Fraser island

msg · Guru

RE: Fraser island

Rob Driver · Guru

If the large fire fighting aircraft were bought in WHEN THE FIRE FIRST BECAME A THREAT then there wouldnt be the eco damage as well as the economical damage and personal anguish that many have suffered.

Unfortunately it happens with regular monotony in this country that ground crews claim they have it under control only to have the wind increase or change direction and speed and what was a small fire is now one that is out of control.

My view is put it out quickly and efficiently when it first starts and not wait to see what happens.

Regards

Rob

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

bentaxlebabe wrote:
If the large fire fighting aircraft were bought in WHEN THE FIRE FIRST BECAME A THREAT then there wouldnt be the eco damage as well as the economical damage and personal anguish that many have suffered.

Unfortunately it happens with regular monotony in this country that ground crews claim they have it under control only to have the wind increase or change direction and speed and what was a small fire is now one that is out of control.

My view is put it out quickly and efficiently when it first starts and not wait to see what happens.

Regards

Rob

spot on Rob, a bloody shame

Brodie Allen · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
If the large fire fighting aircraft were bought in WHEN THE FIRE FIRST BECAME A THREAT then there wouldnt be the eco damage as well as the economical damage and personal anguish that many have suffered.

Unfortunately it happens with regular monotony in this country that ground crews claim they have it under control only to have the wind increase or change direction and speed and what was a small fire is now one that is out of control.

My view is put it out quickly and efficiently when it first starts and not wait to see what happens.

Regards

Rob

Those responsible for delaying the deployment of the aircraft must be called out.

Write to your MP.

"Fiddling while Fraser burns . . ."

Troll.

rgren2 · Guru

Having a fish on the western side of Fraser this morning, saw two helicopters and six float plane (in formation and they landed near the bottom end of Big Woody) and a single crop duster type. There looked to be fresh smoke north of Kingfisher.

yobarr · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
If the large fire fighting aircraft were bought in WHEN THE FIRE FIRST BECAME A THREAT then there wouldnt be the eco damage as well as the economical damage and personal anguish that many have suffered.

Unfortunately it happens with regular monotony in this country that ground crews claim they have it under control only to have the wind increase or change direction and speed and what was a small fire is now one that is out of control.

My view is put it out quickly and efficiently when it first starts and not wait to see what happens.
Regards
Rob

Rob,at last we are in concurrence on something! Your post succinctly explains the facts,and seems,to me,to be no more than common sense. Unfortunately,common sense is conspicuous by its absence amongst the current scourge of Greenies,do gooders and Govt agents. Cheers

Rob Driver · Guru

yobarr wrote:

bentaxlebabe wrote:
If the large fire fighting aircraft were bought in WHEN THE FIRE FIRST BECAME A THREAT then there wouldnt be the eco damage as well as the economical damage and personal anguish that many have suffered.

Unfortunately it happens with regular monotony in this country that ground crews claim they have it under control only to have the wind increase or change direction and speed and what was a small fire is now one that is out of control.

My view is put it out quickly and efficiently when it first starts and not wait to see what happens.
Regards
Rob
Rob,at last we are in concurrence on something! Your post succinctly explains the facts,and seems,to me,to be no more than common sense. Unfortunately,common sense is conspicuous by its absence amongst the current scourge of Greenies,do gooders and Govt agents. Cheers

Thanks yobarr

got to agree it is pretty simple.

Have a Safe and Merry Xmas

Regards

Rob and Angie

yobarr · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
yobarr wrote:

bentaxlebabe wrote:
If the large fire fighting aircraft were bought in WHEN THE FIRE FIRST BECAME A THREAT then there wouldnt be the eco damage as well as the economical damage and personal anguish that many have suffered.

Unfortunately it happens with regular monotony in this country that ground crews claim they have it under control only to have the wind increase or change direction and speed and what was a small fire is now one that is out of control.

My view is put it out quickly and efficiently when it first starts and not wait to see what happens.
Regards
Rob
Rob,at last we are in concurrence on something! Your post succinctly explains the facts,and seems,to me,to be no more than common sense. Unfortunately,common sense is conspicuous by its absence amongst the current scourge of Greenies,do gooders and Govt agents. Cheers
Thanks yobarr
got to agree it is pretty simple.
Have a Safe and Merry Xmas
Regards
Rob and Angie

And a safe and Happy Xmas,Rob and Angie,to you and your kin.Cheers

Brodie Allen · Guru

Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Fuel on the ground again !!

From an earlier thread this year:

Screen Shot 2020-12-11 at 1.52.41 pm.png

Without the arsonists it wouldn't matter how much "fuel" is on the ground.

Leaf litter rots down and is a major source of nutriment for constant growth.

Also provides important haven for all manner of critters.

Like i said - educate the dills starting in school.

No, I'm not a "Greenie".

Just say it how it is - have no interest in burned out, sterilised forests.

outlaw40 · Guru

Brodie Allen wrote:
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Fuel on the ground again !!

From an earlier thread this year:

Without the arsonists it wouldn't matter how much "fuel" is on the ground.
Leaf litter rots down and is a major source of nutriment for constant growth.
Also provides important haven for all manner of critters.
Like i said - educate the dills starting in school.
No, I'm not a "Greenie".
Just say it how it is - have no interest in burned out, sterilised forests.

Over the last 20 years I have had to extinguish at least 4 fires started by dry lightning strikes and I fuel reduction burn my place on average every 3 years , so fuel reduced , no arsonists and still fires . I can guarantee they would have been uncontrollable had I not managed fuel load , end of story . check out lightning trackers online .

Brodie Allen · Guru

Outlaw40

It's about numbers.

Can you say that fuel reduction could reduce something like 80% of fires?
The figures indicate that something like 80-odd percent of fires are human started.

There's always going to be lightning, but the number of fires started that way is insignificant
compared with human responsibility.

Can you deny that? There's an earlier post in this thread that you might have a look at.

Given the death and devastation that forest fires produce, and the carelessness and stupidity
of so many forest visitors, I can foresee that there will be a permanent TOTAL BAN of fires in
these places and the sooner the better.

Has the devastation that we have seen in the last few years really been worth whatever
benefit campers derive from their fire?

There's no excuse that I can think of that justifies fires in the forest. Indigenous had no alternative,
we certainly have. Unfortunately the primeval instinct overcomes brains and we have to have a fire.

outlaw40 · Guru

At absolutely no time did i say that camp fires are justified or necessary , to the contrary i think they should be banned buti think that saying 80% of all bushfires are from humans is a big leap . As for the statements made here that fuel load doesnt need to be removed well thats just b/s i personally live with it year in and year out an know and see the benifits both to me, my cattle and the native flora and fauna. So i will leave it at that because the pitt st experts know far more about it then me , real world experience means nothing .

yobarr · Guru

Brodie Allen wrote:

Can you say that fuel reduction could reduce something like 80% of fires?
The figures indicate that something like 80-odd percent of fires are human started. Indigenous had no alternative,we certainly have. Unfortunately the primeval instinct overcomes brains and we have to have a fire.

What part of "No fuel means no fire" do you not understand? Our indigenous friends were smart enough to regularly conduct backburns to get rid of undegrowth,regrowth and fallen limbs etc, thus minimising the amount of the fuel that is needed by a fire,whether that fire was man-made,or caused by nature.Unlike some,these people were smart enough to realise that "No fuel means no fire" Cheers.

-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 12th of December 2020 10:46:35 AM

Phillipn · Guru

I have repeated this post below.. Until all the costal country east of Grafton was taken over for a national park, cattle were graized their in the winter. The cattle were taken off the in the early spring. As they were being moves the whole area was burnt to clean up the growth from the previous year. The fires were at ground level only, no tree top fires.

With the summer rain their was a good covering of grass for the next winter.

Now all the area is national park and is all thick undergrowth, with no annual burning is a disaster waiting to happen because the national parks don`t know how to mannage the bush.

"What`s it take to get they the message across"

When will they ever learn to do burn offs at least every second year to reduce the fuel load???? When a fire starts by what ever means, regular burn offs would stop tree top fires that are impossible to control.

When will the so called educated [ idoits] learn by their mistakes. My guess is never.

Brodie Allen · Guru

Are we going to do burn-offs in for instance, all the National Parks so that idiots can
mishandle their cigarette butts, campfires and etc.?

Talk about putting the cart before the horse!

Outside of lightning, which represents only a tiny percentage of fires, who would
advocate these scarring and murderous deliberate fires to save idiots from their
own stupidity?

Bloody hard to protect some people from themselves - No responsibility - burn it
anyway and then we can relax and chuck the butt out the window.

Nothing pristine any more!!

Where's the climate change whiners about the release of carbon dioxide into the
atmosphere?

Couple of years ago in the Centre we saw thousands of acres of burnt out from a
"burn-off" that had become a burn-out! Some of the slow growing bush will be
hundreds of years regenerating.

And Fraser Island has large areas of this slow growing bush - and it is quite impossible
to underburn this because of it's low habit - so it could be construed that the current
burn is a good thing by the firebugs!!

EDUCATION, PROSECUTIONS, keep Australia pristine, not a charcoal bin.

End of subject from me.

outlaw40 · Guru

Brodie Allen wrote:
Are we going to do burn-offs in for instance, all the National Parks so that idiots can
mishandle their cigarette butts, campfires and etc.?

Talk about putting the cart before the horse!

Outside of lightning, which represents only a tiny percentage of fires, who would
advocate these scarring and murderous deliberate fires to save idiots from their
own stupidity?

Bloody hard to protect some people from themselves - No responsibility - burn it
anyway and then we can relax and chuck the butt out the window.

Nothing pristine any more!!

Where's the climate change whiners about the release of carbon dioxide into the
atmosphere?

Couple of years ago in the Centre we saw thousands of acres of burnt out from a
"burn-off" that had become a burn-out! Some of the slow growing bush will be
hundreds of years regenerating.

And Fraser Island has large areas of this slow growing bush - and it is quite impossible
to underburn this because of it's low habit - so it could be construed that the current
burn is a good thing by the firebugs!!

EDUCATION, PROSECUTIONS, keep Australia pristine, not a charcoal bin.

End of subject from me.

GOOD biggrin biggrin

Go back to blocking traffic in Brisbane and leave the people with some knowledge of the land to manage the land

yobarr · Guru

Brodie Allen wrote:
Are we going to do burn-offs in for instance, all the National Parks so that idiots can
mishandle their cigarette butts, campfires and etc.?

Talk about putting the cart before the horse!

Outside of lightning, which represents only a tiny percentage of fires, who would
advocate these scarring and murderous deliberate fires to save idiots from their
own stu
Bloody hard to protect some people from themselves - No responsibility - burn it
anyway and then we can relax and chuck the butt out the window.

Nothing pristine any more!!

Where's the climate change whiners about the release of carbon dioxide into the
atmosphere?

Couple of years ago in the Centre we saw thousands of acres of burnt out from a
"burn-off" that had become a burn-out! Some of the slow growing bush will be
hundreds of years regenerating.

And Fraser Island has large areas of this slow growing bush - and it is quite impossible
to underburn this because of it's low habit - so it could be construed that the current
burn is a good thing by the firebugs!!

EDUCATION, PROSECUTIONS, keep Australia pristine, not a charcoal bin.

End of subject from me.

Again,I will ask what part of "No fuel,No fire" do you not understand? If you do not put fuel into your car's fuel tank,it is going nowhere.Same with fire....if the fire has NO FUEL it is going nowhere.As Auskiwi would say "Sheesh..". Cheers

Mike Harding · Guru

>Again,I will ask what part of "No fuel,No fire" do you not understand?

For the past two years I have used a camp in the bush (box ironbark forest) in central Victoria. It is just a piece of flat scrub deep in the forest but I like it.

There is plenty of firewood around my camp for a camp fire and I never need to walk more than 50m to find enough.

This forest is divided into blocks by dirt roads which served the gold miners of old. About one year past (when I was somewhere else) they did a burn-off of the block next to mine. It is very clear when one walks to the road how the burn-off stopped at the road and not a twig was burned on my block.

The burn-off area is now virtually devoid of ground fuel and *will not* burn again for some time. My block has a stack of fuel and will readily go up if given the chance.

Burn-offs work.

----

Brodie Allen:

>Outside of lightning, which represents only a tiny percentage of fires

Quote from the NY Times:

"According to the U.S. Forest Service's wildfire database, 44 percent of wildfires across the Western United States were triggered by lightning, but those were responsible for 71 percent of the area burned between 1992 and 2015, the most recent data available.Oct 23, 2020."

Perhaps do a little searching before making sweeping statements?

Phillipn · Guru

A good example for the need to burn off the bush can be seen on the road fom Maclean to Brooms Head. Their are cattle properties and sugar cane farms next to the national park, the paddocks and farms are full of kangaroos and emus, They live on grass and not undergrowth. The emus pull the young cane out.

When the national park was used for grazing and it was burnt every year, the fires only burnt on the ground, and the kangaroos and emus stayed in what now is national park.

The greenies and the do-gooders forget that when the aboriginals lived their they knew how to manage the bush, they burnt it. If the national parks used the same methods as the aboriginals their would be no big tree top fires.

The National Sparks and Wild Fires Service should to be proud of their stuffups and hang their heads in shame.

-- Edited by Phillipn on Monday 14th of December 2020 11:15:54 AM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

As dairy farmer over in Waikato 40 years ago . We where NEVER allowed to have long dead grass as its a fire hazard ! Even in NZ they have or had fire risk laws !! For 30 years a patrolled Lane Cove to Brooklyn national pk where elect transmission lines run . I can tell you at times when fires happen there plenty of fuel on the ground . Every year through NSW gov was my job to inspect tree clearance, vegetation . The last 10 years the tracks have become overgrown since privatisation . This is a cost no one wants to pay !! While the National Pks operate the way they are !! Imo fires will always be an issue !! Yes some are started by accident etc . But the National Pks would say that ! Doesnt mean fires cannot be prevented !! Btw my inspection signed off so NSW GOV had insurance, no chance of negligence!

Brodie Allen · Guru

Just think - if the whole of Fraser Island had been hazard reduced by burning off
all the undergrowth, the dopes that lit the fire could have gotten away with it.

Let's start the burn in all national Parks - NOT!

The perpetrators will get their education now at the hands of the Court.

Brodie

yobarr · Guru

Brodie Allen wrote:
Just think - if the whole of Fraser Island had been hazard reduced by burning off
all the undergrowth, the dopes that lit the fire could have gotten away with it.

Let's start the burn in all national Parks - NOT!

The perpetrators will get their education now at the hands of the Court.

Brodie

What ARE you on about? What part on "No Fuel means No Fire" do you not understand? If there was no undergrowth,the fire could not have spread. And the courts will likely say "Naughty boys...don't to it again".

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 22nd of December 2020 08:08:44 PM

Craig1 · Guru

The court nearly did. Fined $1220, at least he said sorry. Wonder what part of no fires to be lit did he not understand, nor the other 5 accompanying him.

erad · Guru

$1220 fine - What a joke. The offenders should be made to pay for the costs involved in dousing the fires and also reinstating the place to what it was before the fires. In a way, it was lucky it was in the National Park, because if private property was involved there would be huge costs involved in repairing damage to properties etc. $1220 won't even cover the costs of signage in the park, but how much does a helicopter cost to run? To say nothing about all the overtime for the National Park people - the volunteers get virtually nothing for putting their lives on the line.

rgren2 · Guru

Going fishing off there tomorrow, about three weeks ago, everything was greening up. I wonder why the NP Rangers havent been asked why they didnt put out the campfire they discovered.

Whenarewethere · Guru

They were waiting for rain.

rgren2 · Guru

Some controlled burns are being done now.
The areas that were burnt are recovering, there appears to be no problems where sea water was used to douse the fires.

Craig1 · Guru

Good to have some good news on here, thanks

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

Supposed to be heading there in September, if the bloody borders are open