Thank goodness for that. Sorry it was ever opened Last month. Everyone should just stay home or if nomads stay where u r.

I think that map is a twist on this one

Tony Bev wrote:

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TerryS wrote:

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Please dont paint all Victorians with the same brush. The majority of us have done the right thing throughout this crisis, unfortunately we have been let down by a minority and are now paying the price. I ask that the rest of the country dont forget that we are all Australians and have always stuck together through good and bad times. Sadly as most of us have never experienced anything like this in our lives the we are all Australians seems to have faded and many are pushing Victoria away. We are all in this together.

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 I do not believe that anyone is bashing any particular State, Terry

My home base is in WA, and we realise that it is the minorities, from all States, who are doing the wrong thing, and unknowingly spreading the Coronavirus

Because some people are doing the wrong thing, then (in my opinion), all borders should be closed, and stay closed until the Coronavirus is actually eliminated

We only have to look at New Zealand, WA, SA, NT, TAS, who have hard borders, and hopefully contained the Coronavirus

I have friends in rural Victoria, and from my point of view, it will never be us against them, we shall come through this as a country

If the Palmer brigade have their way, and WA is forced to open its borders, it could turn out, that in a few short months, I could be in your current position

 

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Plain Truth's map would disagree with you Tony. And that's not the only example which has clearly prompted Terry to express his view.

Certainly we've had our share of idiots (the minority) who have played a part in spreading the thing. Just like there have been people from other states visiting Victoria and sneaking back home undetected. However the key factor responsible for leaving the gate open in Vic in the first place, so to speak, was the state govt's bungling of the quarantine hotels. We are the only state that hired unemployed, untrained anybody's who were expected to supply their own PPE and who went on to prove themselves about as effective as a bunch of chocolate teapots. The 'appointed' contractor's labour hire strategy was to advertise on Gumtree for bodies to fill the roles. It has been made clear several times that all the current infections in Vic ultimately trace back to the escapees from those hotels. Even if the govt had made testing mandatory before they were released it would have made some difference. Other states used guards from the police or ADF to guard their hotels and invoked testing during their lockdown, but Dan always knows best i.e. do the opposite, then create a smoke screen and blame the public for not complying. It's his MO all over.

Closing the borders now does make sense, you don't want what we're going through. But it is not the fault of the 99.99% of Victorians who have done and continue to do the right thing despite the almost unliveable stage 4 restrictions. 

SouthernComfort wrote:

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Tony Bev wrote:

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TerryS wrote:

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Please dont paint all Victorians with the same brush. The majority of us have done the right thing throughout this crisis, unfortunately we have been let down by a minority and are now paying the price. I ask that the rest of the country dont forget that we are all Australians and have always stuck together through good and bad times. Sadly as most of us have never experienced anything like this in our lives the we are all Australians seems to have faded and many are pushing Victoria away. We are all in this together.

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 I do not believe that anyone is bashing any particular State, Terry

My home base is in WA, and we realise that it is the minorities, from all States, who are doing the wrong thing, and unknowingly spreading the Coronavirus

Because some people are doing the wrong thing, then (in my opinion), all borders should be closed, and stay closed until the Coronavirus is actually eliminated

We only have to look at New Zealand, WA, SA, NT, TAS, who have hard borders, and hopefully contained the Coronavirus

I have friends in rural Victoria, and from my point of view, it will never be us against them, we shall come through this as a country

If the Palmer brigade have their way, and WA is forced to open its borders, it could turn out, that in a few short months, I could be in your current position

 

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Plain Truth's map would disagree with you Tony. And that's not the only example which has clearly prompted Terry to express his view.

Certainly we've had our share of idiots (the minority) who have played a part in spreading the thing. Just like there have been people from other states visiting Victoria and sneaking back home undetected. However the key factor responsible for leaving the gate open in Vic in the first place, so to speak, was the state govt's bungling of the quarantine hotels. We are the only state that hired unemployed, untrained anybody's who were expected to supply their own PPE and who went on to prove themselves about as effective as a bunch of chocolate teapots. The 'appointed' contractor's labour hire strategy was to advertise on Gumtree for bodies to fill the roles. It has been made clear several times that all the current infections in Vic ultimately trace back to the escapees from those hotels. Even if the govt had made testing mandatory before they were released it would have made some difference. Other states used guards from the police or ADF to guard their hotels and invoked testing during their lockdown, but Dan always knows best i.e. do the opposite, then create a smoke screen and blame the public for not complying. It's his MO all over.

Closing the borders now does make sense, you don't want what we're going through. But it is not the fault of the 99.99% of Victorians who have done and continue to do the right thing despite the almost unliveable stage 4 restrictions. 

 

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 I would blame the Contractor not the Govt (as was the case with the Pink Bats issue).

Duplicate deleted

I posted this photo under another topic in the I digress section to highlight the risk of letting crowds into unseated areas of sporting fixtures but I think it probably fits here as well. Its a photo of Qlders showing us how to do the right thing in terms of social distancing - if nothing comes of this then it will probably be good luck rather than good management. States are bound to make mistakes in handling this pandemic, unfortunately Victoria is an example of what can happen "when all the ducks line up"....Keeping the borders closed is probably the most effective way of reducing the risk of the spread but that doesn't mean another Victoria can't happen elsewhere if social distancing rules are ignored. Not just trying to pick on Qld there have been similar scenes in NSW in unseated areas and in some grounds they are probably too close together in the seated areas..

I just read an article about a Qlder returning home from a designated Melbourne hotspot, he had filled out the paperwork with all the correct info. and was expecting to spend the compulsory 14 days in isolation. When he got to the border checkpoint they just waved him through without even looking at his paperwork. He was so worried about potentially spreading the virus  he contacted authorities from his car and told them what had happened, they immediatley directed him to a quarantine hotel. Mistakes can happen and if this is an example of border control they probably already have.

BB

 I was just thinking how did he get across the NSW/Vic border and be allowed to drive across the state if he came from a Melbourne hotspot - aren't people supposed to do 14 days in isolation there as well ?

-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Thursday 6th of August 2020 08:30:24 AM

SouthernComfort wrote:

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Cupie, the point is this: logically you deploy your most effective resources to execute a campaign as critical as guarding the quarantined people in the hotels. It's not a job for amateurs. Victoria has a police force at its disposal which was able to be supplemented by ADF personnel as offered by the PM. To deliberately ignore the best interests of Victorians and ultimately Australians everywhere by rejecting that logic, and instead choosing to take the private contractor option was totally absurd. The contractor proved to be a disaster (much like the condition this entire state now finds itself in) but the govt is wholly responsible for its irresponsible decision. A decision maker doesn't blame his lieutenants, he has to be accountable for the decisions he makes, that's where the buck stops, you don't push it down the line and expect the blame to rest entirely with the incompetent outfit you have appointed.

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 Tony, while I appreciate you view may I offer these brief comments ..

It could be argued that this is really about the best & appropriate use of limited available, competent & legal resources in a fast developing novel situation.

Legal difficulties exist in almost every use of Defence Forces for non-defence purposes. Strict proscribed steps must be taken by both arms of Govt & the Judiciary to implement this option in a way that falls within the purvey of the DF AMR&O & indeed the Constitution.   At the time of the establishment of the imposed quarantine, this option was not on the table & perhaps is still not.#(see footnote)

There was however an existing strong precedence in the use of 'Private Contractors' to provide a similar service, in the form of the well established practice by both levels of Govt.     The Fed Govt. uses Private Contractors to deliver similar security services for both on & off shore Detention Centres.  At the same time State Govts. use Private Contractors to deliver Security & other services for State Prisons.

So clearly there was a well established precedence for Govts. to use Private contractors for this purpose.

Diversion of limited Police resources to a non core function would have depleted available resources that may well have had a critical role in a quickly developing civil situation.   ( eg. Just look at the policing of the lock down restrictions)

In balance, the decision to choose the Private Contractor option may well have been a logical & correct one.

Perhaps criticism could be better directed at the actions of the selected Contractor or indeed at the competence of your Public Service who are charged with the responsibility of implementing decisions of the Executive Govt.   Given the proliferation of the use of Contractors by all forms of Govt. these days, surely Contractor management and supervision is a core Process/responsibility of today's Public Service.

# note .. The subsequent use of DF in 'door knocking', I understand involves them being accompanied by officers who have the legal authority to conduct the operation.  Perhaps this circumvents their use in non-defence activities.

Craig1 wrote:

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And just to prove how wonderful some of Victoria's Public Servants are, they just asked for and got and accepted a good Pay Rise, while heaps are thrown out of work.

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Indeed, among other pertinent facts:

* Vic politicians and public servants just granted a 2% pay increase 

* An estimated 250,000 Victorians in the private sector have lost their jobs as a result of shut down

* 10's of thousands of SME's expected to fold permanently due to stage 4

* No job losses in the public sector

* 22% increase in calls to Lifeline, as of yesterday according to the LL CEO.

Meanwhile decisions made by govt and implemented by the PS are currently under scrutiny and the biggest scrutineers are the Vic public. The hotels debacle in particular is the subject of a formal inquiry. The findings will be interesting.

The job of govt is to provide good governance and be accountable to the people for their performance.

jebs wrote:

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Well if Clive Palmer wins his case in the high court to get the W.A. borders open then all the borders will be open

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 This is a worry, jebs

Already I am seeing in the Queensland media, concerning the new Queensland border closure

Copy and paste below

Tourism operators said shutting the border to nearly 8 million residents from New South Wales and the ACT could potentially decimate their struggling businesses, with a mass of cancellations.

Another copy and paste, from the same article

Meanwhile, in regional Queensland, some locals welcomed the border decision, saying it was the "greatest news in weeks" because it would save lives.

Link to story below, within a live news article

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-06/coronavirus-queensland-border-closure-business-local-by-surprise/12525210

I am most certainly not a friend of anyone, who puts economy before health