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Post Info TOPIC: Generators


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RE: Generators


My purchased generator brought off Ebay arrived yesterday, I am unsure whether to mount it on the caravan "A" frame, or the rear bumper.

20200918_094931-1.jpg



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iana wrote:

My purchased generator brought off Ebay arrived yesterday, I am unsure whether to mount it on the caravan "A" frame, or the rear bumper.

20200918_094931-1.jpg


 A frame to much tow ball weight rear bar tail wagging the dog in the middle of van exceed gvm  don't no



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We own a little Honda Eu10i generator, bought 12 years ago to keep both our starter batteries & house batteries charged when our alternator died & took several months to get a replacement. Since the end of that trip it has never left home again, but has proven useful in the garden now & then.

Although reputed to be the quietest on the market, I suspect that those who say they cannot hear them must be hearing impaired. I feel sorry for them because not only do they not hear the the gennie, they also won't hear the reason we dislike using a gennie & choose to no longer carry it with us. You see what attracts us to the bush where we mainly choose to be, is that we love nature. Listening to & watching the wildlife. Waking to the dawn chorus of birds in any location is wonderful. Waking to the drone of someone else's gennie blocking out 'nature' is quite the opposite. They are not 'excessively' loud, but when one , our own included, has been running, & gets shut off, there is a sigh of relief & a sense of 'Thank goodness for that' every time.

The reality is that a Solar battery system is both silent, free to run once installed, and has purchase costs not dissimilar to the purchase cost of a generator these days. With use it becomes cheaper without the ongoing cost of fuel

Roof space allowing, there is no need to have to constantly move panels around throughout the day. With Dc to Dc charging as part of the mix it is easy to be set up for a week or two at a time , & once set up for that sort of period you are set up for indefinite self sufficiency. We have our panels on top of our tow vehicle & the 'house batteries' inside the tow vehicle. When camped we use an 'umbilical cord' to connect to our camper, allowing us to camp in the shade with the vehicle & panels out in the sun. Admittedly we are set up for full time travel,& have our fridge & freezer in the tow vehicle too. During the past 3 years full time 'on the road' we have never had need to plug into any other power supply & certainly have never wished we had the gennie with us.

Done properly it's a lovely way to travel & camp, affording maximum flexibility. I often wonder if it is the wish to avoid the 'learning curve' which is required when approaching solar for the first time (combined with the many self professed 'experts' who thrust poor advice onto the unwary) which pushes folk down the 'easier' path of just buying a gennie & plugging into it. I make no claim of expertise, but I am very happy with the 100% self sufficient solar battery systems I built with knowledge & aid from others on two different RV's now.



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iana wrote:

My purchased generator brought off Ebay arrived yesterday, I am unsure whether to mount it on the caravan "A" frame, or the rear bumper.

20200918_094931-1.jpg


 

 And don't forget to run it after everyone is sound asleep so you don't annoy anybody. biggrinbiggrinbiggrin

 



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"4x250W solar panels, Epever 80A charger and 3x135Ah Voltax Prismatic LiFePO4 Batteries".



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iana wrote:

My purchased generator brought off Ebay arrived yesterday, I am unsure whether to mount it on the caravan "A" frame, or the rear bumper.

20200918_094931-1.jpg


 Which reminds me, why aren't we all using silent, zero emissions, fuel cell generators? They seem to be available at industrial scale, but where are the portable personal units we were promised a few years ago? 



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Mamil wrote:

 Which reminds me, why aren't we all using silent, zero emissions, fuel cell generators? They seem to be available at industrial scale, but where are the portable personal units we were promised a few years ago? 


 We owned this second hand Efoy for a couple of years 2014/5 while touring Europe by motorhome.

Fantastic jigger. Wanted to bring it home, but that was difficult. Expensive new.

Uses methanol as the source of hydrogen. Makes about the same noise as a compressor fridge. Waste products are a little CO2 and a little pure water. It was installed inside the motorhome under a seat.

Output is a constant 75W (24/7, if required) at battery charging volts.

P1030087E.jpg

Cheers,

Peter



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OKA196, 4x4 'C' Class, DIY, self contained motorhome. 960W of solar, 400Ah of AGMs, 310L water, 280L fuel. https://www.oka4wd.com/forum/members-vehicles-public/569-oka196-xt-motorhome
 

 



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Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Mamil wrote:

 Which reminds me, why aren't we all using silent, zero emissions, fuel cell generators? They seem to be available at industrial scale, but where are the portable personal units we were promised a few years ago? 


 We owned this second hand Efoy for a couple of years 2014/5 while touring Europe by motorhome.

Fantastic jigger. Wanted to bring it home, but that was difficult. Expensive new.

Uses methanol as the source of hydrogen. Makes about the same noise as a compressor fridge. Waste products are a little CO2 and a little pure water. It was installed inside the motorhome under a seat.

Output is a constant 75W (24/7, if required) at battery charging volts.

P1030087E.jpg

Cheers,

Peter


Thank you Peter, once you gave me the brand name it wasn't too difficult to find an Australian supplier https://www.powerbox.com.au/battery-chargers/efoy-pro-fuel

Sounds very interesting - why aren't we all using these to back up our solar systems? Seems like the combination would make the ICE generator obsolete!

EFOY Pro Fuel cell generators   are smart energy producers that can be used to continuously and fully automatically recharge batteries. To do this, the fuel cell is connected directly to the battery that supplies consumers and monitors its charge level. The fuel cell recharges the battery fully automatically and then switches to standby - without any need for maintenance or intervention on the behalf of the user, and are perfectly suited for installation inside a vehicle.



-- Edited by Mamil on Monday 28th of September 2020 01:02:01 AM

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Mamil wrote:
why aren't we all using these to back up our solar systems?

 

I suspect it's because of the price. I always worry when a website doesn't give a price but tells you to contact them for a quote.



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Cuppa wrote:

We own a little Honda Eu10i generator, bought 12 years ago to keep both our starter batteries & house batteries charged when our alternator died & took several months to get a replacement. Since the end of that trip it has never left home again, but has proven useful in the garden now & then.

Although reputed to be the quietest on the market, I suspect that those who say they cannot hear them must be hearing impaired. I feel sorry for them because not only do they not hear the the gennie, they also won't hear the reason we dislike using a gennie & choose to no longer carry it with us. You see what attracts us to the bush where we mainly choose to be, is that we love nature. Listening to & watching the wildlife. Waking to the dawn chorus of birds in any location is wonderful. Waking to the drone of someone else's gennie blocking out 'nature' is quite the opposite. They are not 'excessively' loud, but when one , our own included, has been running, & gets shut off, there is a sigh of relief & a sense of 'Thank goodness for that' every time.

The reality is that a Solar battery system is both silent, free to run once installed, and has purchase costs not dissimilar to the purchase cost of a generator these days. With use it becomes cheaper without the ongoing cost of fuel

Roof space allowing, there is no need to have to constantly move panels around throughout the day. With Dc to Dc charging as part of the mix it is easy to be set up for a week or two at a time , & once set up for that sort of period you are set up for indefinite self sufficiency. We have our panels on top of our tow vehicle & the 'house batteries' inside the tow vehicle. When camped we use an 'umbilical cord' to connect to our camper, allowing us to camp in the shade with the vehicle & panels out in the sun. Admittedly we are set up for full time travel,& have our fridge & freezer in the tow vehicle too. During the past 3 years full time 'on the road' we have never had need to plug into any other power supply & certainly have never wished we had the gennie with us.

Done properly it's a lovely way to travel & camp, affording maximum flexibility. I often wonder if it is the wish to avoid the 'learning curve' which is required when approaching solar for the first time (combined with the many self professed 'experts' who thrust poor advice onto the unwary) which pushes folk down the 'easier' path of just buying a gennie & plugging into it. I make no claim of expertise, but I am very happy with the 100% self sufficient solar battery systems I built with knowledge & aid from others on two different RV's now.


 We are very much on your path. Generator on the shelf along side the battery charger and any electrical appliances we were using.

Great comment.

Stay safe and travel well



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Mamil wrote:


Thank you Peter, once you gave me the brand name it wasn't too difficult to find an Australian supplier https://www.powerbox.com.au/battery-chargers/efoy-pro-fuel

Sounds very interesting - why aren't we all using these to back up our solar systems? Seems like the combination would make the ICE generator obsolete!

EFOY Pro Fuel cell generators   are smart energy producers that can be used to continuously and fully automatically recharge batteries. To do this, the fuel cell is connected directly to the battery that supplies consumers and monitors its charge level. The fuel cell recharges the battery fully automatically and then switches to standby - without any need for maintenance or intervention on the behalf of the user, and are perfectly suited for installation inside a vehicle.

 


 They are still a niche market and that makes them expensive. 

We used this one in Europe for some weeks when our batteries failed, but frankly, solar (with a direct alternator charge as emergency back up) is totally adequate and cheaper except perhaps in a Euro winter.

For interest, the one we bought second hand was purchased new in Australia by friends and went to Europe in their vehicle and we bought it in Europe from them because they had lots of solar and decided that they did not need it. We subsequently sold it in Europe.

Cheers,

Peter



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OKA196, 4x4 'C' Class, DIY, self contained motorhome. 960W of solar, 400Ah of AGMs, 310L water, 280L fuel. https://www.oka4wd.com/forum/members-vehicles-public/569-oka196-xt-motorhome
 

 



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Thanks Mike and Peter, so it seems price is the main barrier to adoption of this technology, not any fundamental technical flaw. In that case I'm sure we'll see more of them in the future as price always falls as production volume rises. As an aside, when searching the internet for information on them I came across this article, not an ethanol fuel cell admittedly, but a related technology. Seems the day of the fuel cell may be coming soon after all...

"An Australian tech startup has revealed ambitious plans to not only restart local vehicle production on local soil, but its diverse line-up of vehicles will be exclusively powered by hydrogen fuel cells, as well as battery and supercapacitor power storage."

www.whichcar.com.au/car-news/h2x-launches-in-australia

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Hi smile

If you search above you will find this thread from the past about Peters EOFY unit and some discussion too.

https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t60988228/efoy-methonal-fuel-cells/

I note Peter did offer his for sale but no-one here bought it ??

The cost does not appear to have gone down since that time or the cost of the methanol fuel. 

Jaahn 



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Jaahn wrote:

Hi smile

If you search above you will find this thread from the past about Peters EOFY unit and some discussion too.

https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t60988228/efoy-methonal-fuel-cells/

I note Peter did offer his for sale but no-one here bought it ??

The cost does not appear to have gone down since that time or the cost of the methanol fuel. 

Jaahn 


 Thanks Jaahn, interesting reading. If Peter's was still for sale I might just give it a go at that price, although pick-up in Germany might be a problem!



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Mamil wrote:
Jaahn wrote:

Hi smile If you search above you will find this thread from the past about Peters EOFY unit and some discussion too.

https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t60988228/efoy-methonal-fuel-cells/

I note Peter did offer his for sale but no-one here bought it ?? The cost does not appear to have gone down since that time or the cost of the methanol fuel. Jaahn 


 Thanks Jaahn, interesting reading. If Peter's was still for sale I might just give it a go at that price, although pick-up in Germany might be a problem!


 Hi Mamil smile

My pleasure ! As I was interested then and now too, I searched for current real prices to get some idea of the costs. I did find a caravan place in the UK that had prices on their shop listings.    https://www.campervanstuff.com/shop_stuff/index.php   These are in UK pounds and in the UK.

There are three current models; Efoy Comfort 80, 140, 210 fuel cells for automatic 12V LA battery charging; 

80 , 40W @ 3.3A, gives 80 Ahr/day. cost 2342 pounds.

140, 72W @ 6.0A, gives 140Ahr/day. cost 3582 pounds.

210, 105W @ 8.8A, gives 210Ahr/day, cost 4914 pounds. 

Fuel EFOL cannisters of methanol, 5 ltr gives 15 days use, cost 39 pounds,  10ltr gives 30 days use, cost 53 pounds. Rate of fuel use is 1.09ltr/100Ahr. for all models. 

Cheers jaahn

 



-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 28th of September 2020 07:54:50 PM

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Date:

Jaahn wrote:
Mamil wrote:
Jaahn wrote:

Hi smile If you search above you will find this thread from the past about Peters EOFY unit and some discussion too.

https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t60988228/efoy-methonal-fuel-cells/

I note Peter did offer his for sale but no-one here bought it ?? The cost does not appear to have gone down since that time or the cost of the methanol fuel. Jaahn 


 Thanks Jaahn, interesting reading. If Peter's was still for sale I might just give it a go at that price, although pick-up in Germany might be a problem!


 Hi Mamil smile

My pleasure ! As I was interested then and now too, I searched for current real prices to get some idea of the costs. I did find a caravan place in the UK that had prices on their shop listings.    https://www.campervanstuff.com/shop_stuff/index.php   These are in UK pounds and in the UK.

There are three current models; Efoy Comfort 80, 140, 210 fuel cells for automatic 12V LA battery charging; 

80 , 40W @ 3.3A, gives 80 Ahr/day. cost 2342 pounds.

140, 72W @ 6.0A, gives 140Ahr/day. cost 3582 pounds.

210, 105W @ 8.8A, gives 210Ahr/day, cost 4914 pounds. 

Fuel EFOL cannisters of methanol, 5 ltr gives 15 days use, cost 39 pounds,  10ltr gives 30 days use, cost 53 pounds. Rate of fuel use is 1.09ltr/100Ahr. for all models. 

Cheers jaahn

 



-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 28th of September 2020 07:54:50 PM


 Thanks again, but at those prices I might just chuck a solar panel or three on. I guess the economics are different in sunny Australia compared to dismal Europe biggrin



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Whenarewethere wrote:

This was an interesting experiment, 3mm acoustic foam on the ridges & 6mm in the valleys. I was surprised how much of the "edge" of outside noise it knocked off. Couldn't do thicker on the ridges.

normal__MG_2536 (1).jpg




Interesting and it still rolled up alright I take it.

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Guru

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Mamil wrote:


 Thanks again, but at those prices I might just chuck a solar panel or three on. I guess the economics are different in sunny Australia compared to dismal Europe biggrin


 As an aside, we found that solar was totally practical and sufficient in summer in "dismal Europe".

This was even the case north of the Arctic Circle which was a surprise. While the sun is much lower on the horizon, it also shines for much longer and north of the Arctic Circle, it never sets so while the charge rate can be lower, it never stops. All our panels were fixed on the roof. A portable would increase collection considerably.

Cheers,

Peter



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OKA196, 4x4 'C' Class, DIY, self contained motorhome. 960W of solar, 400Ah of AGMs, 310L water, 280L fuel. https://www.oka4wd.com/forum/members-vehicles-public/569-oka196-xt-motorhome
 

 



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Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Mamil wrote:


 Thanks again, but at those prices I might just chuck a solar panel or three on. I guess the economics are different in sunny Australia compared to dismal Europe biggrin


 As an aside, we found that solar was totally practical and sufficient in summer in "dismal Europe".

This was even the case north of the Arctic Circle which was a surprise. While the sun is much lower on the horizon, it also shines for much longer and north of the Arctic Circle, it never sets so while the charge rate can be lower, it never stops. All our panels were fixed on the roof. A portable would increase collection considerably.

Cheers,

Peter


Sorry, hope I didn't offend with my comment, and in fact I'm a "dismal European" myself. and I do miss the long summer evenings of northern latitudes. However I don't miss the flipside in the winter which for me consisted of commuting to work in the dark, spending all day in an office without windows, and commuting home again in the dark - I'd only see daylight at the weekends! SAD or Seasonally Affected Disorder was a recognised condition caused by lack of exposure to daylight during the winter months, and if diagnosed you could get sunlamp treatment on the NHS smile

 



-- Edited by Mamil on Tuesday 29th of September 2020 09:07:47 PM

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Absolutely no offence from me.smile

Long summer days are great, but having worked in Europe during winter for a while, I can't imagine living there in winter and keeping the batteries charged would need a whole different approach from here, that is for sure.

Cheers,

Peter



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OKA196, 4x4 'C' Class, DIY, self contained motorhome. 960W of solar, 400Ah of AGMs, 310L water, 280L fuel. https://www.oka4wd.com/forum/members-vehicles-public/569-oka196-xt-motorhome
 

 



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Yep dark is dark for months . Not to mention just a little c- cold !

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