Vic rather than staying till after new year, because although the S.A. boarder is still open, it's good to be home drama free.
Also glad I took the precaution of doing most of the shopping in S.A. before we left so we were able to avoid shopping in Fountaingate, so we are unlikely to have been exposed.
But most of all so glad we got to make meaningful memories with the little ones before things started to go bunta again.
My heart goes out to all of you who are missing family.
It's hard and frustrating living with the uncertainty and the closures ext. But trust me it's better then the alternative, my sister-in-law is a nurse in the U.K. and what she has seen is not pretty. She is young and healthy but is struggling to get her strength back after catching Covid and has a cough that will not go away.

Just some food for thought.

People in WA need to be aware. There are cases of Covid19 in that state. It is not Cv19 free, they are people in quarantine who have the disease, and as such there is a risk, low they it may be.

Just as it escaped from quarantine in SA and Victoria, where the systems were considered safe, it will only take one wrong or silly move, and it may be back into the community. Any system that has people and decisions involved is not 100% secure.

I hope it doesnt happen, but dont think hard borders are a guarantee of protection. SA and Victoria prove they arent!

Dead Right,We had a few nutcases escaped from hotels,got them back quick,tested negative.

Hotel lockup is the weak link everwhere.

Victoria by all media reports here,Hotel Security people used had no proper training ,looks like a bent deal when contracts let out.

Reports defence personal offered,refusedby Vic goverment.cheers roker.

Yes I think they need to go hard on all returning overseas travellers, consider making the rules for returning tougher.
For those who have "chosen" to either live(part time) or work overseas you go to the very back of the list or stay put!
Those that are returning to Australia, they should be isolated, NOT IN CITY HOTELS! but elsewhere

Lets face it, its only for 2 weeks.
regards
Ian

-- Edited by Wanda on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 12:49:44 PM

-- Edited by Wanda on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 01:28:30 PM

-- Edited by Wanda on Sunday 3rd of January 2021 01:30:38 PM

I know I'm the odd one out here. But talking of those you can't believe. How about the media? Todays headlines read 'NSW struggling to contain out break'. Well NSW recorded 0 cases today. Victoria 3. So are we going to live an uncertain life forever as the virus will be with us forever.

When are folks going to concede that elimination isn't possible. Learning to live with it is possible.

My dad (who lived in the U.K.) died of Covid during the 1st wave. Only 3 people were allowed to his funeral (obviously  not  me) he lived in aged care he was unable to be taken to hospital because they were full. In an emergency situation like a pandemic it has to be the most likely to survive that get treatment; I understand  that and he probably would have died anyway. But he was my dad and I loved him. Please be patient and learn to live with border closers and the uncertainties all this causes UNTIL we have vaccinations universally rolled out. Because, just letting it run it's course is an inhumane option.

Everyone is ignoring my question. Even with a vaccine the virus will still be around. So I ask again. At what point do we learn to live with the virus? People die on the roads all the time. We accept that risk. Every time you get on the road you are taking a risk. Yet we can stop the road toll tomorrow by banning driving. We don't accept that banning driving is a viable option. We don't ban smoking but we manage the risk with various actions. Yet folks still take that risk. Passive smoking kills yet we still accept smoking as a risk. My point is that eliminating covid maynot/isn't an option. So how do we live with it? The common flu kills. Yet we take and manage the risk with vaccines that still don't guarantee a flu free society. Will covid be any different? We can get Australia covid free. Sure we can. But do we stop all international travel ? All international trade? No planes with people or freight. No ships bringing in good and sending out exports. So Australia will always be vulnerable to new out breaks. Do we shut down everytime? I know many folks have lost all their logic and reasoning with covid. The media has scared everyone with dramatic headlines. Rather than exploring ways to live with covid we are trying to pretend it will go away and we will all live happily ever after. I know I'm preaching to those who have fixed views. But I'm just asking to look at the big picture. Sure I have personal interests but I'm also realistic enough to know that we have to have measures to manage covid. And locking everything up isn't the answer.

Hi bgt
Without giving or taking any offence, I will attempt to answer your latest questions

I speak only for myself

Everyone is ignoring my question. Even with a vaccine the virus will still be around. So I ask again. At what point do we learn to live with the virus?
I will happy live my life around the virus, when someone can prove, that the rest of mankind, do the right thing and follow directions, when they are told to quarantine, so that they do not become spreaders

People die on the roads all the time. We accept that risk. Every time you get on the road you are taking a risk. Yet we can stop the road toll tomorrow by banning driving. We don't accept that banning driving is a viable option.
When I go on the road, I have the choice of being a responsible driver, with a very good chance of surviving my journey. If I was an irresponsible driver, driving like I stole it/speeding/tied/boozed/drugged/mechanical defects etc, etc, etc. I probably would not realise, that I was a statistic waiting to happen

We don't ban smoking but we manage the risk with various actions. Yet folks still take that risk. Passive smoking kills yet we still accept smoking as a risk.
Some people are still addicted to smoking, (it took me about 10 years of trying, before I could give it up). The authorities are trying to stamp it out. I am still young enough to remember some health people saying, that there is no conclusive proof, that smoking causes cancer.

My point is that eliminating covid maynot/isn't an option. So how do we live with it?
We live with Covid-19, and all its known mutants, by obeying the directions of the health authorities.

The common flu kills. Yet we take and manage the risk with vaccines that still don't guarantee a flu free society. Will covid be any different?
Perhaps not, as it is probably too late to eliminate all the known mutants of flu, but while Covid-19 is still young, there may be a chance of eliminating it

We can get Australia covid free. Sure we can. But do we stop all international travel ? All international trade? No planes with people or freight. No ships bringing in good and sending out exports. So Australia will always be vulnerable to new out breaks. Do we shut down everytime?
We do not have much options, except to shut down every time there is an outbreak, otherwise Covid-19 could overwhelm our medical facilities

I know many folks have lost all their logic and reasoning with covid. The media has scared everyone with dramatic headlines. Rather than exploring ways to live with covid we are trying to pretend it will go away and we will all live happily ever after.
There is nothing stopping anyone, anywhere, trying to explore ways of living with Covid-19. If someone can find a way to do so, then I would probably embrace it.

I know I'm preaching to those who have fixed views. But I'm just asking to look at the big picture. Sure I have personal interests but I'm also realistic enough to know that we have to have measures to manage covid. And locking everything up isn't the answer.
I like to think, that I do not have fixed views. I try to look at both sides of an argument. Up to date I have not seen anything better than total lockdowns, to stop the Covid-19, from marching onwards towards me, my loved ones, my family, my friends, my town, my State, and my Country

Well said Tony. Pretty much nailed it.

A lot of it comes down to how transmissible a disease is, how lethal it is, and how easy it is to control. Look at polio, smallpox, measles. Should we have given up on those just because success wasn't a 5 minute job. Flu? Not too transmissible and not too lethal and control is gradually improving. Covid-19 - seems very transmissible, especially the new variant, not particularly lethal unless you are in the same group which also cop it from the flu So that leaves controllability. Why are some of you throwing in the towel just as a whole heap of vaccines are being rolled out. I'm glad the scientists and politicians are considerably more optimistic than the wingers and defeatists

I have a data and statistic background. So I'm always looking at the figures/facts.


We know the facts but many tend to ignore them. There have been 2 covid related deaths in Australia in about 5 months. We know that those most affected and in danger are those over 70. We know from the ABS figures that many elderly die from flu like illnesses not related to covid. www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release
We also know our weak link is the international border.

So why isn't there a greater emphasis on protecting the vulnerable and our international border?

I'm not saying we should throw our collective hands in the air and do what Sweden tried to do. Sure there are measures we can all live with and accept. But we need to put everything into perspective.

And comparing Australia to other countries like the USA and the UK is a pointless argument. Other countries have unique circumstances that don't exist here in Australia. I lived in the USA for about 8 years. I know how many think about 'restrictions' etc. The UK has a population density that's unlike Australia. So many variables. (Compare France with Germany. Why the big difference there?)

Imagine how many lives we would have saved now and into the future if just a fraction of the covid money had been spent on research for breast cancer, prostrate cancer, etc etc.

Keep it all in perspective. If you are worried for your own personal health do what I do and take responsibility for it. Avoid crowds. Wash your hand etc etc. Don't rely on governments to look after you 24 hours a day.
Don't just look at the pessimistic headlines. Look at covid from all angles and keep it all in perspective.

Yes I accept some will cherry pick what I have said. That's normal!