Extension Cord

ConsumerMan · Senior Member

Extension Cord

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

More information required.
It is not legal to use 2 extension cords joined together anywhere, not just in a caravan park.
Cheers,
Peter

ConsumerMan · Senior Member

OK, here is more information. My caravan came new with a five metre permanently fixed power cord which pulls out and retracts from a hole in the side of the van. It has a male plug at the pull out end with the required 15amp earth pin. Where it goes inside the van I have no idea. Rarely will that five metre cord reach a caravan park power box, so quite often I have to attach a 15 amp extension cord. I had a GN tell me recently it was illegal. So, is my setup two extension cords joined together? The GN, helpful little soul, showed me his setup which is the more common female plug on the side of the caravan to which he attaches (wait for it) the same 15 amp extension cord. What is inside his caravan is still just a power cord before it goes to who knows where. The difference is his first power cord is all inside his van with a female plug at the end instead of my first cord hanging five metres outside my van with a male plug. So am I legal when using an extension cord?

SouthernComfort · Guru

It's an interesting point. Never seen that set-up before, but if the cord is a fixed part of the van's wiring I'd have thought it's not really an extension lead in the conventional sense. I don't know the legal position so don't act on this without checking further, but I wonder if you could leave your cord fully retracted with the plug right up to the side of the van, then attach a longer extension lead such as those most of us use. I can't see how that would be any different to the more common socket attached to the side of the van. Or, could you get a fixed socket put on the side of the van and have your cord shortened and wired into it? Worth checking with a sparky.

You might get the legal clarification here:

www.caravancouncil.com.au/

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Morning ConsumaMan,

I had a Avan camper when I first started my travels and Avan have a habit of that retractable lead SO I spoke to a sparky and he cut the cord to just 200mm that comes out. I then just attached a suitable length 15amp lead. I carried a 5mt, 10mt and 20mt leads and still do.

If I had have kept the camper I was going to have a 15amp socket fitted outside and eliminate the retractable one altogether.

Jaahn · Guru

SouthernComfort wrote:
It's an interesting point. Never seen that set-up before, but if the cord is a fixed part of the van's wiring I'd have thought it's not really an extension lead in the conventional sense. I don't know the legal position so don't act on this without checking further, but I wonder if you could leave your cord fully retracted with the plug right up to the side of the van, then attach a longer extension lead such as those most of us use.
-------

www.caravancouncil.com.au/

Hi Consumerman smile

I have not seen that set up either but my comment would be this. Do not use the pull out cord without it being fully extended. It will be at risk of overheating like any extension cord.

Possibly the subject is not worth worrying about. Just use it with a water proof connection cover and common sense. aww

Jaahn

-- Edited by Jaahn on Tuesday 6th of October 2020 11:41:07 AM

SouthernComfort · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
Morning ConsumaMan,

I had a Avan camper when I first started my travels and Avan have a habit of that retractable lead SO I spoke to a sparky and he cut the cord to just 200mm that comes out. I then just attached a suitable length 15amp lead. I carried a 5mt, 10mt and 20mt leads and still do.

If I had have kept the camper I was going to have a 15amp socket fitted outside and eliminate the retractable one altogether.

Exactly what I was saying Dougwe, good to know it worked in practice!

bgt · Guru

Google Ampfibian. They have most of the answers. https://ampfibian.com.au/

rgren2 · Guru

I would have thought that with Australian standards and having to provide an electrical certificate that the cable reel is legal. As to using an extension lead, of this I dont know the regulations, maybe contact the local electrical governing body.

diggerop · Senior Member

Just about every appliance (drills,saws,toasters ect) has a cord attached if you then use an extension cord I very much doubt that it becomes illegal.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

diggerop wrote:
Just about every appliance (drills,saws,toasters ect) has a cord attached if you then use an extension cord I very much doubt that it becomes illegal.

Except that those cords are just 2m long, not 5m and despite some people's belief, a caravan is not an "appliance", it is a "transportable structure" in the regulations and is covered by a different standard 3001.

I also don't know the legality of adding an extension cord to this. Check with someone who has a copy of the standards. Maybe Peter (Oldtrack123) will come along. He would know).

The current standard requires a caravan cord to be 15m long.

Cheers,

Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Tuesday 6th of October 2020 01:47:43 PM

Radar · Guru

A close friends purchased a new Avan caravan and after their first 2 day trip to find their feet with the new caravan, the first thing he did was call in a licensed electrician to shorten that 5 metre lead.

His reason was when you drop it in the Australian dirt, that dirt then ended up in that cubby hole where you store the excess lead.

It is interesting why Avan use only 5 metres when mostly the power poles somewhere between 7 and 10 metres away.

ConsumerMan · Senior Member

Radar wrote:

A close friends purchased a new Avan caravan and after their first 2 day trip to find their feet with the new caravan, the first thing he did was call in a licensed electrician to shorten that 5 metre lead.

His reason was when you drop it in the Australian dirt, that dirt then ended up in that cubby hole where you store the excess lead.

It is interesting why Avan use only 5 metres when mostly the power poles somewhere between 7 and 10 metres away.

Yes, very true. Retracting the five metre cord is my wifes job and she slips it through a wet cloth to remove the Australian dirt. I thought about having an electrician shorten the cord but very quickly decided old rags are far cheaper than an electrician.

Radar · Guru

ConsumerMan wrote:
Radar wrote:
A close friends purchased a new Avan caravan and after their first 2 day trip to find their feet with the new caravan, the first thing he did was call in a licensed electrician to shorten that 5 metre lead.
His reason was when you drop it in the Australian dirt, that dirt then ended up in that cubby hole where you store the excess lead.
It is interesting why Avan use only 5 metres when mostly the power poles somewhere between 7 and 10 metres away.

Yes, very true. Retracting the five metre cord is my wifes job and she slips it through a wet cloth to remove the Australian dirt. I thought about having an electrician shorten the cord but very quickly decided old rags are far cheaper than an electrician.

Yes old rags are cheaper.

Our friend is a plumber and the back neighbour is the sparkie, I would guess no money changes hands only the odd stubbie.

Ozzie_Traveller · Senior Member

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
More information required.
It is not legal to use 2 extension cords joined together anywhere, not just in a caravan park.
Cheers, Peter

G'day Peter

I have photos from a CP in Kununurra W.A. showing long-term / semi-permanents with 5x 20 metre cords snaking from tree to tree and across the grass before going into a power board and being shared across 3x users

Regards, Phil

Tony Bev · Guru

ConsumerMan wrote:
OK, here is more information. My caravan came new with a five metre permanently fixed power cord which pulls out and retracts from a hole in the side of the van. It has a male plug at the pull out end with the required 15amp earth pin. Where it goes inside the van I have no idea. Rarely will that five metre cord reach a caravan park power box, so quite often I have to attach a 15 amp extension cord. I had a GN tell me recently it was illegal. So, is my setup two extension cords joined together? The GN, helpful little soul, showed me his setup which is the more common female plug on the side of the caravan to which he attaches (wait for it) the same 15 amp extension cord. What is inside his caravan is still just a power cord before it goes to who knows where. The difference is his first power cord is all inside his van with a female plug at the end instead of my first cord hanging five metres outside my van with a male plug. So am I legal when using an extension cord?

Hi Consumer man

I am not an Electrician, so I ask the question, is the following line a misprint concerning the female plug

The GN, helpful little soul, showed me his setup which is the more common female plug on the side of the caravan

The motorhome in my Avatar has the normal male plug, for receiving the female end, of the 15 amp mains to caravan extension cord

If it had a female plug at the caravan, then it means that the extension cord from the mains box, (with 2 male ends), will have the potential of electrocuting someone

Also on my motorhome, on the opposite (passenger) side, is a female 10 amp GPO (General Purpose Outlet)

This GPO is to allow me to use 240 volt, outside the RV, such as using an electric kettle, etc

Aussie1 · Guru

Ozzie_Traveller wrote:
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
More information required.
It is not legal to use 2 extension cords joined together anywhere, not just in a caravan park.
Cheers, Peter
G'day Peter
I have photos from a CP in Kununurra W.A. showing long-term / semi-permanents with 5x 20 metre cords snaking from tree to tree and across the grass before going into a power board and being shared across 3x users
Regards, Phil

That's why it is called the "wild west"

dabbler · Guru

While CP might be different, it's not illegal to connect two extension cords in a Qld, Vic and NT workplace and not illegal in the home. It's certainly not recommended but not illegal. If a lead connected to a van is hard wired it makes the van no different to an appliance and length of cord makes no difference. The internals of a van are certainly covered under specific standards but they don't change the basic validity of using a lead rather than the more common fixed inlet. Having said that, I'm doubtful about using a partially coiled lead and think Dougwe's solution is perfect.

bgt · Guru

Word of caution. I was heavily involved in this debate some years back. Involved heavy lawyers. And lots of money!!! There are AS/NZS standards. (There are a number of variations on the AS/NZS standards. ie more than one number). The RV industry is subject to these standards. However variations can arise due to location. ie caravan parks are different to showgrounds. Be very careful about quoting numbers as they can vary subject to use/location. My advice is to stick to the rv standards. It's simple to find out those requirements. Ignore ALL campfire advice. Ignore regular electrician advice. Find an rv dealer/repairer and take their advice. I'm not giving an opinion because I'm not qualified. But I can tell you that there are conflicting opinions everywhere. Seek a qualified rv "expert".

Kebbin · Guru

bgt wrote:
Word of caution. I was heavily involved in this debate some years back. Involved heavy lawyers. And lots of money!!! There are AS/NZS standards. (There are a number of variations on the AS/NZS standards. ie more than one number). The RV industry is subject to these standards. However variations can arise due to location. ie caravan parks are different to showgrounds. Be very careful about quoting numbers as they can vary subject to use/location. My advice is to stick to the rv standards. It's simple to find out those requirements. Ignore ALL campfire advice. Ignore regular electrician advice. Find an rv dealer/repairer and take their advice. I'm not giving an opinion because I'm not qualified. But I can tell you that there are conflicting opinions everywhere. Seek a qualified rv "expert".

You have just given your advice/opinion to ignore an Electricians advice whose job is to work on 240v systems. And instead recommend a rv dealer repairer to do the work?

A damn stupid idea by Avan, one day it won't retract. I would have the correct inlet installed by a licenced electrician.

-- Edited by Kebbin on Tuesday 6th of October 2020 08:19:37 PM

bgt · Guru

No and yes. The average electrician is not up to speed on rv electrical systems. RV dealers/repairers should be up to speed on the requirements. My advice is not re the specific requirements but rather about who to seek advice from. Well meaning electricians can get it wrong. !!!

Kebbin · Guru

The OP is talking about 240v power to the van. Do you understand that a RV dealer or repairer would legally have to use a licenced Electrician for any 240v work?

bgt · Guru

Yes I understand that. My assumption is that the rv dealer/repairer would use an electrician who has the appropriate knowledge. We had a campervan built for us recently. The rv builder contracted in electricians and gas experts. Ask the "average" electrician if they are even aware that rvs are 15amp. I had my house fuse box blow last Christmas. The electrician who came to repair/replace our house power box had no idea that rvs were 15amp. He isn't the first one who I've come across. My main concern is the campfire "experts".

ConsumerMan · Senior Member

Tony Bev wrote:
ConsumerMan wrote:
OK, here is more information. My caravan came new with a five metre permanently fixed power cord which pulls out and retracts from a hole in the side of the van. It has a male plug at the pull out end with the required 15amp earth pin. Where it goes inside the van I have no idea. Rarely will that five metre cord reach a caravan park power box, so quite often I have to attach a 15 amp extension cord. I had a GN tell me recently it was illegal. So, is my setup two extension cords joined together? The GN, helpful little soul, showed me his setup which is the more common female plug on the side of the caravan to which he attaches (wait for it) the same 15 amp extension cord. What is inside his caravan is still just a power cord before it goes to who knows where. The difference is his first power cord is all inside his van with a female plug at the end instead of my first cord hanging five metres outside my van with a male plug. So am I legal when using an extension cord?
Hi Consumer man
I am not an Electrician, so I ask the question, is the following line a misprint concerning the female plug
The GN, helpful little soul, showed me his setup which is the more common female plug on the side of the caravan
The motorhome in my Avatar has the normal male plug, for receiving the female end, of the 15 amp mains to caravan extension cord
If it had a female plug at the caravan, then it means that the extension cord from the mains box, (with 2 male ends), will have the potential of electrocuting someone
Also on my motorhome, on the opposite (passenger) side, is a female 10 amp GPO (General Purpose Outlet)
This GPO is to allow me to use 240 volt, outside the RV, such as using an electric kettle, etc

Yes, you are correct, my mistake

CM

ConsumerMan · Senior Member

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I always pull the cord out to its full length. The coiled cord risk I am aware of, but thank you. Interesting to sometimes watch the caravanners that roll their cords on a hose reel but only pull out enough to reach the power box, often with several metres still wound tightly on the hose reel. On the other matter I think I will just continue with my existing setup using a waterproof connection housing. The more I think about it I reckon it is no different to using a 240V appliance in my backyard. I attach an extension cord to the cord that hangs out the back of the appliance, drill or hedge trimmer or electric mower or whatever, and the other end of that cord that hangs out the back goes somewhere into the appliance. Thanks again.

Mamil · Senior Member

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
diggerop wrote:
Just about every appliance (drills,saws,toasters ect) has a cord attached if you then use an extension cord I very much doubt that it becomes illegal.
Except that those cords are just 2m long, not 5m and despite some people's belief, a caravan is not an "appliance", it is a "transportable structure" in the regulations and is covered by a different standard 3001.
I also don't know the legality of adding an extension cord to this. Check with someone who has a copy of the standards. Maybe Peter (Oldtrack123) will come along. He would know).
The current standard requires a caravan cord to be 15m long.
Cheers,
Peter

-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Tuesday 6th of October 2020 01:47:43 PM

Peter is correct, you cannot treat a caravan as an "appliance", it has a specific set of regulations applicable to it, namely AS/NZS 3001 Electrical installations - Transportable structures and vehicles including their site supplies.

I cannot post large parts of the standard here because of copyright issues, but here's some pertinent excerpts that answer some of the questions in this thread...

Clause 3.2 "Connection to site supply" allows allows for either a detachable lead connected to a receptacle on the van such as the common 15A male plug, or a permanent connection to the van which would cover the retractable cord discussed in this thread. However, both count as a "supply lead" as far as the standard is concerned and must comply with the following requirements...

Clause 5.1.1 General: A supply lead used to connect the site supply to transportable structures according to Section 3 or the electrical equipment in tents or non-rigid annexes according to Section 4, shall be in one length.

Clause 5.1.3 Length: Any supply lead to be used in caravan parks should be not less than 10m long. In other applications no minimum length is specified. In all cases the length should not exceed the relevant figure specified in Table 5.1 for the applicable cross-sectional area.

Clause 5.1.4 Coiled leads: Where a reel, drum, storage box or similar is provided for the purpose of coiling the supply lead, a conspicuous notice shall be fixed on or near the device to warn that the supply lead must not be connected to the supply while it is coiled.

Table 5.1.jpg

-- Edited by Mamil on Tuesday 6th of October 2020 09:51:13 PM

Anslow · Newbie

An example of what happens when a extension cord is not fully extended.

Teo · Senior Member

My Avan is 12 years old and sure, the power lead retractor no longer works, I can easily feed the lead by hand back into the compartment where it belongs. Easy to wipe with a rag as it goes in. Also the lead on the old van is a bit over 10 metres long.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Keep things out of water . The general plug is NOT an approval water proof join, fitting . The length ? Due to wire size, voltage drop etc . Before this becomes another sh it fight !!

bgt · Guru

Re water and connections. Buried within the regulation is something about any connection should be at least xx above the ground. (the xx is because I've forgotten the exact height above ground). The reason being that a heavy downpour and/or flash flood may swamp the connection.