Follow Up On Rear Axle Failure

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Follow Up On Rear Axle Failure

PeterInSa · Guru

BB, Sorry to hear about your bad news, is it worth getting technical support to back your claim.

Have a friend in the US who self insures his house, because in his opinion, the premiums are so high and the insurance companies are aggressively looking for ways to get out of paying, if not delaying payment for years.

Is this the future in Oz.

Peter

yobarr · Guru

Seems a bit strange them saying that you would not be covered because damage had ".....likely been caused by either a mechanical failure (U bolts) or a tyre blowout." Surely they don't think that they can wriggle out of a claim simply because someone's perfectly good tyre explodes,or your brakes fail....mechanical failure....and you hit a tree? Something doesn't sit right here,and tomorrow I will be calling NRMA,with whom I have 6 policies,for some sort of clarification of their position.Unfortunately,only today I paid them over $1000 to insure my SS,but your post surely will open a can of worms.As an aside,how did the respective premiums compare? Cheers

Possum3 · Guru

BB, Contact Colin Young at Caravan Council of Australia;
CARAVAN COUNCIL OF AUSTRALIA
3 Margaret Street
Parkdale VIC 3195
T: 0409 865 399
F: 03 9587 1828
caravancouncil@optusnet.com.au
www.caravancouncil.com.au/

He is probably the best Automotive Engineer specialising in RV Vehicles in this Country - I'm sure he can offer best advise.

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Hi Yobar, the premium at APIA is actually $300 dearer than what I paid 2 months ago at the NRMA ($980) but when I put forward the same scenario to APIA they said with them that I would have been covered. I don't have a problem if you want to quote me when you talk to the NRMA. I told them not only would I be cancelling all of my policies but I would also be giving feedback on both the Grey Nomads website and Facebook so that others don't fall into the trap of thinking that they are covered in this type of incident. It really rubbed salt into the wound when I cancelled the policies electronically via my NRMA internet account they hit me with a $30 cancellation fee on each one of them. NRMA said when I was talking to them that a car and caravan are treated differently in this type of incident - I agree Yobar the whole thing sounds a bit suspect to me as well. As far as proving what caused the event to happen I can't because the broken U bolts were not recovered, it did appear when looking at the damaged tyre that the inner wall of the Chinese MPR tyre had split - I reckon at 95kph that would have put a whole lot of pressure on the bolts that had been holding the axle in place.

Thanks Possum for the info. but I've got to the point where I'm just going to pay to get the damage repaired and the van back on the road, I've already washed my hands of any future dealings with NRMA. I will be heading back to South Africa in Feb. for another 6 month contract and I really wanted to get this sorted out before I left so that the other half doesn't have to try and deal with it in my absence...

Cheers

BB

Cupie · Guru

Thanks for the heads up on this BB.

I'll have a look at my range of policies (House, Contents, Patrol, Mazda & Van) to see if we have any with NRMA & if so will note them so that SWMBO doesn't renew with them.

I hope that the new work contract doesn't take you into danger.

regards & thanks

edit .. Just checked with SWNBO ... Patrol, mazda & Van all with NRMA.

Recent claims with Van when I ran into rubbish bin settled OK

& a previous one on the Mazda when someone cleaned up it & three other cars in a carpark went well too.

Of course they were clearly collisions. I'll check with NRMA to see what they say WRT damage caused by tyre blow out.

Big worry if no coverage. Not so much for my old van but liability for secondary damage to others' property.

-- Edited by Cupie on Tuesday 14th of January 2020 11:54:18 PM

-- Edited by Cupie on Tuesday 14th of January 2020 11:57:00 PM

Mamil · Senior Member

About 18 months ago now I had a wheel come off my van and blow through the side of the van around the wheel arch. To cut a long story short it was eventually deemed an economic write-off by the insurance company and they offered me a brand new van or cash settlement of the original purchase price, as it was less than two years old at the time. They never even inspected the van, or asked why the wheel came off. The insurance company was CIL. I'm not saying that as a recommendation, and in fact I was unhappy about a number of things that transpired, but their no quibble attitude about the causes of the incident wasn't one of them.

Damage 1 (1024x768).jpg

The Belmont Bear · Guru

I was also happy Mamal that everything was going through without a hitch, the caravan repairer said that in the past in his dealings with the NRMA they would probably approve it without even looking. After 6 weeks I got a phone call from the contractor who does all of NRMAs assessments and they said that they would need to look at the damage for final approval (which I thought had already happened as the repairer had been given a job No.). I met the assessor to look at the damage last week and he said no problem the claim should be rubber stamped in a matter of days and in order to save myself a little time I should tell the repairer to go ahead with ordering the parts from Retreat. He did say that the NRMA wouldn't cover the cost of the part that failed only the resulting damage so he wrote that the U bolt had been the cause.

I strongly suspect that IAG know that they are going to be shelling out huge amounts of money as a result of the bushfires so they are now looking for any possible loop hole that will avoid them honouring claims. I may be wrong on this but I trust insurance companies to do the right thing by people about as much as I trust politicians or used car salesmen. Be careful Cupie IAG happen to own a lot of the insurance companies that people are using and I beleive that the RACQ is one of them . When we bought the van in 2016 we insured it with a caravan specialist CIL but when they put their premiums up so much in the 2nd year we decided to swap over to NRMA where we had all of our other policies. The few hundred $ saving that NRMA offerred us for the same cover was attractive - in hindsight the dollars that we saved on premiums over the last 2 years will probably end up costing us a lot of money.

Sorry for waffling on about this but I am both angry and disappointed in a company that I trusted to do the right thing especially for a customer who has shown them a lot of loyalty for more than 30 years.

Cheers

BB

Radar · Guru

The Belmont Bear wrote:
About 6 weeks ago I posted on here about an incident that we had when the rear axle of our van came adrift travelling at around 95kph. Today I recieved a phone call completely out of the blue from the NRMA insurance who rang to inform us that they had decided they would not be covering the cost of the damage as it had likely been caused by either a mechanical failure (Ubolts) or a tyre blowout. I told them that for over 30 years we have had all of our insurance policies including greenslips and premium roadside assist etc. etc. with this mob and up until now we have never made a claim. I also said to the young lady that if this was going to be their final decision as soon as I got off the phone I would be cancelling everything with NRMA and moving our business elsewhere - as of midnight tonight we will be with APIA. I really wonder with the cost of these fires if the insurance companies aren't looking for ways to recoup some of their losses. According to both the caravan repairer and the NRMAs assessor the claim would have no problem being approved, the assessor even said to us you can tell your repairer to go ahead and order the parts..
BB

Sorry to here about your insurance claim and then drama.

Shame about the adventure you had when you hit that stump in the ground. Just saying that is an accident damage.

Bill B · Guru

The Belmont Bear wrote:

n. Be careful Cupie IAG happen to own a lot of the insurance companies that people are using and I beleive that the RACQ is one of them

No - https://www.iag.com.au/about-us/who-we-are

littledick · Senior Member

Well, as the TV add goes, with the money their saving, they can plant more trees!! cry

Have a couple of insurances with them, may need to review when due again.

Dick.

SouthernComfort · Guru

Sorry to hear of your plight BB. Sadly, this is becoming the norm with insurers 1. Customer loyalty counts for nothing 2. Their first premise is to find any possible way of denying a claim.

Worth noting that SUNCORP owns all these brands: CIL, AAMI, Apia, GIO, Bingle, Vero, AAI, Shannons & Terri Sheer insurance

IAG owns NRMA, SGIO, SGIC, CGU & Swann insurance. I believe RACV, RACQ and Coles insurance are also affiliated.

Seems all the major insurers are part of one group or another, hard to find a genuine independent.

-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Wednesday 15th of January 2020 08:36:24 AM

oldbloke · Guru

Very sorry to hear how you have been treated BB. But to be expected.

Personnally I rank insurance companies same as politicians, used care sales man and lawyers. Rock bottom

RACV & RACQ etc was owned by Club Assist, two brothers. But that was about 5 years ago. BTW, not a club, just a huge business.

kesa32 · Senior Member

BB , is there an insurance ombudsman you can lodge an appeal/ hearing with ? It's absurd you got knocked back on that :(

Greg 1 · Guru

We had a really good experience with APIA when our caravan door decided to part company with the van 3ks east of Mundrabilla on the Eyre Hwy about 3 years ago. Looked after us very well. Can't say the same about Camec the door manufacturer though. If they were on fire I wouldn't pee on them.

Bobdown · Guru

Sorry to hear about your experience with the blood sucking leeches BB, like others have said......take it further, they need to be held accountable.

We had a blowout cause damage in Karijini NP a few years ago, CIL were great and fixed everything, next year premiums went up by 50%.

Our new van is with QBE, seems ok atm, they have a downtime clause that reduces the premiums when not in use.

Maybe Retreat can come to the party as well.

Good luck Bob

markf · Senior Member

The Belmont Bear wrote:
About 6 weeks ago I posted on here about an incident that we had when the rear axle of our van came adrift travelling at around 95kph. Today I recieved a phone call completely out of the blue from the NRMA insurance who rang to inform us that they had decided they would not be covering the cost of the damage as it had likely been caused by either a mechanical failure (Ubolts) or a tyre blowout. I told them that for over 30 years we have had all of our insurance policies including greenslips and premium roadside assist etc. etc. with this mob and up until now we have never made a claim. I also said to the young lady that if this was going to be their final decision as soon as I got off the phone I would be cancelling everything with NRMA and moving our business elsewhere - as of midnight tonight we will be with APIA. I really wonder with the cost of these fires if the insurance companies aren't looking for ways to recoup some of their losses. According to both the caravan repairer and the NRMAs assessor the claim would have no problem being approved, the assessor even said to us you can tell your repairer to go ahead and order the parts..
BB

And EXACTLY the same thing happened to use when we lost a wheel about 30km from Hawker SA. http://jandmf.com/index.php/2019/08/18/whoops/ and http://jandmf.com/index.php/2019/09/22/whoops-pt-2/ . They wouldn't even cover the cost of recovery to a place of repair even though the front page of the policy quite clearly says they will. Of course it's all buried in the fine print that anything to do with mechanical failure isn't covered. We even went to the insurance industry industry ombudsman but no dice. Our insurance company WAS allianz.

Whilst hunting around for new insurance we found that there is noone that we could find that would cover such an eventality. APIA was the most up front on what they cover. Generally speaking, with most companies, you're only covered if the camper gets hit, burnt, stolen or vandalised.

Fortunately the manufacturer / seller of our camper came to the party and admitted that it shouldn't have happened and paid for the recovery, the temp repairs and proper repairs at their workshop.

-- Edited by markf on Wednesday 15th of January 2020 01:20:29 PM

-- Edited by markf on Wednesday 15th of January 2020 01:20:51 PM

Magnarc · Guru

BB A valuable lesson mate, loyalty only goes one way where financial gain is involved. Good luck with your efforts to hold these people to account, but, I wouldn't hold my breath!!

Cupie · Guru

Update on my unfinished discussions with NRMA.

Their on line chat confirmed that if I had a blow out on my car then any subsequent damage would be covered!!!! I kept a copy of the chat.

They couldn't comment on the case with my Van & referred me to another area. I am currently awaiting on their reply.

PS .. it seems that I a Loyal Customer & with 5yrs & 3 policies I receive a 12.5% loyalty discount. (My Patrol policy arrived today & the van is due on 6 Feb) I might have it sorted by then.

edit .. I am starting to form the opinion that it is likely that damage to the van caused by a tyre failure is not covered but any resulting accident might be. I'll pursue that line when I finally get to talk to a person.

-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 15th of January 2020 08:19:26 PM

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Hi BB,
The Federal Govt is looking at Insurance companies at the moment. This is mainly building & contents insurance.
We had the Assistant Treasurer come to Townsville in late November at the invitation of our local pollies.

As a lot of people know, Townsville had a massive flooding event last February but a large number of house owners & businesses are still fighting their insurance companies to get work started!
And with new premiums - some larger organisations are considering self insuring!

Friends (not mechanically minded) broke down on the Tanami last year. We were amazed that their insurance company paid $3600 to have the vehicle trucked back to Alice Springs. I hope the chap now knows to watch his temperature gauge!!

kesa32 · Senior Member

While we're on the insurance subject, what happens then to the poor buggers that roll their vans ? are they not covered either ?

Gus1949 · Senior Member

There is so much ill-informed nonsense in the posts above. If anyone has a problem with an insurance claim that they can't resolve with them contact the following:
www.afca.org.au (the Australian Financial complaints authority).

Moose2 · Senior Member

I suggest Mark F has it right...mechanical failures are not covered. What happened was not an accident as per the generally accepted meaning thereof and accordingly the insurer will not cover. They are very specific in what will be covered.

For those who have been told that such and such would be covered I'd be getting that in writing on the insurers letterhead because they can tell you anything over the phone to get your business, especially those sales people who are on a commission. If you ring say YOUI near month's end and the person you are speaking to hasn't met his/her targets they'll offer a cheaper price...not hearsay, this is from personal experience...albeit from a few years ago...may be different now?

Bobdown · Guru

Gus1949 wrote:
There is so much ill-informed nonsense in the posts above. If anyone has a problem with an insurance claim that they can't resolve with them contact the following:
www.afca.org.au (the Australian Financial complaints authority).

There is no nonsense in the fact that someone has a blowout or loses a wheel and the Insurance companies think up more ways to avoid paying out after years of taking your hard earned money.

The AFCA aren't going to wave a magic wand and get you towed back from the middle of nowhere. These posts are actual events not ill-informed nonsense, accidents or mechanical failure they can turn into expensive nightmares.

Cheers Bob

Cupie · Guru

Bobdown wrote:
Gus1949 wrote:
There is so much ill-informed nonsense in the posts above. If anyone has a problem with an insurance claim that they can't resolve with them contact the following:
www.afca.org.au (the Australian Financial complaints authority).
There is no nonsense in the fact that someone has a blowout or loses a wheel and the Insurance companies think up more ways to avoid paying out after years of taking your hard earned money.
The AFCA aren't going to wave a magic wand and get you towed back from the middle of nowhere. These posts are actual events not ill-informed nonsense, accidents or mechanical failure they can turn into expensive nightmares.
Cheers Bob

X2

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Thanks guys for the good advice as well as the support, as I said after more then 30 years of being a loyal NRMA customer we have now washed our hands of them. We have cancelled all of the policies that we had with them and gone with another insurer. I only hope that the publicity they got on this forum and on facebook pushed people to ask them what they are actually covered for with their caravan insurance before getting caught out like we did.. I managed to renegotiate the cost of repair with the repairer who found a couple of things that he could do differently to save us a few $ but at the end of the day we are still going to be a few grand out of pocket. The repairer was actually shocked when I told him that the claim had been knocked back as he said that the assessor had told him after looking at the van that he was 99.9% sure that the NRMA would approve the repair so he could go ahead and order the parts from Retreat (same as he had told me). I'm heading over to South Africa for 6 months in February so arguing the case with them or challenging them through what usually works out to be some toothless tiger government authority isn't really something that I wanted my wife to have to do in my absence.

IT took NRMA over 2 months to even get around to assessing the claim maybe if they had done that bit in a couple of weeks rather than a couple of months we would have already had the van back on the road - regardless of who had to pay the bill..

Cheers

BB

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Just to clarify NRMAs reason for denying our claim. I explained to the assessor when he was checking out the van that we weren't able to recover the ubolts. The rear tyre appeared to have had an inner wall failure probably caused by either a manufacturing fault or by running over something on the road. As we were doing 95kph at the time I imagine that would have put a lot of pressure on all the running components including these ubolts. Technically they are right there was a mechanical failure of the ubolts but I personally believe that they failed as a result of the tyre blowing out at 95kph - is a tyre failure covered probably not.

Cheers

BB

NRMA Denial.jpeg

-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Sunday 19th of January 2020 05:28:51 PM

blaze · Guru

The Belmont Bear wrote:
Just to clarify NRMAs reason for denying our claim. I explained to the assessor when he was checking out the van that we weren't able to recover the ubolts. The rear tyre appeared to have had an inner wall failure probably caused by either a manufacturing fault or by running over something on the road. As we were doing 95kph at the time I imagine that would have put a lot of pressure on all the running components including these ubolts. Technically they are right there was a mechanical failure of the ubolts but I personally believe that they failed as a result of the tyre blowing out at 95kph - is a tyre failure covered probably not.
Cheers
BB
Sorry to say bb but I have never seen a ubolt failure because of a failed tyre, I have seen plenty of failed trailer and caravan tyres. had a few of my own. Have seen them so bad the rims and the end of the axle are gone. sadly I think your insurance company made the correct call, but I believe a good assessor and broker with your interest at heart would have worded your claim different for a better outcome
cheers
blaze

-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Sunday 19th of January 2020 05:28:51 PM

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Blaze I guess it's all just water under the bridge regardless of what ever caused the ubolts to fail they aren't going to pay out on this claim because it says so on page 47. I'm not even sure if the damage had been caused by a tyre blowout that it would have been covered anyhow that's probably on page 52 or something. It doesn't really matter other than knowing the cause would help me to decide whether to shell out $800 to replace the rest these Chinese MPR tyres or not ? What probably does concern me is the conditions that they have listed here i.e. they don't cover damage caused by mechanical, electrical, or structural failures which is a pretty broad brush. So as an example if your van happened to catch fire you had better be able to prove that it hadn't been caused by an electrical failure or you would be knocked back.

Cheers

BB

PetenSue · Veteran Member

Sorry but I agree with blaze. Even from reading the original post weeks ago. Never ever seen a blown tyre cause suspension failure. The op said he had completed a trip through western nsw, most probably where the ubolts parted company. You were lucky to get home from that trip Im guessing. We have a very respected brand of off road caravan but after every trip we do I get the creeper and check EVERYTHING underneath. Sorry to say but maybe this damage could have been prevented by a little preventive maintenance. Regards Pete