Average Payload question -

Rob Driver · Guru

Average Payload question -

outlaw40 · Guru

only one reason for someone to twice bump a thread without adding any content ............. wont say but it starts with T and ends in ROLL . been band elsewhere for the same attitude.

Iva Biggen · Senior Member

Well said Rob, you are spot on.

Cheers
Ivan

Rob Driver · Guru

outlaw40 wrote:
only one reason for someone to twice bump a thread without adding any content ............. wont say but it starts with T and ends in ROLL . been band elsewhere for the same attitude.

Regards

Rob

yobarr · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
outlaw40 wrote:
only one reason for someone to twice bump a thread without adding any content ............. wont say but it starts with T and ends in ROLL . been band elsewhere for the same attitude.

Regards
Rob

Just to give you peace of mind,I will explain that the reason the reason for the 'bump' was that I was trying a couple of ways,unsuccessfully,to add a couple of photos of my GVM upgrade compliance plates that another member seems to desperately need to see? I had posted them in the past to prove a point,but this member seems to have missed them? When I find someone who is a little better on computers than I am,I will learn what to do.Cheers.

blaze · Guru

I would rather see a pic of the twins (hey dougwe where are you) biggrin

cheers

blaze

montie · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Peter,Nev,Montie and Kerry.You may be interested to know that I have sent a PM to Mike,the OP,explaining the upgrading situation,and the limitations. I also have offered to discuss his options with him,but at the end of the day,we now have done all we can to help prevent him from making a big,and VERY expensive mistake.Whether or not he takes our advice is yet to be seen,but I wish him only the best.However,I will say again that an LC200 cannot safely tow more than 3000kg as a pig trailer. Period.Cheers
I had told my wife Angie that I would no longer participate on this forum due to comments from uneducated and ill informed so called transport experts but this really takes the cake.
Yobarr and some others, can you please supply your qualifications with direct relation to the inability of certain vehicles to comply with all current laws after modification from approved Organisations satisfying government transport authorities.
I challenge you Once Again As Others Have to come out and state your qualifications to back up your claims and if any of you can prove that the approved vehicle modifications mentioned above are illegal or not actually approved by the company mentioned then use this as your argument.
At this moment all that is obvious is that we have a SELF APPOINTED EXPERT that has a set against LC 200 series vehicles as his original argument on this and other forums was to self promote his decision to use a 79 series ute.
Without engineering qualifications no one has the rite to contest the validity of a government approved vehicle modification and doing it on a public forum platform is bordering on SLANDEROUS.
This not only places the contributor in a liable situation but it also exposing the owners of the forum to a similar charge.
This is one of the main reasons why this person was removed from other forums.
Until anyone can prove by authorised statements that vehicle modifications are illegal, not approved or as was said in an above FB post to Lovells, trying to hide behind grey areas of the law, then these Approved Vehicle Modifications are just that..Approved.
If the Original Poster is still with us, you were offered advice to contact Lovells and from what I had read of your posts you seem to be on top of what was required for your combination to be legal with weight capacity so ignoring the ramblings of our self appointed forum expert would be the wisest move you could make.
Cheers
Rob
PS I should add here that very similar subjects have been going around on this forum for some time.
Most times they get locked or deleted. There was a member who was involved in vehicle transport inspections and modification approvals who used to contribute but unfortunately he could no longer stand the nonsense and has now left to go to another forum.
This type of thing is a real shame to lose a well informed and educated member and is to the detriment of the quality of information that could be available on here.

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 6th of March 2020 10:30:24 AM

Firstly I was not aware that Lovells would do an ATM upgrade on a caravan and I believe there is a question mark over towing 4 tonne behind a 200 series cruiser upgrade or not.

I am not doubting the legality of Lovell's GVM upgrade but I am seriously doubting the ability of a 200 series cruiser to safely tow a 4 tonne van. Discounting rear axle weight with a 400kg ball weight this is a classic case of the tail wagging the dog. A 200 series with ball weight and 2 people and a bit of gear will weigh approx 3400kg with a GTM of 3600kg on the back. Maximum combined weight cannot exceed 7600kg. All this of course on the assumption that a 4 tonne ATM upgrade can be done.

Bill B · Guru

montie wrote:

>

Firstly I was not aware that Lovells would do an ATM upgrade on a caravan

OP never said Lovell's would upgrade ATM on van.

Van manufacturer would do this subject to the tow vehicle having the Lovell's 4000 kg BTC upgrade.

Rob Driver · Guru

Montie wrote:

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 6th of March 2020 10:30:24 AM
Firstly I was not aware that Lovells would do an ATM upgrade on a caravan and I believe there is a question mark over towing 4 tonne behind a 200 series cruiser upgrade or not.
I am not doubting the legality of Lovell's GVM upgrade but I am seriously doubting the ability of a 200 series cruiser to safely tow a 4 tonne van. Discounting rear axle weight with a 400kg ball weight this is a classic case of the tail wagging the dog. A 200 series with ball weight and 2 people and a bit of gear will weigh approx 3400kg with a GTM of 3600kg on the back. Maximum combined weight cannot exceed 7600kg. All this of course on the assumption that a 4 tonne ATM upgrade can be done.

I didnt think it was mentioned anywhere that Lovells do caravan upgrades.

..................................

yobarr wrote:

Peter,Nev,Montie and Kerry.You may be interested to know that I have sent a PM to Mike,the OP,explaining the upgrading situation,and the limitations. I also have offered to discuss his options with him,but at the end of the day,we now have done all we can to help prevent him from making a big,and VERY expensive mistake.Whether or not he takes our advice is yet to be seen,but I wish him only the best.However,I will say again that an LC200 cannot safely tow more than 3000kg as a pig trailer. Period.Cheers

..........................

This type of statement is the problem ^^^

No where, so far have you or anyone else given this forum their qualifications to categorically claim that this can not be done.

I have been witness to many an argument on here from generally the same group that repeatedly make similar statements. The main perpetrator has a personal set against Toyotas 200 series vehicles and he appears to have this insatiable need to continually state how good his personal decisions have been with towing equipment.

That aside I am extremely surprised that a business man would enter into such an argument without the backing of an engineer or someone with qualifications so as he may be left open to claims of slander.

As others have stated repeatedly on here, I too have had a vehicle modified and upgraded to increase the GVM AND the GCM all legal and inspected and approved by the vehicle approval body but still we have the same uninformed rubbish posted degrading, denouncing and ridiculing the owner of the vehicle and the company that does the modification.

When I had my vehicle upgraded the Lovells manager was more than happy to show me a vehicle that they had modified to tow a 4 tonne approx boat. I find it strange that some on here think that they just re write the rego paper but there is a lot more in it than that. The parts list is extensive and includes couplings and other ancillaries to suit the increased weight as well as suspension components.

It includes the original testing and approval as well as the tests on the day of completion of the work for final approval by an independent engineer. Then, after all that is done the vehicle, at least in my case, had to be presented to the government garage where the modifications were checked, approved and signed off with rego papers that include the approved modifications.

It was interesting to note that on the morning when I dropped my vehicle to the Lovells workshop they had a 79 series ute that was part of a fire fighting fleet that was modified to carry well over 4 t. Once again this was all approved and it was a government vehicle.

I would suggest you do some accurate research rather than side with a self appointed expert that has no qualifications...to date..and then form your own opinion.

Unfortunately this topic like others on here will end up locked, or worse still deleted and some very good and accurate information will be lost. This happens repeatedly when the experts in inverted commas provide their inaccurate contributions. Unfortunately this plays into the hands of those who claim these modifications are not suitable.

So once more I ask, can any of you show this forum where these modifications are not approved for use even though the second manufacturer says that they are approved. Or can any of you show the forum your personal qualifications whereby there maybe just a glimmer of reason to consider your outlandish claims.

Just imagine for one moment if a senior management representative of Lovells actually signed on to this forum and decided to read all about his company. Now that would make for an interesting scenario.

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 6th of March 2020 02:14:43 PM

montie · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
Montie wrote:

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 6th of March 2020 10:30:24 AM
Firstly I was not aware that Lovells would do an ATM upgrade on a caravan and I believe there is a question mark over towing 4 tonne behind a 200 series cruiser upgrade or not.
I am not doubting the legality of Lovell's GVM upgrade but I am seriously doubting the ability of a 200 series cruiser to safely tow a 4 tonne van. Discounting rear axle weight with a 400kg ball weight this is a classic case of the tail wagging the dog. A 200 series with ball weight and 2 people and a bit of gear will weigh approx 3400kg with a GTM of 3600kg on the back. Maximum combined weight cannot exceed 7600kg. All this of course on the assumption that a 4 tonne ATM upgrade can be done.

I didnt think it was mentioned anywhere that Lovells do caravan upgrades.
..................................
yobarr wrote:
Peter,Nev,Montie and Kerry.You may be interested to know that I have sent a PM to Mike,the OP,explaining the upgrading situation,and the limitations. I also have offered to discuss his options with him,but at the end of the day,we now have done all we can to help prevent him from making a big,and VERY expensive mistake.Whether or not he takes our advice is yet to be seen,but I wish him only the best.However,I will say again that an LC200 cannot safely tow more than 3000kg as a pig trailer. Period.Cheers
..........................
This type of statement is the problem ^^^
No where, so far have you or anyone else given this forum their qualifications to categorically claim that this can not be done.
I have been witness to many an argument on here from generally the same group that repeatedly make similar statements. The main perpetrator has a personal set against Toyotas 200 series vehicles and he appears to have this insatiable need to continually state how good his personal decisions have been with towing equipment.
That aside I am extremely surprised that a business man would enter into such an argument without the backing of an engineer or someone with qualifications so as he may be left open to claims of slander.
As others have stated repeatedly on here, I too have had a vehicle modified and upgraded to increase the GVM AND the GCM all legal and inspected and approved by the vehicle approval body but still we have the same uninformed rubbish posted degrading, denouncing and ridiculing the owner of the vehicle and the company that does the modification.
When I had my vehicle upgraded the Lovells manager was more than happy to show me a vehicle that they had modified to tow a 4 tonne approx boat. I find it strange that some on here think that they just re write the rego paper but there is a lot more in it than that. The parts list is extensive and includes couplings and other ancillaries to suit the increased weight as well as suspension components.
It includes the original testing and approval as well as the tests on the day of completion of the work for final approval by an independent engineer. Then, after all that is done the vehicle, at least in my case, had to be presented to the government garage where the modifications were checked, approved and signed off with rego papers that include the approved modifications.
It was interesting to note that on the morning when I dropped my vehicle to the Lovells workshop they had a 79 series ute that was part of a fire fighting fleet that was modified to carry well over 4 t. Once again this was all approved and it was a government vehicle.
I would suggest you do some accurate research rather than side with a self appointed expert that has no qualifications...to date..and then form your own opinion.
Unfortunately this topic like others on here will end up locked, or worse still deleted and some very good and accurate information will be lost. This happens repeatedly when the experts in inverted commas provide their inaccurate contributions. Unfortunately this plays into the hands of those who claim these modifications are not suitable.
So once more I ask, can any of you show this forum where these modifications are not approved for use even though the second manufacturer says that they are approved. Or can any of you show the forum your personal qualifications whereby there maybe just a glimmer of reason to consider your outlandish claims.
Just imagine for one moment if a senior management representative of Lovells actually signed on to this forum and decided to read all about his company. Now that would make for an interesting scenario.
Regards
Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 6th of March 2020 02:14:43 PM

As already stated I am not questioning the legality of Lovells GVM upgrades rather the ability of a 200 series to safely tow 4 tonnes for the reasons I have previously posted. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's safe. It is my opinion that a large percentage of rollovers can be attributed to speed combined with poor tug/van weight ratio.

yobarr · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Peter,Nev,Montie and Kerry.You may be interested to know that I have sent a PM to Mike,the OP,explaining the upgrading situation,and the limitations. I also have offered to discuss his options with him,but at the end of the day,we now have done all we can to help prevent him from making a big,and VERY expensive mistake.Whether or not he takes our advice is yet to be seen,but I wish him only the best.However,I will say again that an LC200 cannot safely tow more than 3000kg as a pig trailer. Period.Cheers
I had told my wife Angie that I would no longer participate on this forum due to comments from uneducated and ill informed so called transport experts but this really takes the cake.
Yobarr and some others, can you please supply your qualifications with direct relation to the inability of certain vehicles to comply with all current laws after modification from approved Organisations satisfying government transport authorities.
I challenge you Once Again As Others Have to come out and state your qualifications to back up your claims and if any of you can prove that the approved vehicle modifications mentioned above are illegal or not actually approved by the company mentioned then use this as your argument.
At this moment all that is obvious is that we have a SELF APPOINTED EXPERT that has a set against LC 200 series vehicles as his original argument on this and other forums was to self promote his decision to use a 79 series ute.
Without engineering qualifications no one has the rite to contest the validity of a government approved vehicle modification and doing it on a public forum platform is bordering on SLANDEROUS.
This not only places the contributor in a liable situation but it also exposing the owners of the forum to a similar charge.
This is one of the main reasons why this person was removed from other forums.
Until anyone can prove by authorised statements that vehicle modifications are illegal, not approved or as was said in an above FB post to Lovells, trying to hide behind grey areas of the law, then these Approved Vehicle Modifications are just that..Approved.
If the Original Poster is still with us, you were offered advice to contact Lovells and from what I had read of your posts you seem to be on top of what was required for your combination to be legal with weight capacity so ignoring the ramblings of our self appointed forum expert would be the wisest move you could make.
Cheers
Rob
PS I should add here that very similar subjects have been going around on this forum for some time.
Most times they get locked or deleted. There was a member who was involved in vehicle transport inspections and modification approvals who used to contribute but unfortunately he could no longer stand the nonsense and has now left to go to another forum.
This type of thing is a real shame to lose a well informed and educated member and is to the detriment of the quality of information that could be available on here.
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 6th of March 2020 10:30:24 AM

Never have I said that GVM upgrades were "not approved".Never have I said such upgrades are "illegal".Never have I said that such upgrades were not "valid". All I have ever done is point out the indesputable....and it is indeed indesputable.......truth that the upgrade figures can NEVER be reached when towing a PIG trailer. Several times I have mentioned that,although I have many years experience with weights,I have no formal qualifications.One does not need to be a meteorologist to realise that it is raining.Weights and weight distribution are based around simple physics,a subject that some seem to struggle to understand,but there is no "wriggle room".....your weights are either right,or they are wrong.If safety is of ANY concern,and to prevent the "Tail wagging the Dog" scenario,always the weight on the wheels of the car should be at least 10% more than the weight on the wheels of the van. Some may recall the thread about the "7100kg GCM DMax?" where I received criticism and abuse from all directions until Boab went to the trouble of actually phoning the very people who had done the upgrade,and they confirmed that everything......not some.....but EVERYTHING I had said was true. The owners of that DMax then asserted that they were going to visit a weighbridge "next week" and provide figures that would prove me wrong......still waiting. When it comes to weights,I DO know what I'm talking about,as do a couple of other members. Our intentions always are to help those who don't understand weights,but many times our efforts are undermined by a couple of members who know little,understand less,and seemingly have no interest in actually learning? Many,many times I have accurately and comprehensively explained my calculations and the facts on this forum,but it seems that still some struggle to understand? Those members who are interested in this information may wish to search for the topic "GVM and GCM upgrades", or "7100kg DMax",among several others.It is because of posts such as the one above that I often now choose to PM members,and to that end, I have successfully helped several to get their weights right.Indeed,I am presently communicating with one such member who is well advanced in the production of a device that may well revolutionise the safe loading of cars and the towing of vans,and I am testing this for him. This member may well choose to present this device to forum members when it has been perfected? But you can rest assured that the information I post is correct,factual and designed only to help others. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 6th of March 2020 03:11:55 PM

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Mykringo.

I have run out of popcorn sorry.

All above aside because it's just going back and forth, have you given any thought to ditching the idea of a 200 and think along the lines of a F250 or even a Iveco Daily or similar. There are heaps of them out in playground pulling 3500kg + with eze.

I'm not getting any more popcorn as this thread is getting nowhere fast.

Sorry Monty, I have great respect for you.

Rob Driver · Guru

The simple fact is that the vehicle is RE RATED AFTER THE APPROVED MODIFICATION WORK.
Some of you are blindly stating the original specifications and applying the new allowable weights which becomes convenient for your argument but not true.

Sorry Doug and others...

This should get locked or deleted but I hope it doesnt happen before Lovells can come on here and verify their modifications.
Maybe the OP was from Lovells.
If I were the owner of a company that was approved by government agencies to modify a vehicle to perform a certain task LEGALLY, then some person with no qualifications on a public forum decided to tell everyone that you can have the modification done but you cant still use the vehicle for its new intended purpose, I would be pretty upset to say the least.

I did read on one of these similar topics that the administrator of this forum came on and quoted that anyone should do there own research and good on her for saying so, this is very good advice.

Regards

Rob

Rob Driver · Guru

mykringo wrote:
I should have made myself a bit clearer, I have made myself completely familiar with GVMs, GTMs, ATMs, GCMs, BTCs, TBWs etc etc so no this is not another towing weights question. The van we are looking at has 4.5 Tonne suspension although is rated at 3500 ATM to comply with the landcruiser BTC rating however with a Lovells GVM/GCM upgrade the 200 series LC BTC can be increased from 3500 to 4000 kG and the van's ATM can then be upgraded to 4000 kG giving another 500 kG payload capacity - I do not really want to go down this path if the current payload of the van (236 kG after water tanks are filled) will be sufficient for 2 people for a few months

-- Edited by mykringo on Monday 2nd of March 2020 11:10:48 AM

Hi Dougwe, with reference to the above post by the op ^^^^^

It appears to me that the OP May already have his tug and he just wants to upgrade it.

I was in a similar position with my tug when I bought my new van and that is why I had it upgraded.

It was too expensive to go out and buy a truck and have something that my wife was not comfortable driving.

I had a lifetime of driving trucks and my vehicle is a lot more comfortable and it is Legal to do what I need it to do thanks to the approved modifications from Lovells.

These people have no rite to degrade anyones product or service on a public forum.

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 6th of March 2020 03:32:34 PM

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 6th of March 2020 03:34:28 PM

montie · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
The simple fact is that the vehicle is RE RATED AFTER THE APPROVED MODIFICATION WORK.
Some of you are blindly stating the original specifications and applying the new allowable weights which becomes convenient for your argument but not true.

Sorry Doug and others...

This should get locked or deleted but I hope it doesnt happen before Lovells can come on here and verify their modifications.
Maybe the OP was from Lovells.
If I were the owner of a company that was approved by government agencies to modify a vehicle to perform a certain task LEGALLY, then some person with no qualifications on a public forum decided to tell everyone that you can have the modification done but you cant still use the vehicle for its new intended purpose, I would be pretty upset to say the least.

I did read on one of these similar topics that the administrator of this forum came on and quoted that anyone should do there own research and good on her for saying so, this is very good advice.

Regards

Rob

Rob,

I can't see where anybody is saying that a Lovell's upgrade is not legal.

As I stated legal isn't always safe and certainly not in this instance.

You need to understand that re rating a vehicle does not change it's actual weight, the 200 series kerb weight will still be approx 2750kg.

Admin has nothing to fear, everybody is stating the facts.

Rob Driver · Guru

montie wrote:
bentaxlebabe wrote:
The simple fact is that the vehicle is RE RATED AFTER THE APPROVED MODIFICATION WORK.
Some of you are blindly stating the original specifications and applying the new allowable weights which becomes convenient for your argument but not true.

Sorry Doug and others...

This should get locked or deleted but I hope it doesnt happen before Lovells can come on here and verify their modifications.
Maybe the OP was from Lovells.
If I were the owner of a company that was approved by government agencies to modify a vehicle to perform a certain task LEGALLY, then some person with no qualifications on a public forum decided to tell everyone that you can have the modification done but you cant still use the vehicle for its new intended purpose, I would be pretty upset to say the least.

I did read on one of these similar topics that the administrator of this forum came on and quoted that anyone should do there own research and good on her for saying so, this is very good advice.

Regards

Rob
Rob,
I can't see where anybody is saying that a Lovell's upgrade is not legal.
As I stated legal isn't always safe and certainly not in this instance.
You need to understand that re rating a vehicle does not change it's actual weight, the 200 series kerb weight will still be approx 2750kg.
Admin has nothing to fear, everybody is stating the facts.

A simple GVM upgrade increases the weight of the tug on my vehicle when loaded at least to 3800 kg.

STOP using the vehicles original tare weight for justification and stop using all the other standard specifications to justify your claims on lack of safety.

You dont think for one minute that all of this has been considered Prior to the modified vehicle being approved by government authorities.

The OP is going one step further with his upgrade to allow him to tow 4t for goodness sake..it is approved.

Yobarr has been asked on at least one other occasion to provide the details of where the diff in a vehicle does not comply even though the modification is approved. His reply was that it was the information gained from the original manufacturers specifications. For goodness sake the vehicle is being approved by independent engineers Prior to the vehicle being approved by the government departments, using the original specs has no relevance.

He bangs on about tow ball overhang but I was reading only the other day on another forum how a 79 series TBO was only 30millimetres shorter than a 200 series. The info was supplied by the owners.

I stated in a post above that there are extensive modifications done to achieve the extra weights particularly when you get up to the 4t mark and I only briefly went over that information because I did not need to go that high.

The modified and approved vehicle is not the same as a stock standard unit.

Has anyone on here actually gone into a Lovells agency and genuinely asked all of the relevant questions or is the extent of your enquires a negative attitude phone call to a workshop and because of the attitude of the caller he has not been given relevant information.

One last Q.

If I came into your dealership with my 200 series rated to tow 4t and a GVM that was rated to suit, would you sell me the van I want or would you turn me away to a dealer who will, just as the OP has stated.

I hope the OP takes the drivel from the private message that we havent read on here, to Lovells for verification.

Regards

Rob

Iva Biggen · Senior Member

Quote Rob:

If I were the owner of a company that was approved by government agencies to modify a vehicle to perform a certain task LEGALLY, then some person with no qualifications on a public forum decided to tell everyone that you can have the modification done but you cant still use the vehicle for its new intended purpose, I would be pretty upset to say the least.

End:

After the OPs question was pretty much answered in the first group of posts then your comment above really applies to the rest of the topic. These blokes dont realise the extent of the work and the different feel that the 200 takes on with the upgrades.

Rob, you wont win so give it away mate, you have done your best.

Cheers

Ivan

Rob Driver · Guru

Iva Biggen wrote:
Quote Rob:

If I were the owner of a company that was approved by government agencies to modify a vehicle to perform a certain task LEGALLY, then some person with no qualifications on a public forum decided to tell everyone that you can have the modification done but you cant still use the vehicle for its new intended purpose, I would be pretty upset to say the least.

End:

After the OPs question was pretty much answered in the first group of posts then your comment above really applies to the rest of the topic. These blokes dont realise the extent of the work and the different feel that the 200 takes on with the upgrades.

Rob, you wont win so give it away mate, you have done your best.

Cheers

Ivan

Thanks Ivan,

What do they say...

It is all fun until someone loses an eye. biggrin biggrin

Regards

Rob

Iva Biggen · Senior Member

Yes, it is fun until someone loses an eye.

My mum used to say that when we were kids.

Cheers
Ivan

montie · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
montie wrote:
bentaxlebabe wrote:
The simple fact is that the vehicle is RE RATED AFTER THE APPROVED MODIFICATION WORK.
Some of you are blindly stating the original specifications and applying the new allowable weights which becomes convenient for your argument but not true.

Sorry Doug and others...

This should get locked or deleted but I hope it doesnt happen before Lovells can come on here and verify their modifications.
Maybe the OP was from Lovells.
If I were the owner of a company that was approved by government agencies to modify a vehicle to perform a certain task LEGALLY, then some person with no qualifications on a public forum decided to tell everyone that you can have the modification done but you cant still use the vehicle for its new intended purpose, I would be pretty upset to say the least.

I did read on one of these similar topics that the administrator of this forum came on and quoted that anyone should do there own research and good on her for saying so, this is very good advice.

Regards

Rob
Rob,
I can't see where anybody is saying that a Lovell's upgrade is not legal.
As I stated legal isn't always safe and certainly not in this instance.
You need to understand that re rating a vehicle does not change it's actual weight, the 200 series kerb weight will still be approx 2750kg.
Admin has nothing to fear, everybody is stating the facts.

A simple GVM upgrade increases the weight of the tug on my vehicle when loaded at least to 3800 kg.
STOP using the vehicles original tare weight for justification and stop using all the other standard specifications to justify your claims on lack of safety.
You dont think for one minute that all of this has been considered Prior to the modified vehicle being approved by government authorities.
The OP is going one step further with his upgrade to allow him to tow 4t for goodness sake..it is approved.
Yobarr has been asked on at least one other occasion to provide the details of where the diff in a vehicle does not comply even though the modification is approved. His reply was that it was the information gained from the original manufacturers specifications. For goodness sake the vehicle is being approved by independent engineers Prior to the vehicle being approved by the government departments, using the original specs has no relevance.
He bangs on about tow ball overhang but I was reading only the other day on another forum how a 79 series TBO was only 30millimetres shorter than a 200 series. The info was supplied by the owners.
I stated in a post above that there are extensive modifications done to achieve the extra weights particularly when you get up to the 4t mark and I only briefly went over that information because I did not need to go that high.
The modified and approved vehicle is not the same as a stock standard unit.
Has anyone on here actually gone into a Lovells agency and genuinely asked all of the relevant questions or is the extent of your enquires a negative attitude phone call to a workshop and because of the attitude of the caller he has not been given relevant information.
One last Q.
If I came into your dealership with my 200 series rated to tow 4t and a GVM that was rated to suit, would you sell me the van I want or would you turn me away to a dealer who will, just as the OP has stated.
I hope the OP takes the drivel from the private message that we havent read on here, to Lovells for verification.
Regards
Rob

Oh Dear Rob your getting a bit stressed there! yawn

A GVM upgrade allows you to put extra weight in the vehicle but it would only make a nominal change to the kerb weight of any extra gear fitted by Lovells.

To answer your question we have never sold a van with an ATM above 3.5 tonnes mainly because extra regulations need to be met when you do so. If we were confronted with a 200 series with a 4 tonne GVM and a 4 tonne ATM van we would be carefully checking all the relevant ratings inc GCM,Axle Ratings,etc., and would be advising strongly that you look at a bigger tug like F250 etc.,

The manufacturers that we represent at the moment wouldn't build a 4 tonne van anyway which I might add neither did the OP's, that's why he is wanting to upgrade it.

IMO a 200 series towing a 4 tonne van is a rollover waiting to happen!

Rob Driver · Guru

Montie,

This is what I said above, I made no mention of the Lovells parts increasing the tare although I do agree that they would To a certain degree.

A simple GVM upgrade increases the weight of the tug on my vehicle when loaded at least to 3800 kg.

STOP using the vehicles original tare weight for justification and stop using all the other standard specifications to justify your claims on lack of safety.

You dont think for one minute that all of this has been considered Prior to the modified vehicle being approved by government authorities.

Note I did say loaded.

I am not stressed about this at all so dont you panic and I am pleased that you would consider refusing a sale based on your beliefs of a rollover waiting to happen but armed with correct information you probably could consider actually selling the product the client wants. Many caravans at 3.5t can be upgraded to 4t quite often by the stroke of a biro or at the least with very minimum work needed.

I think we could go on and on but I guess we need to both agree to disagree.

I hope someone does not lose an eye biggrin

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 6th of March 2020 04:58:57 PM

montie · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
Montie,
This is what I said above, I made no mention of the Lovells parts increasing the tare although I do agree that they would To a certain degree.
A simple GVM upgrade increases the weight of the tug on my vehicle when loaded at least to 3800 kg.
STOP using the vehicles original tare weight for justification and stop using all the other standard specifications to justify your claims on lack of safety.
You dont think for one minute that all of this has been considered Prior to the modified vehicle being approved by government authorities.

Note I did say loaded.
I am not stressed about this at all so dont you panic and I am pleased that you would consider refusing a sale based on your beliefs of a rollover waiting to happen but armed with correct information you probably could consider actually selling the product the client wants. Many caravans at 3.5t can be upgraded to 4t quite often by the stroke of a biro or at the least with very minimum work needed.
I think we could go on and on but I guess we need to both agree to disagree.
I hope someone does not lose an eye
Regards
Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 6th of March 2020 04:58:57 PM

Rob,

Dealers and the Industry need to be mindful of the Australian Consumer Act. Any van that a dealer sells must, under the ACA, be fit for purpose. Upon scrutiny I doubt that a 200 series towing a 4 tonne van would meet that requirement.

yobarr · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
Thanks Ivan,
What do they say...
It is all fun until someone loses an eye.
Regards
Rob

OR until someone provides some evidence of simple,indisputable,physics that supports their assertions? Cheers

yobarr · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:

A simple GVM upgrade increases the weight of the tug on my vehicle when loaded at least to 3800 kg.

And the chances of reaching that GVM are zip,zilch,zero,nil,nada.Please refer to my earlier post on this thread to understand. If a PIG trailer caravan is connected to the car,this GVM figure can NEVER be reached...NEVER. Cheers

mykringo · Member

OK, WELL, as the original poster I certainly was not prepared for all the above. Rest assured I do not have any hidden agenda, as I stated much earlier it was an innocent question posted by a newbie looking for some feedback from all you experienced travellers. The van I am looking to buy is a full off-roader and has a Tare weight of 2960kG and ATM of 3500 but with Cruisemaster 4.5 tonnes suspension.
So Dougwe I now understand why you needed a really big bag of popcorn lol - I believe my question has been answered so thanks to all who supplied feedback on typical loads that they carried and I so I will now consider my post completed.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Don't let go holding on just yet Michael, one doesn't like to be proven wrong.

What ever you finally do, enjoy, but

Keep Safe on the roads and out there.

montie · Guru

yobarr wrote:
mykringo wrote:
I should have made myself a bit clearer, I have made myself completely familiar with GVMs, GTMs, ATMs, GCMs, BTCs, TBWs etc etc so no this is not another towing weights question. The van we are looking at has 4.5 Tonne suspension although is rated at 3500 ATM to comply with the landcruiser BTC rating however with a Lovells GVM/GCM upgrade the 200 series LC BTC can be increased from 3500 to 4000 kG and the van's ATM can then be upgraded to 4000 kG giving another 500 kG payload capacity - I do not really want to go down this path if the current payload of the van (236 kG after water tanks are filled) will be sufficient for 2 people for a few months

-- Edited by mykringo on Monday 2nd of March 2020 11:10:48 AM
With LC200 pretty sure you can't have 4000kg GVM AND 4000kg towing......off top of my head,as I am not at home,max ATM with 4000kg GVM is 3500kg.

Absolutely correct....let's all get the facts right.

yobarr · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote..You Yobarr has been asked on at least one other occasion to provide the details of where the diff in a vehicle does not comply even though the modification is approved. His reply was that it was the information gained from the original manufacturers specifications. For goodness sake the vehicle is being approved by independent engineers Prior to the vehicle being approved by the government departments, using the original specs has no relevance.

Deary deary me,it seems that at least one poster is VERY confused? ALL my figures are given using the UPGRADED suspension figures,which are 2000kg rear axle (1800kg front) with the 3800kg GVM upgrade,and 2100kg rear axle (1900kg front) with the 4000kg GVM upgrade.Neither figure is even remotely achievable with a 10% towball weight... not remotely!

He bangs on about tow ball overhang but I was reading only the other day on another forum how

Da 79 series TBO was only 30millimetres shorter than a 200 series. The info was supplied by the owners.

GARBAGE.....a 79 series has a wheelbase of 3180mm and a TBO of 1200mm,or maybe a little bit more. This means that a 350kg towball weight adds around 480kg to that car's rear axle,and takes around 130kg off the front axle. A 200 has wheelbase of 2850mm and a TBO MINIMUM of 1500mm when a WDH is used,meaning that a 350kg towball weight adds AT LEAST 530kg to that car"s rear axle. This means that 180kg has come OFF the front axle......this can NEVER be returned by a WDH without exceeding the van's ATM,meaning that the car can NEVER reach its allowed GVM....NEVER.Where you obtain your figures is beyond my comprehension! Your confusion does not concern me,but I AM more concerned that others who know little about weights may well be misled by the rubbish you post? And always it must be remembered that the greater the ratio of TBO to wheelbase,the more unstable is the vehicle.Research "yaw" for help with understanding that. I have little doubt that you actually do believe what you post,but you seem to have little understanding of weights,and are sadly mistaken.Cheers

Rob Driver · Guru

From here Yobarr

http://www.lovellsauto.com.au/new.php

I simply ask that you prove this information incorrect

regards

Rob

yobarr · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
From here Yobarr

http://www.lovellsauto.com.au/new.php
I simply ask that you prove this information incorrect
regards
Rob

And the purpose of this post is? There is nothing here that I did not already know,and which I have not already discussed on the forum. You will note that the car has only a 3800kg GVM upgrade,which includes a 2000kg rear axle capacity...... only 50kg more than standard.Cheers.