This is my view on Generators.

Gundog · Guru

RE: This is my view on Generators.

KJB · Guru

For those folks here who are actually interested in Gensets - I have a Honda 2Kva in our Slide on Camper and a remote electric start Honda 3 Kva in our Fifth Wheeler. Both are silenced ,Inverter type , "built in" ,plugged in permanently and run "in situ" .

Under identical load (which generally around 1200 watts) the 2Kva unit is less quiet than the 3Kva unit (bigger unit ticks over at a fast idle ) The Silenced /Inverter style Honda has a pretty good reputation as far as being quiet and we find neither is intrusive particularly as we run them for only a short period at a time (20 - 30 mins. on average)

Both have been reliable and have done good service. Both were bought "second hand " on eBay/Gumtree . Both can be and are used for other purposes when home.

They have been a cheap, easy power source considering that they just plugged into existing systems of the Slide- on and the Fifth Wheeler. All lighting is 12 volt LED.

Majority of our caravanning/camping has been "bush camps"(and have a fire for cooking, if possible) or roadside stops (prefer where there are no other campers)

We have enjoyed a life time of caravanning and camping and continue to do so but it is not the focal point of our lives...... Just be considerate of others with

different views and needs.

Rob Driver · Guru

I wrote this in another topic but it unfortunately the topic was closed.

Guys,

Generators are not illegal.

If you are set up and want to use a generator and someone has the absolute need to camp right on top of you, then they have no rite to complain about its use.
We use ours on limited occasions when we Need It.

Since we have been on the road I do not recall once that someone has run a generator well into the night. They usually use it as sensibly as we do.
Solar is ideal and in some cases is cheap but if you have to pay for its installation from an outside source then it is not.
A generator can be retained from the sale of one caravan and used with the new purchase.
Pretty difficult to do that with solar.
Even people with solar have to run their tow vehicle engines in times of poor sunlight.

The thing I find Much More Annoying than a generator is when you arrive at what may be a beautiful bush campsite and our old solar mate has strung clothes lines from tree to tree like a Chinese laundry.

Did I say that generators are not illegal...

Regards

Angie and Rob

Jaahn · Guru

Hi smile
When we were up the middle in SA near the salt lakes we pulled into a roadside parking lot. There were several there so we went further along a track about half a Km. Had tea and settled into bed. About 10 PM a gennie started up at the main parking group. Out there every noise sounds loud and the noise carries for 'miles'. We did not have to say anything as we could hear the other irate campers giving their opinion about the noise and getting woken up !!! aww

Interesting that at about 5 AM there was a great reving rattling scraping noise and WTF I looked out. It was the local garbage contractor doing the bins in the parking area very early ???? disbelief

Jaahn

yobarr · Guru

Gundog wrote:
I wonder how much solar and lithium AH Batteries ans associated equipment, would cost to run 240v 230ltr Fridge, Surburban 240v HWS, 2 TV's 24" HD and 43" UHD 4K, Foxtel, Vast Boxes, 10GB Hard Drive 240v, Toshiba 19v Portable Desktop, Harrier Airconditioner, electric Jug, Toaster, Microwave, 65ltr Car Fridge on 240v.

Then the problem arrises where do you install the solar panels/carry enough portable panels to charge the battery/s, weight becomes a factor to consider, maybe we can get some sky hooks to solve that problem or I could buy a Toyota Farm Ute with a suspension upgrade to 6800kg have the ATM upgraded on the van, that would mean chassis mods, new suspension, brakes, tyres hang on I just put 4 new tyres on the van or buy a new van !

I'm sure a couple of grand for a genny would work out a hell of a lot cheaper in the long run.

Having 9x190 watt Solar panels on the 19'6"van roof keeps the van a lot cooler by stopping the sun from hitting the roof,and I still found room up there for my Sat TV receiver,a four seasons hatch,and another hatch above the ensuite.The van has an ATM of 3500kg,with 3200kg GTM,and has the same Mickey Thompson LT tyres and wheels as the car,which has axles that are factory-rated at 1480kg front and 2300kg rear. There are 540ah of Lithium (not the 560ah that I mistakenly posted yesterday) through a 5kw Victron inverter.I can run what I want,when I want,including my 2.5kw MHI split system,TV,Evakool fridge/freezer,microwave,electric jug,air fryer,slow cooker etc etc.There are 6 water tanks under the van,plumbed separately so I can manage ball weight as they are emptied,and I have two water pumps,one for drinking water and one for everything else.The grey water tank is over the axles.One laptop,two iPads and mobile phones etc use little power. No problem with weights anywhere because I bought a suitable vehicle and threw a couple of bigger springs under it to take advantage of the factory GCM rating of 6800kg. So easy.Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 15th of April 2020 06:49:18 PM

Gundog · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Gundog wrote:
I wonder how much solar and lithium AH Batteries ans associated equipment, would cost to run 240v 230ltr Fridge, Surburban 240v HWS, 2 TV's 24" HD and 43" UHD 4K, Foxtel, Vast Boxes, 10GB Hard Drive 240v, Toshiba 19v Portable Desktop, Harrier Airconditioner, electric Jug, Toaster, Microwave, 65ltr Car Fridge on 240v.

Then the problem arrises where do you install the solar panels/carry enough portable panels to charge the battery/s, weight becomes a factor to consider, maybe we can get some sky hooks to solve that problem or I could buy a Toyota Farm Ute with a suspension upgrade to 6800kg have the ATM upgraded on the van, that would mean chassis mods, new suspension, brakes, tyres hang on I just put 4 new tyres on the van or buy a new van !

I'm sure a couple of grand for a genny would work out a hell of a lot cheaper in the long run.

Having 9x190 watt Solar panels on the 196 van roof keeps the van a lot cooler by stopping the sun from hitting the roof,and I still found room up there for my Sat TV receiver,a four seasons hatch,and another hatch above the ensuite.The van has an ATM of 3500kg,with 3200kg GTM,and has the same Mickey Thompson LT tyres and wheels as the car,which has axles that are factory-rated at 1480kg front and 2300kg rear. There are 540ah of Lithium (not the 560ah that I mistakenly posted yesterday) through a 5kw Victron inverter.I can run what I want,when I want,including my 2.5kw MHI split system,TV,Evakool fridge/freezer,microwave,electric jug,air fryer,slow cooker etc etc.There are 6 water tanks under the van,plumbed separately so I can manage ball weight as they are emptied,and I have two water pumps,one for drinking water and one for everything else.The grey water tank is over the axles.One laptop,two iPads and mobile phones etc use little power. No problem with weights anywhere because I bought a suitable vehicle and threw a couple of bigger springs under it to take advantage of the factory GCM rating of 6800kg. So easy.Cheers

Yobarr, whats missing from your response is the cost of you solar/battery/inverter and associated bits and bobs, maybe around 10 grand ?

I might be able to squeeze a 1000 watts of solar on the roof, but there is a problem I dont have the weight available to put such an array of solar up there.

Also its not cost effective to spend than amount for a 3 or 4 times where it would be used, a generator a better bang for my buck.

Alas we maybe have 4 or so years untill we call it quits

yobarr · Guru

Gundog wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Gundog wrote:
I wonder how much solar and lithium AH Batteries ans associated equipment, would cost to run 240v 230ltr Fridge, Surburban 240v HWS, 2 TV's 24" HD and 43" UHD 4K, Foxtel, Vast Boxes, 10GB Hard Drive 240v, Toshiba 19v Portable Desktop, Harrier Airconditioner, electric Jug, Toaster, Microwave, 65ltr Car Fridge on 240v.

Then the problem arrises where do you install the solar panels/carry enough portable panels to charge the battery/s, weight becomes a factor to consider, maybe we can get some sky hooks to solve that problem or I could buy a Toyota Farm Ute with a suspension upgrade to 6800kg have the ATM upgraded on the van, that would mean chassis mods, new suspension, brakes, tyres hang on I just put 4 new tyres on the van or buy a new van !

I'm sure a couple of grand for a genny would work out a hell of a lot cheaper in the long run.

Having 9x190 watt Solar panels on the 19'6" van roof keeps the van a lot cooler by stopping the sun from hitting the roof,and I still found room up there for my Sat TV receiver,a four seasons hatch,and another hatch above the ensuite.The van has an ATM of 3500kg,with 3200kg GTM,and has the same Mickey Thompson AT tyres and wheels as the car,which has axles that are factory-rated at 1480kg front and 2300kg rear. There are 540ah of Lithium (not the 560ah that I mistakenly posted yesterday) through a 5kw Victron inverter.I can run what I want,when I want,including my 2.5kw MHI split system,TV,Evakool fridge/freezer,microwave,electric jug,air fryer,slow cooker etc etc.There are 6 water tanks under the van,plumbed separately so I can manage ball weight as they are emptied,and I have two water pumps,one for drinking water and one for everything else.The grey water tank is over the axles.One laptop,two iPads and mobile phones etc use little power. No problem with weights anywhere because I bought a suitable vehicle and threw a couple of bigger springs under it to take advantage of the factory GCM rating of 6800kg. So easy.Cheers
Yobarr, whats missing from your response is the cost of you solar/battery/inverter and associated bits and bobs, maybe around 10 grand ?
I might be able to squeeze a 1000 watts of solar on the roof, but there is a problem I dont have the weight available to put such an array of solar up there.
Also its not cost effective to spend than amount for a 3 or 4 times where it would be used, a generator a better bang for my buck.
Alas we maybe have 4 or so years untill we call it quits

Each to their own,and I am happy that you are content,but I believe that generators are a road to nowhere.Cost doesnt worry me,as I plan to travel this great country,in my van,for as long as I am physically able,and I soon learned that I will quickly get a return on my investment by saving nearly $15,000/ year on van park fees alone....and that's at only $40/day.Very conservative,when research showed that many places are charging up around $70/day?........$25,000/year. There are no plans to work,but as I have vast experience on MC vehicles,and can operate any sort of earthmoving equipment,except a grader,the choice of jobs is unlimited if I do decide to do a bit of casual driving.

-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 15th of April 2020 07:05:02 PM

Aussie1 · Guru

Hi Yobarr, Interesting comment that generators are on a road to know where? Sales are up in WA. When I rang the Honda Store over here To arrange an upgrade of my 2kva Honda to the more recent 2.2kva I was told they are out of stock and they will put me on a waiting list. Respect your opinion but as I said. "Road to know where"?

Aussie1 · Guru

Would all "anti generator" Cobber's please close your eyes please because this is a message for the generator generation only. Ok, while we are in a state of flux, don't forget to give your cherished generator a bit of a run every now and again while not needed. Or at least add some product like Sta-bil to the fuel tank to keep the fuel fresh. We don't want our most reliable power supplier suffer any more than necessary, do we? Ok you "anti generator" cobber's, can open your eyes again now.

Gundog · Guru

We have never paid 40 or 70 dollars per night, I think the highest we have paid was $33. Just out of curiosity where do you free campers dispose of you cassette contents on your long stops.

Cupie · Guru

Gundog wrote:
We have never paid 40 or 70 dollars per night, I think the highest we have paid was $33. Just out of curiosity where do you free campers dispose of you cassette contents on your long stops.

We pay a lot more than $70 per night for a waterfront site at one of our favourites - Tallebudgera Creek CP on the Gold Coast. They charge more on Friday & Saturday nights especially during Peak Periods. Of course they have cheaper sites.

High charges for waterfront sites are not unusual for Tourist Parks on the coast during School Holidays.

We usually set up a gazebo behind our van right on the water with my kayaks parked almost on the sand, ready to go.

Have a look at the prices on this site ... note that waterfront sites are FROM $79/night

https://goldcoasttouristparks.com.au/park/tallebudgera-creek-tourist-park/?start=6

-- Edited by Cupie on Thursday 16th of April 2020 08:15:20 AM

yobarr · Guru

Gundog wrote:
We have never paid 40 or 70 dollars per night, I think the highest we have paid was $33. Just out of curiosity where do you free campers dispose of you cassette contents on your long stops.

My comment was a generalisation,but for your benefit I have just checked prices around the area I am presently camped at on midcoast of NSW, and found that prices ranged from a low of $43/day to high of $84/day.Whether the savings are $15,000/year or $30,000,I think that you would agree that they are indeed significant? If I travel for 15+ years,as planned,on today's prices,my savings are between $225,000 and $450,000.The cost of my Solar pales into insignificance,by comparison,and I can live anywhere I wish, in comfort.Cheers

yobarr · Guru

Aussie1 wrote:
Hi Yobarr, Interesting comment that generators are on a road to know where? Sales are up in WA. When I rang the Honda Store over here To arrange an upgrade of my 2kva Honda to the more recent 2.2kva I was told they are out of stock and they will put me on a waiting list. Respect your opinion but as I said. "Road to know where"?

Hi Ray...if ever there is a national generator shortage,I have in my shed a brand new Yamaha 2800i,bought in a moment of madness,and not yet even started.Perhaps I should sell it,unlike the lowlife who recently bought 4800 rolls of toilet paper,along with 150 litres of disinfectant/handwash (?),and now is stuck with it all after the supplier refused a refund.Possibly there are people who sympathise with him,but I am not one......and I loved the single-finger salute given to him by the boss of the supermarket chain that originally supplied these products.Thise actions have gained Drakes at least one new customer.Cheers

Aussie1 · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
Hi Yobarr, Interesting comment that generators are on a road to know where? Sales are up in WA. When I rang the Honda Store over here To arrange an upgrade of my 2kva Honda to the more recent 2.2kva I was told they are out of stock and they will put me on a waiting list. Respect your opinion but as I said. "Road to know where"?
Hi Ray...if ever there is a national generator shortage,I have in my shed a brand new Yamaha 2800i,bought in a moment of madness,and not yet even started.Perhaps I should sell it,unlike the lowlife who recently bought 4800 rolls of toilet paper,along with 150 litres of disinfectant/handwash (?),and now is stuck with it all after the supplier refused a refund.Possibly there are people who sympathise with him,but I am not one......and I loved the single-finger salute given to him by the boss of the supermarket chain that originally supplied these products.Thise actions have gained Drakes at least one new customer.Cheers

Hi Yobarr,

Nah, I am a Honda person, mainly because of the great performance I have had from my current 2kva (14 years and hasn't missed a beat). They are such a small thing and run such a great variety of appliances. Perhaps you could try Gumtree for the Yammy.

I also very much agree with the Drake guy's attitude. In fact found his total "performance" very entertaining. Good on him.

Now you havn't told me what you meant by "Road to know where" comment above?

Ray

yobarr · Guru

Aussie1 wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
Hi Yobarr, Interesting comment that generators are on a road to know where? Sales are up in WA. When I rang the Honda Store over here To arrange an upgrade of my 2kva Honda to the more recent 2.2kva I was told they are out of stock and they will put me on a waiting list. Respect your opinion but as I said. "Road to know where"?
Hi Ray...if ever there is a national generator shortage,I have in my shed a brand new Yamaha 2800i,bought in a moment of madness,and not yet even started.Perhaps I should sell it,unlike the lowlife who recently bought 4800 rolls of toilet paper,along with 150 litres of disinfectant/handwash (?),and now is stuck with it all after the supplier refused a refund.Possibly there are people who sympathise with him,but I am not one......and I loved the single-finger salute given to him by the boss of the supermarket chain that originally supplied these products.Thise actions have gained Drakes at least one new customer.Cheers
Hi Yobarr,
Nah, I am a Honda person, mainly because of the great performance I have had from my current 2kva (14 years and hasn't missed a beat). They are such a small thing and run such a great variety of appliances. Perhaps you could try Gumtree for the Yammy.
I also very much agree with the Drake guy's attitude. In fact found his total "performance" very entertaining. Good on him.
Now you havn't told me what you meant by "Road to know where" comment above?
Ray

Hi Ray...that comment was meant to illustrate that the time that generator users can spend "off grid" is limited by the amount of petrol they need to carry.Solar is powered by light,not heat,and will work on cloudy days too....obviously not as well as it would work in bright sunshine,which is why I have fitted Solar panels that are more than three times my battery storage capacity.Then there is the weight of the petrol,the room needed for safe storage,and the associated dangers when handling it.But I am always happy to allow access to my 240 volt supply if necessary.Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 16th of April 2020 10:56:06 AM

Terryt · Veteran Member

I'd be interested to see the sums on the cost of running a pub off generators versus grid power. The only places I've seen generator only power is where there is no grid

Aussie1 · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
Hi Yobarr, Interesting comment that generators are on a road to know where? Sales are up in WA. When I rang the Honda Store over here To arrange an upgrade of my 2kva Honda to the more recent 2.2kva I was told they are out of stock and they will put me on a waiting list. Respect your opinion but as I said. "Road to know where"?
Hi Ray...if ever there is a national generator shortage,I have in my shed a brand new Yamaha 2800i,bought in a moment of madness,and not yet even started.Perhaps I should sell it,unlike the lowlife who recently bought 4800 rolls of toilet paper,along with 150 litres of disinfectant/handwash (?),and now is stuck with it all after the supplier refused a refund.Possibly there are people who sympathise with him,but I am not one......and I loved the single-finger salute given to him by the boss of the supermarket chain that originally supplied these products.Thise actions have gained Drakes at least one new customer.Cheers
Hi Yobarr,
Nah, I am a Honda person, mainly because of the great performance I have had from my current 2kva (14 years and hasn't missed a beat). They are such a small thing and run such a great variety of appliances. Perhaps you could try Gumtree for the Yammy.
I also very much agree with the Drake guy's attitude. In fact found his total "performance" very entertaining. Good on him.
Now you havn't told me what you meant by "Road to know where" comment above?
Ray
Hi Ray...that comment was meant to illustrate that the time that generator users can spend "off grid" is limited by the amount of petrol they need to carry.Solar is powered by light,not heat,and will work on cloudy days too....obviously not as well as it would work in bright sunshine,which is why I have fitted Solar panels that are more than three times my battery storage capacity.Then there is the weight of the petrol,the room needed for safe storage,and the associated dangers when handling it.But I am always happy to allow access to my 240 volt supply if necessary.Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 16th of April 2020 10:56:06 AM

Many thanks for the clarification on your thoughts. In our case the Cruiser is a V8 Petrol so always have enough back up fuel for the times we free (bush) camp.

Whilst we do have solar, so as you said if a bit cloudy or raining, it provides the back up I prefer. And in our case doesn't take up much space. Also like yourself I have always been happy to support fellow campers with the Generator power and have done on several occasions.

It is a great life (when we eventually get back to it) and good we all have choices without trying to "force" our personal opinions onto others.

You take care mate and travel safe as soon as you are able.

Ray

yobarr · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
I wrote this in another topic but it unfortunately the topic was closed.

Guys,

Generators are not illegal.

If you are set up and want to use a generator and someone has the absolute need to camp right on top of you, then they have no rite to complain about its use.
We use ours on limited occasions when we Need It.

Since we have been on the road I do not recall once that someone has run a generator well into the night. They usually use it as sensibly as we do.
Solar is ideal and in some cases is cheap but if you have to pay for its installation from an outside source then it is not.
A generator can be retained from the sale of one caravan and used with the new purchase.
Pretty difficult to do that with solar.
Even people with solar have to run their tow vehicle engines in times of poor sunlight.

The thing I find Much More Annoying than a generator is when you arrive at what may be a beautiful bush campsite and our old solar mate has strung clothes lines from tree to tree like a Chinese laundry.

Did I say that generators are not illegal...

Regards

Angie and Rob

Hmmmmm....interesting post.Pray tell me how Solar is not transferable from one van to another? I would be most interested to learn the reasons for this. And I am somewhat confused trying to understand why you believe that Solar users are more likely to "string clothes from tree to tree?" than are those who choose to use generators to interrupt the tranquility of a "bush camp".I look forward to a logical response from you.Cheers

Phillipn · Guru

yobarr wrote:
bentaxlebabe wrote:
I wrote this in another topic but it unfortunately the topic was closed.

Guys,

Generators are not illegal.

If you are set up and want to use a generator and someone has the absolute need to camp right on top of you, then they have no rite to complain about its use.
We use ours on limited occasions when we Need It.

Since we have been on the road I do not recall once that someone has run a generator well into the night. They usually use it as sensibly as we do.
Solar is ideal and in some cases is cheap but if you have to pay for its installation from an outside source then it is not.
A generator can be retained from the sale of one caravan and used with the new purchase.
Pretty difficult to do that with solar.
Even people with solar have to run their tow vehicle engines in times of poor sunlight.

The thing I find Much More Annoying than a generator is when you arrive at what may be a beautiful bush campsite and our old solar mate has strung clothes lines from tree to tree like a Chinese laundry.

Did I say that generators are not illegal...

Regards

Angie and Rob
Hmmmmm....interesting post.Pray tell me how Solar is not transferable from one van to another? I would be most interested to learn the reasons for this. And I am somewhat confused trying to understand why you believe that Solar users are more likely to "string clothes from tree to tree?" than are those who choose to use generators to interrupt the tranquility of a "bush camp".I look forward to a logical response from you.Cheers

yobarr, using Tarzan lines[ tree 2 tree] they are using solar energy to dry their cloths. LOL.

Aussie1 · Guru

Ahhh, the harmony between the generator brigade and Solar brigade just goes on and on. Noise versus enviorement versus etc etc etc.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Ahh the have and have nots !!! Go out there enjoy our great country. It was Ford V Holden . Now its Honda V Tesla ., Lol While Im happy just enjoying LIFE !! More important things to worry about ! Some loved ones are not with us !!

Rob Driver · Guru

yobarr wrote:
bentaxlebabe wrote:
I wrote this in another topic but it unfortunately the topic was closed.

Guys,

Generators are not illegal.

If you are set up and want to use a generator and someone has the absolute need to camp right on top of you, then they have no rite to complain about its use.
We use ours on limited occasions when we Need It.

Since we have been on the road I do not recall once that someone has run a generator well into the night. They usually use it as sensibly as we do.
Solar is ideal and in some cases is cheap but if you have to pay for its installation from an outside source then it is not.
A generator can be retained from the sale of one caravan and used with the new purchase.
Pretty difficult to do that with solar.
Even people with solar have to run their tow vehicle engines in times of poor sunlight.

The thing I find Much More Annoying than a generator is when you arrive at what may be a beautiful bush campsite and our old solar mate has strung clothes lines from tree to tree like a Chinese laundry.

Did I say that generators are not illegal...

Regards

Angie and Rob
Hmmmmm....interesting post.Pray tell me how Solar is not transferable from one van to another? I would be most interested to learn the reasons for this. And I am somewhat confused trying to understand why you believe that Solar users are more likely to "string clothes from tree to tree?" than are those who choose to use generators to interrupt the tranquility of a "bush camp".I look forward to a logical response from you.Cheers

1. I mentioned in the post about solar being a lot more expensive if you have to pay someone to install the system. This same observation carries on to the need to transfer the system to another van. To reinstate the old van so it may be sold, would be in most cases, quite a detailed job. Then their is a complete new installation labour cost for the new van.

2. Similar to your observations of how ALL generator users are interrupting the tranquility of a bush camp, the very last time we arrived at a bush camp there were two caravanners set up there with ropes strung from tree to tree and these ropes were adorned with their clothing and underclothing. My observation was that they were not using generators but were relying on solar. FYI we did not, in that case, use our generator as we can normally get two or three days from our solar and batteries which came standard on our van. We left on the morning of the third day and the Chinese laundry was still taking pride of place. My point is, one does not have to be a generator user to ruin the ambience of a bush camp.

Oh how I hope I have satisfied your enquiry.

BTW I am neither wanting or expecting a reply as both myself and others would like this topic at least to run its course without being locked.

Kind Regards

ROB.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Don't be surprised it gets closed Rob, it's starting to head in that direction yet again. With the same poster/s even. Will never learn or doesn't care Rob.

Keep Safe out there.

blaze · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
Don't be surprised it gets closed Rob, it's starting to head in that direction yet again. With the same poster/s even. Will never learn or doesn't care Rob.

Keep Safe out there.

seems to me it just goes round and round because some seem to think it necessary to have THE LAST WORD on the matter, its not even entertaining.

Hows the twins Dougwe

cheers

blaze

Cupie · Guru

Who'd have ever thought that this rather mundane subject would have gone to 3 or even 4 pages . LOL.

KJB · Guru

A bit like listening to an argument in an Aged Care Facility....

blaze · Guru

KJB wrote:
A bit like listening to an argument in an Aged Care Facility....

or a grey nomad happy hour

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Sugar ??

The Travelling Dillberries · Guru

I'll report you all to the YMCA.......or was that the CMCA disbelief yawn

Dougwe · Chief one feather

blaze wrote:
Dougwe wrote:
Don't be surprised it gets closed Rob, it's starting to head in that direction yet again. With the same poster/s even. Will never learn or doesn't care Rob.

Keep Safe out there.
seems to me it just goes round and round because some seem to think it necessary to have THE LAST WORD on the matter, its not even entertaining.
Hows the twins Dougwe
cheers
blaze

The twins a fine and safe, Blaze. I'll tell them you were asking about them when I next see them.

They live in Byron Bay now. Hidden in the bushes down at 'the beach'. The local ranger keeps an eye on them for me. He is very helpful that way.