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Post Info TOPIC: It seems photographs of Ayres Rock / Uluru are now prohibited
dorian


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RE: It seems photographs of Ayres Rock / Uluru are now prohibited
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Cuppa wrote:

Whether correct or not - it is interesting but not relevant.

. . .

There is nothing to compel them to give us a reason whether truthful or otherwise.

It is extremely relevant because it appears to suggest, as you have, that lying is OK if it gets you the result that you want. Moreover, if others are prepared to do likewise, then it calls all such claims into question. Could I now be forgiven for wondering whether claims involving sacred sites are all that they are made out to be?

In fact there are those people who believe that the motivation behind climbing prohibitions comes from "Parks" themselves, rather than from the aboriginal Elders. I had wondered whether these were just conspiracy theorists having a spray in Murdoch's rags and elsewhere, but now I'm not so sure.

Here is an interview (in Australian Geographic) with a climbing proponent who tells us that there were at least three other mountain sites where climbing was banned, ostensibly due to "spiritual" reasons. 

https://righttoclimb.blogspot.com/2019/08/the-end-of-climb.html

However, he claims that Parks have an alternative agenda involving safety, and he further claims that the bans were imposed to avert the projected costs of rescues, staff training and public liability. He cites his inability to gain personal access to the land owners, being thwarted by Parks themselves. This obstructive experience is supported by Erwin Chandla in his news piece. Something smells bad.



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dabbler


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The bad small is the total unwillingness to acknowledge Australian law. Motives will always be questioned by people who disagree with actions. If you are going to question one person's motives, don't stop there.

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dorian


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If there are those who wish to unreasonably deny us access to nature's wonders, then we are morally obligated to speak out, especially when such reasons are founded on lies or questionable information. For me, this thread has been very illuminating. Had we not questioned the reasons for the photography ban, I would not have been prompted to dig for the truth, and this truth turned out to be surprisingly inconvenient.

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dabbler


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What photography ban ? Don't be selective in your reading.

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hufnpuf


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Who is being "denied access to nature's wonders"? Everyone can go to look at Uluru, you can't just climb all over it any more. As for being unreasonable, you can't climb all over many tourist sites/places open for public viewing.

There is no "photography ban". All that happened was that google street view took down photos of the climb that nobody's allowed to do any more. Nobody's stopping anyone from taking photos of the area. From the ground.

As for "lies", the opinion of ONE person reported by another (ie hearsay) 40 years ago is meaningless. He wasn't the only elder and his opinion (IF accurately reported) may not have been representative.

Lots of things that weren't considered an issue 40 years ago are now because of increased population/access and sense of entitlement of people nowadays. Once upon a time, people didn't think they had the right to stomp all over anything they liked. Public liability risk is also now more prevalent. Once upon a time, if you fell over, you didn't start looking for somebody to get money for it. Of course the parks departments will have concerns over public liability. That doesn't affect the legitimacy of the owners' decisions. The owners may have concerns over getting sued as well. Who says that their decision to prohibit climbing has to be solely due to "spiritual" reasons?

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dorian


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Lots of people visit the Sydney Harbour Bridge just for the bridge climb. Standing underneath it and marvelling at this engineering wonder wouldn't be the same, especially if one couldn't photograph it.

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hufnpuf


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You never used to be able to climb the bridge, the bridge climbs have started relatively recently.  I'm perfectly capable of of marveling at the bridge or other sites without leaving the ground.  I'm just a human, I'm not Spiderman.  Suggesting that you need to climb something to appreciate it is just nonsense.  Do you climb houses in your neighbourhood?  Go to a home open and insist that you can't appreciate the place unless you can go on the roof? Climbing is the exception, it's not the rule.  Is the Opera House an hideous waste of time because you can't climb it?  It's just not the same having to look at it from a ferry, is it? 

Nobody's stopping anyone from photographing Uluru or the Sydney Harbour Bridge.  



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dabbler


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I'd like to visit Pine Gap and take some snapshots but I'm not allowed to go near it. I don't subscribe to the American belief that I can't even drive to the front gate for reasons of US national interests so their beliefs can be ignored. After all, I'm one if their landlords.

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dorian


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I approach this issue with compassion tempered with reason. There is a good reason that we are prohibited from photographing Pine Gap (although I would like to).

I have climbed mountains in Europe on several occasions, following the trail and guide ropes laid out by the local authorities. There is a huge difference between climbing and observing from afar. I take issue with the suggestion that others should determine whether I should be satisfied with the latter, especially when their reasons are dubious. In fact when I reread this thread, I feel that I've been manipulated. One day Paddy Uluru is reported as saying that climbing the rock is of no significance, but by the time he fronts the land rights tribunal he is professing a spiritual connection with the "place". Moreover, I thought I was being respectful by referring to the rock as "Uluru", bit it now appears that it would less disrespectful to call it Ayers Rock.

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Webmaster


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Hi all,
Many thanks for your input on this, but I think I will close it now.



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