Single axle caravans

hodgie55 · Veteran Member

Single axle caravans

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Hi Ian, I chose duel axle because I thought if I had a blowout or similar one side there was another next to it until I could stop safely. I was also told they are easier to move into a tight spot. So far so good and more than happy with my choice.

BAZZA44 · Senior Member

I would think 16ft for what you want to do, unless you will be doing extreme off road then shorter will be better.

Barry

hodgie55 · Veteran Member

Thanks for that Dougwe,I always had the same opinion as what you have but my lady and i are considering all our options as we will be buying something very soon to head off around this great country if the dreaded virus allows us to.

hodgie55 · Veteran Member

Thanks Bazza44,no definitely want to get out into the bush but not intending to do any extreme offroading.

DMaxer · Guru

I have a Windsor Genesis which is single axle and just under 18 foot long. It is not an off-road van. I love it. Easy to tow and back and weighs a little over two tonne loaded. I wondered about single axle but after contacting the manufacturer and having the reasons explained to me I understood. Great vans in my opinion.

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

We own a 17' 6" off road Goldstream, we take it pretty much anywhere we like, we don't do the extreme 4x4 stuff but it has been into some interesting places, below is a video our son took of us getting into Top Crossing Hut here in Vict

www.facebook.com/171515292920140/videos/2073618682709782

travelyounger · Guru

hodgie55 wrote:
Was wondering peoples thoughts on single axle caravans,what you consider should be a safe length/best length to tow around in an offroad van behind a 4x4 ute.Do many people use the single axle offroad vans.Appreciate your thoughts.Thanks Ian

My thoughts on single axle vans

When I first started looking at vans the new age Manta ray full off road single axle 18 foot which I think is the maximum length you would want on a single axle was our choice but ended up with a fulcher galaxy tandem road van instead .The positives of single are they are lighter and easy to turn and much easier to tow through sand if you are into that and most of the late model vans are quite well laid out and spacious for their size. Some say they sway when being towed at 100 or more km ph I have followed some but have never witnessed this myself I think a lot has to do with the builder of the van balancing everything out especially water and grey tanks being full when towed . The negatives are as Dougwe mentioned is the extra wheel which has happened to myself coming back from the cape and I destroyed a tyre unaware that it blew until I saw in the mirror.The payload on most single axle vans is to low at around 400 kg which might be ok for weekends away but not great for big trips unless you travel light and obviously the extra length of duel axle vans have much higher payload and comforts.There are some companies that build 18 foot vans that are duel axle and have payloads off up to 1000 kg and are very capable off road as they have a very good departure angle at rear of van if the length is a concern .I now have a 206 full off road which I am quite happy with and tows perfect but if I was to downsize I would stay with the duel axle van .
Cheers John

dieseltojo · Senior Member

I'm with Dougwe

I had a singe wheeler and had that blow out. Then I spent 4 hours with a borrowed ark welder fixing the problem on a Sunday in a n out of the way town. Just good luck I can weld and a good bloke lent the welder.

I had a bearing fail in Parks with the dual axle van and it was no problem at all. I also like the stability and better weight distribution of the cargo area.

Only contributing here as I have had them both and helped folks out all over the place. But I respect any ones decision on a light van to go single.

montie · Guru

hodgie55 wrote:
Was wondering peoples thoughts on single axle caravans,what you consider should be a safe length/best length to tow around in an offroad van behind a 4x4 ute.Do many people use the single axle offroad vans.Appreciate your thoughts.Thanks Ian

16ft is probably the ideal length for a single axle van with Cruisemaster or similar off road suspension.

erad · Guru

I have a 16.5 ft Jayco Poptop van - single axle. There has been a lot of discussion about single vs dual axles - the general opinion being that in the event of a blowout, the van may swing wildly and even turn over. My experience is far from that. Our van is over 20 years old and we have done over 130000 km with it. I have had 2 blowouts and each time the only indication was slightly more drag and some extra road noise. No swaying, no antics, just extra drag and noise.

The first occasion was on the Bruce Hwy at 100 - 110 km/h in heavy traffic. That was fun. It was just over the crest of a hill and I had nowhere to pull over. The left side of the van was hard into the bushes on the roadside and my wife had to crawl through the car to get out the R side and go back over 200 m to start alerting oncoming drives there was a problem ahead. I changed the tyre with my back right on the edge of the bitumen. Naturally a stinking hot day as well...

The second time was on a narrow winding road near Bathurst. About 5 km of double line. I was travelling about 60 km/h and heard a bit of a rumbling noise and felt slight extra drag, but I out the noise down to the road surface and the drag to the hill I was climbing. Eventually, I saw in the mirror a car flashing its headlights and guessed something was wrong. I had to go on nearly a km before I could safely pull over into a driveway before i stopped. The rim took quite a battering but it was buffed up and repainted and is still on the van.

I now have a set of tyre pressure monitors, although I don't really trust them. I still stop after 20 km or so each morning and check the temperatures of all the tyres - the tug and the van. But even then, both of the above failures occurred after hours of travel, so even this check is not failsafe.

I have had lots of trouble with tyre wear. This is due to poor manufacturing tolerances - the tyres had about 10 mm toe-out when the van was new and I wore out a set of tyres in about 18000km. That was a real bunfight with Jayco because they had mounted the axle about 20 mm offset as well. Great quality control there. Eventually the axle manufacturer replaced the axle, but only after I had worn another 3 sets of tyres out. Even now, the axle has 5 mm toe-in, and I suspect that the tyres are still wearing badly. But they have done nearly 40000 km now, which is at least double what I was getting before.

About 17 feet seems to be the maximum length most van manufacturers go to before they go to dual axles. I think that the loading on the axles is getting near the maximum for long-term reliability. Longer vans equals more weight.

JayDee · Guru

We had one of those European 18ft vans single axles. It served us well as we traveled from Brisbane to Cooktown then to Tassie plus a trip to Winton.

But!!! I was not happy with the number of sways and buffeting which we experienced in all those KLM's.

For my money, a dual axle is a far safer and peace of mind than a single axle.

We have a 22 ft Coromal semi of Road, and I have never.... never ... experienced and sway with this excellent rig.

As mention previously, We had a flat tyre on a trip along the Murray and did not know this until we stopped for lunch.

4 V 2 anyday.

Jay&Dee

-- Edited by JayDee on Sunday 20th of December 2020 09:29:36 AM

dogbox · Guru

there are plenty of hy-brid caravans / campertrailers on steroids' ranging from 11' to 18' your choice would depend on how far "off-road" you plan to go and what level of home comfort you need /want.

use quality tyres an a reliable tpms an a lot of the concerns about single tyres can be avoided. tyres have improved a lot. flat tyres and blow outs use to be a fairly common thing ,but with regular inspection of tyres most can be avoided

Possum3 · Guru

In my opinion; a tandem axle with leaf sprung rocker suspension will handle most gazetted roads/tracks in Australia. If going for light weight single axle then leaf sprung vehicles would be my choice probably with slipper springs.
My experience with independent suspensions convinces me that being "out there" when something goes wrong, it is nigh on impossible to carry on without causing much further damage to van, as they normally can't be jerry rigged with a bit of fence wire to limp along until adequate repair facilities are available.
If staying on bitumen and only off road inside a caravan park on the lawn - independent suspension may do the job.

The chassis strength, draw bar length and coupling configuration are what the OP should consider most seriously.

For Engineering information regarding choosing the correct/most suitable "undercarriage" download free technical advise and check lists at www.caravancouncil.com.au/

yobarr · Guru

JayDee wrote:
We had one of those European 18ft vans single axles. It served us well as we traveled from Brisbane to Cooktown then to Tassie plus a trip to Winton.
But!!! I was not happy with the number of sways and buffeting which we experienced in all those KLM's.
For my money, a dual axle is a far safer and peace of mind than a single axle.
We have a 22 ft Coromal semi of Road, and I have never.... never ... experienced and sway with this excellent rig.
As mention previously, We had a flat tyre on a trip along the Murray and did not know this until we stopped for lunch.
4 V 2 anyday.
Jay&Dee
-- Edited by JayDee on Sunday 20th of December 2020 09:29:36 AM

Hi John...As you are no doubt aware,your van has what was known as a "Symon's Knee" suspension system,first used by Coromal in 1975. Once a caravan develops a sway,the problem is quickly exacerbated by "axle steer",where the axle(s) no longer remain at 90 degrees to the chassis rails,so the van steers left,then right,then left as it sways.This often ends in grief.Because of the unique "wishbone" design of the Coromal suspension,where the wishbones are hinged directly off the chassis rails,these are the only vans that never develop axle steer.This,along with your sensible driving,will be why you never experience sway.As an aside,the suspension now is called "Melbourne trailers" suspension,in the unlikely even you'll ever need spares.Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 20th of December 2020 11:53:23 AM

HandyWalter · Senior Member

I have a 2016 New Age Manta Ray 16' Deluxe. it is single axle. Supposidly off road but is no way ready for any real rough stuff if just bought off the show room floor and taken on any old dirt road unless you want to travel at 40kph or lower. After many mods inside and out and underneath protection, it has been bullet proof for the past 2 years. It has a 400kg payload, but with the removal (or is that they fell off) of the glass shower door and the ensuite sliding door, I was able to put in an extra water tank (now have 200ltrs) and still be under all the max weights loaded up. It has its compromises, ie the middle of the van is short, but the two ends (bed one end and ensuite the other) are the same as any bigger van. And that is the main issue with the van as for living. If its cold and wet, we are a bit cramped sitting inside. If the van was just 12" long ideal. Being single axle it is far easier to man handle and and also do sharp turns. The issue of 4 tyres being safer in a blow out is just BS. Get a TPMS and it will tell you of any tyre problem well before you notice it. In any case I replace my tyres every 40K just as a precaution. Except for this year, I do at least two big trips a year as I have a son in Perth and another Byron Bay, so I have racked up plenty of kms doing the Great Short Cut or figures of 8 or half laps of Aus, on many different roads and tracks. I do not travel slowly....some would say I travel way too fast but I have never felt the ESC or anti sway kick in from either the van or my vehicle. When I was looking in 2016, I narrowed my inspections to Crusader and New Age. Both the same price. The Crusader was 12" longer but had a lot less features than the Manta Ray. Perhaps it was a better base model in being off road, but on reflection my partner would not be without the washing machine, heater, leather seats, filtered water, grey water tank, outside shower facilities and me the outside Sizzler BBQ. They dont make them like that at New Age anymore, despite the options to upgrade. I have often toyed with the idea of getting a van just 12" longer but still being single axle, but what I want costs north of $80K now and I just dont think the extra 12" is worth that extra cost for the few times it is an inconvenience to be squeezed indoors when the weather is nasty.

hodgie55 · Veteran Member

Thanks everyone for the information coming through as greatly appreciated.Trying everything to see if we are able to keep our Mazda bt50 4x4 as not very old but would definitely prefer a dual axle van but ute is going to struggle to tow that safely/legally.Yobarr has given us a few ideas of what would be suitable (which we have been thankful for)so just looking at all our options currently as we will be buying something in January.Be it another tow vehicle,4x4 motorhome as long as we are going to be legal,safe and comfortable as possible.Many Thanks everyone.Ian

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

We have a single axled van, shade under 18' long. It's an Outback, handles dirt, gravel ok. Don't need ESC as it handles all conditions well.
We had a blowout just east of Hughenden on Good Friday, last year. There was minimal sway but it was a HOT day, with little room to get off the road safely. But we did it ok.

Yes, I'd like a tandem to take a little more load but handling one in my drive, carport would be impossible.

I ensure that if I'm going to travel on gravel, stoney roads that I have good rubber on both the car & van.

yobarr · Guru

hodgie55 wrote:
Thanks everyone for the information coming through as greatly appreciated.Trying everything to see if we are able to keep our Mazda bt50 4x4 as not very old but would definitely prefer a dual axle van but ute is going to struggle to tow that safely/legally.Yobarr has given us a few ideas of what would be suitable (which we have been thankful for)so just looking at all our options currently as we will be buying something in January.Be it another tow vehicle,4x4 motorhome as long as we are going to be legal,safe and comfortable as possible.Many Thanks everyone.Ian

Hi Ian...Your present car has a GCM of 6000kg,and GVM of 3200kg,so with very careful loading of both car and van,you can safely tow a van up to about 3100kg ATM. With 10% towball weight of 300kg,you would then have GTM,or weight on van wheels,of 2800kg.On paper,you then will have weight on car wheels of 3200kg and weight on van wheels of 2800kg=6000kg GCM.This is impossible to achieve,but provided your van has an ATM of no more than 3100kg, you will be OK.As explained,the weak point is the 1850kg rear axle capacity of your car,but you may be able to get a GVM upgrade (?) to get around that? Whilst I can understand your reluctance to dispose of your "not very old" BT50,realistically,if you want to tow more than 3100kg ATM, AND carry 'stuff' in your car's tray,you have NO choice,no matter how much you try to juggle your weights.First stop,for me,would be the dealer whose name I provided in a PM to you...he is very honest,and very knowledgeable with regards to weights.Realistically,your present car will not do what you have told us you plan to do,unless you wish to play around with a single axle van that yis no more than 16' long,and weighs no more than 3100kg ATM....then we are up in to 16" wheels and 12" brake territory,I think? I will check these figures,and amend if necessary.Cheers.

-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 20th of December 2020 07:11:40 PM

hodgie55 · Veteran Member

Had been looking at On the Move Traxx caravans which are 17ft 6 which i thought may be stretching things in my opinion as i thought it was a bit long for a single wheel van but it has a lot of the things we would like in a van and the van weight would be ok for our Mazda bt50.But we are thinking going to have to buy a better tow vehicle and can then get a better gvm van.Have also been looking at offroad 4x4 motorhomes as looking at all options as we want to get it right from the start and be happy with what ever we choose.

yobarr · Guru

hodgie55 wrote:
Had been looking at On the Move Traxx caravans which are 17ft 6 which i thought may be stretching things in my opinion as i thought it was a bit long for a single wheel van but it has a lot of the things we would like in a van and the van weight would be ok for our Mazda bt50.But we are thinking going to have to buy a better tow vehicle and can then get a better gvm van.Have also been looking at offroad 4x4 motorhomes as looking at all options as we want to get it right from the start and be happy with what ever we choose.

Ian,that brand of caravan seems to have only good reviews,having won its class for 'Best Aussie Caravan' in both 2015 and 2016.Never having heard of them until today,I can offer no useful advice,but they seem to admirably suit your needs if you wish to keep your BT50? Cheers

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

erad wrote:
About 17 feet seems to be the maximum length most van manufacturers go to before they go to dual axles. I think that the loading on the axles is getting near the maximum for long-term reliability. Longer vans equals more weight.

Axles are no limitation whatever. My trailer has a 2.5T single axle and 3.5T wheel bearings. A larger capacity axle is just a bit heavier.

We had a single axle trailer with a chipper mounted here some time ago. It had a ATM of 4.5T and ran on 17"rims and tyres.

And I have a theory about the relative stabilities of single axles Vs tandem axles.

There is no question that a tandem axle wants to go in a straight line whereas a single axle is easy to steer.

That is great while everything is going fine, but if the van gets seriously "out of line" for any reason, that single axle van can be brought back into line easily, but the tandem axle van is likely to continue strongly off line and resist attempts to be straightened.

Cheers,

Peter

Eaglemax · Guru

Hodgie- My 16ft caravan is a single axle. I've never felt sway more than 25-40mm at the rear corners of the van and that was on a windy day on a crest in the Geelong bypass. Then again my van atm is 998kg and I don't exceed 95kph. If you want to tow 2500kg plus and intent to do the speed limit, both common desires nowadays- hell knows why!) then a dual axle would be my preference. Not that a 2500kg+ atm van would give me anymore luxuries than what I have now. Tony

Possum3 · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Ian,that brand of caravan seems to have only good reviews,having won its class for 'Best Aussie Caravan' in both 2015 and 2016.Never having heard of them until today,I can offer no useful advice,but they seem to admirably suit your needs if you wish to keep your BT50? Cheers

May I respectfully advise that as the OTM caravans are on the Lemon Caravan & RV's "Buyer Beware List" as having multiple unfavourable reports.

yobarr · Guru

Possum3 wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Ian,that brand of caravan seems to have only good reviews,having won its class for 'Best Aussie Caravan' in both 2015 and 2016.Never having heard of them until today,I can offer no useful advice,but they seem to admirably suit your needs if you wish to keep your BT50? Cheers
May I respectfully advise that as the OTM caravans are on the Lemon Caravan & RV's "Buyer Beware List" as having multiple unfavourable reports.

Thanks Possum...I must admit that I spent only a small amount of time searching for reviews,and found only 'good stuff',so posted accordingly. However,I would like to say that,in view of the fact that any "Buyer Beware" list is invariably contributed to only by those who have found something, anything, to bleat and moan about,I would treat any such reviews with a degree of scepticism. Was there not such a site that recently was fined for maliciously and falsely claiming that a particular caravan brand was not of good quality? You,like me,will no doubt remember the days when 'Caveat Emptor (Buyer beware) was the order of the day? Nowdays,however,it seems that the buyer takes no responsibility for his actions,and will stamp his feet,screaming and yelling,until any perceived 'fault' is remedied to his satisfaction.Time for many to put on their "Big Boy" pants,me thinks,and bear responsibility for their own actions.Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 22nd of December 2020 01:05:17 AM

montie · Guru

On the Move Caravans have been in business since 2001 and are a reputable Australian builder that has won several awards over the years.

As Yobarr said instead of listening to negative reviews of little substance you should contact some current On the Move owners to get some genuine feedback.

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

not sure what all the debate is about, there is pro's and con's of both, it is a preference. We chose a single axle off road, coz we really do go 'off road', not just down some dirt tracks to a river and drive over some brown grass.

It is horses for courses. Tandem's give far better stability on the open road, but can be painful in tight area's or in 'real' off road situations, the matter of tyre blowouts is a bit of a furphy, tandem axles can get pretty ugly with a blow out, the same as a single axle. If you don't get ESC fitted then you are mad, in my opinion. Like any maintenance, tyre maintenance is just as important, when was the last time people actually looked all over their tyres, inside out, tread etc, pressures. What age they are? There is a date stamp on them

As for wheel bearings, well what can I say, if you do no other maintenance to your van then you MUST do the wheel bearings regularly, other than the tyres and rims, nothing else takes quite a beating, if there is slack in them and you are on a rough road/track then expect them to collapse. Wheel bearing collapse is just showing everyone you don't check or maintain your wheel bearings (or you bought cheap ones)

-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Wednesday 23rd of December 2020 04:30:50 AM

StewG · Senior Member

We have a JB Gator off-road van 17'10" or 7.5 metres from tip to tail overall. It is a full-height van and single axle. We had ESC fitted and tyre pressure monitoring. The tyres are large 265/75R16LT and we have had no stability or tyre issues to date. Although I did remove a 25 mm screw out of one tyre once - it failed to penetrate the thick tread (26 mm?). The ATM is 2.8T and we rarely have more than 2.6T on board. Manoeuvrability is good and clearance is massive. I have no experience of dual axles, but am happy with choice of single.

Nevd · Senior Member

Hi Hodgie - We have a 17'6" Sunseeker Mirage Sport with dual shock independent coil suspension - has everything we want for 2, including washing machine, ensuite, 185l fridge etc. Have been all over Qld several times, trips to WA, SA & Tassie - so well travelled. Our ATM is 2600 kg and that gives 600kg payload. We tend to load it towards max for longer trips. I have no issues whatsoever with sway, but did add Dexter ESC for peace of mind. I haven't had a blowout, but did have a fast leak which went unnoticed for 400 km - down to 30PSI from a regular 65PSI. Only reason I knew was a pressure check when I stopped. I've since bought bluetooth pressure monitors.
My point is if you have a well sorted van that can carry the stuff you want, single axle is fine.
Nev

Greg 1 · Guru

I currently tow a 21' van that has an ATM of 2980kgs and a 300kgs ball weight fully laden with a Ford Ranger, the sister car to your BT50. The Ranger handles it very well and your BT50 should handle a van of this weight the same as they are both built on the same mechanical platform. I have done 4 trips across the continent and back with the Ranger and it has handled everything I have chucked at it including several stiff climbs up the Great Dividing Range. I had the rig weighed just prior to departure on our last trip across and I was all legal still having a little up my sleeve on both car and van. Unless you are planning on buying a much larger and heavier van than mine, stick with your BT50. Great vehicle. With regards your original question regarding single axle van's, after decades of caravanning and having owned both single and dual axle vans, my preference is for anything over about 16' to have dual axle load sharing suspension. This is just from personal experience and my opinion. I am sure that there are some well set up single axle van's of larger size than that, but I am not a fan.