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Post Info TOPIC: Solar panel and deep cycle battries setup.


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RE: Solar panel and deep cycle battries setup.


Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
T1 Terry wrote:

 


You will of course back that statement with your wallet Peter biggrin  


 And I have.

I recently replaced the 9 1/2 year old (and still working) Fullriver AGMs with those Newmax AGMs now happily running the house (including the electric blankets, the bread maker and the hot water service and all the other stuff) and sometimes being charged direct from the alternator of the Perkins, something you say can't/shouldn't be done with Lithiums, despite others doing it satisfactorily. 

I considered Lithiums very carefully, but eventually decided the cost and the risk was far too high for the weight reduction benefits they would give me. The AGMs continue to do everything we need to do.

The Perkins also has a new 125Ah NPP AGM crank battery replacing the 9 1/2 year old (and still working) 120Ah Fullriver.

Are you saying that AGMs will not do everything that Darren wants to do with ease? I am. And at a cost that is well below any Lithium option.

Cheers,

Peter


 Just to clear up something you are trying to twist to suit your own line of attack. Refer to the video put out by the same manufacturer you seem to support for other products. They are saying the same as I'm saying, it isn't the lithium battery you will damage, it is the alternator you risk damaging from overload/overheat stress. If you want to subject your alternator to such stress levels, who am I to argue, but I suggest others choice to ignore your advice about it being perfectly safe to use the alternator to directly charge lithium batteries .... unless of course your wallet is going to back that statement as well .....

 

T1 Terry 



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I've had no choice but to move on from NBN & its rotary dial phone sidekick because recently they were installing new copper phone lines in our area!

Screenshot_20180812-101607.jpg



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Whenarewethere wrote:

I've had no choice but to move on from NBN & its rotary dial phone sidekick because recently they were installing new copper phone lines in our area!

Screenshot_20180812-101607.jpg


We ended up dumping the NBN at home and fixed wireless internet at the workshop and extended the data portion of the business mobile phone. Now we have much faster internet both at the workshop and at home and went from $75 for the workshop plus $55 for the NBN plus $60 for the two phones and now pay $63 for the 2 phones, unlimited calls and 60GB of data a mth that we will never use even half off.

The original NBN would have been worth joining, but the pitiful mess we have ended up with after political interests got involved is a complete waste of tax payer's $$ with only a few of the Telco's coming out on top.

 

T1 Terry



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Is Grey Nomads Forum now allowing commercial entities to use the forum as an advertising platform?

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I don't see any advertising

Jim

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Tony LEE wrote:

Is Grey Nomads Forum now allowing commercial entities to use the forum as an advertising platform?


It leaves one wondering doesn't it Tony. How many links to web addresses for sales platforms constitutes too many? Do those pushing the links get a kickback or discount on their purchase in return for promoting the seller? We had one recently blatantly tell all here where he bought his batteries from, the brand and a clear promotion of this battery reseller using some questionable comparisons about just how good these batteries were yet showing no proof that the claims were genuine. Do we kick these people off the forum Tony?

 

T1 Terry



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I have often wondered what the actual paying advertisers think of anyone on here posting the virtues of another system or equipment.

When I look at the top of this page I can see at least one advert relating to electrical that the Nomad Site would get paid to have them place their advert up there.

I have noted also that even if someone asks an opinion on any advertised product above, there is quite often several posts informing all that they think that a different product is better.
Maybe its an agreed condition that the advertisers above would have to tolerate but if I were advertising I would be very concerned how some people on here are permitted make unsupported comments or worse still just troll the topic.

I would spend my advertising budget a little bit more wisely if I were some of them up there which if happened would be a shame as they all are actually site sponsors that would go to contribute to the site operating costs.

Many other forums have a policy of no naming or shaming of products which I think is the fairer way to go.
Naming and shaming products on a public platform can actually attract legal action from detractors.

I note that whenever an electrical enquiry is raised then the anti Lithium brigade move into full swing.

I dont think it will ever change so I am content to be entertained.

Carry on gentlemen.

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Ivan



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The whole advertising on the site is a two edged sword. If my wife advertised her business on the banner across the top of the forum then all would have a legitimate right to complain about that business being promoted by someone who worked there or was related to the business owner.
I'm very careful not to put up a link that directly puts anyone onto my wife's business or website and equally careful not to promote any business in a way that could be construed to being involved with any sort of favours in return for such an endorsement.
I do sometimes add links to places where a product can be purchased and this is often an Evil Bay site, this is just for an added convenience, not a product or seller endorsement, but adding that at the bottom of every post would become a major chore. Maybe I should add it to my signature line

T1 Terry

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Our 100Ah battery can deliver what ever load you place on it, there is no upper limit. The limit is voltage drop and if/when the load is great enough to pull any cell voltage below 2.8v the battery will be disconnected. We generally use 300 amp mega fuses but we have fitted 500 amp mega fuses where big loads from multiple inverters in parallel are involved. Voltage drop starts at around 2.0CA or 200 amps per 100Ah advertised capacity but that voltage drop at the terminals will only be around 0.2v to 0.5v, most of the voltage drop still occurs through the cables, fuses and connections. I've watched a 300 amp ANL fuse slowly melt the centre plastic shell under a 320 amp load, this was the reason for switching to mega fuses with their better contact area etc. As long as you have the T1 lithium BMS system running at all times, we offer a 3yr renewable warranty. Bring the system back after 3 yr and we will clean all the cell terminals and links and retreat them with anti corrosion compound, memory charge and memory discharge clear the cells and do a capacity test at the manufacturers specified rate of 0.5CA (50 amps per 100Ah or discharged to 0%SOC over 2 hrs) and give you a graph of how the cell voltages faired during the test to verify the cells/battery is still at 100% capacity or what ever the capacity they return (every one so far has still been better than 100% even after 8 yrs full time service) We then offer another 3 yrs warranty and so one. The 3 yrs isn't one of those "you missed the 3 yr service so warranty is void" things, we have had some we haven't seen back here for 6 yrs or more, systems we fitted in the front yard back in Lake Illawarra, but they still come up after a service and we are happy to still offer the 3 yrs

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Well actually, I didn't say that. Someone else wrote that infomercial

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Tony LEE wrote:

Well actually, I didn't say that. Someone else wrote that infomercial


Not nice to take things out of context Tony, by not mentioning the post you copied was a reply to a hecklers post put you in the same basket. I don't want to paint you with that brush so it's up to you to show you weren't just adding a support post to a known antagonist but rather making your own statement.

Generally an infomercial contains a link to a website or phone number or some sort of contact address, without that could it just be viewed as an information post? That was the intention, an information post answering a question that was asked in what was supposed to be "in all sincerity" but all the posts since show the true intent of the question posted:

 

So EXACTLY how much is this 100Ah Lithium Terry, can we parallel them, what is its/their maximum discharge current, and what is the warrantee peiod?

No BS, no spin, just some facts will do.

 

How would you have answered the question Tony?

 

T1 Terry

 



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Terry, your assertion that one needs to provide links and contact details to qualify something as direct advertising is stretching credulity way too far. That whole passage was written in the plural clearly meaning you and your wife and your company. No other interpretation is possible. You even mentioned providing a quote to supply a battery and that you supply a certain warranty on your products. Actually I don't care if you can get away with using fora to advertise your business and your products because that is a matter for each forum operator to decide - and I actually enjoy reading your side of the lithium evolution as well as those from other contributors even though I'm not currently in the market for new batteries - and you certainly put a lot of time and effort into your forum responses which is appreciated by all - but why not drop the pretence that somehow you can keep your business interests separate from forum activities under the pretext that your wife is totally responsible for all the products and services provided by your company and that somehow you operate independently.

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I try as much as possible to remain separate from my wife's business when it comes to giving advice on any forum. I'm not sure just what I should do when asked about an item I build and install as part of my input into my wife's business. I can't even claim I'm an employee because they get paid :lol: I don't get any money from any job that actually goes through the business but I guess at least it costs less out of the savings that remain in the bank so it could be construed I do get some benefit.
Kinda damned if I do and damned if I don't, so not sure how I should go about giving advice regarding a direct question about a product I'm involved with ....

T1 Terry

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About all I know about lithium batteries is How do you know that caravan camped beside you has lithium batteries ? Dont worry the owner will tell you within 5 minutes of meeting him ! . I enjoy reading about anything to do with batteries and 12 volt stuff because I really dont know a lot about it. I have a very simple setup in my tow vehicle and thats the way I like it. 2 120 ah agm batteries and a dcdc charger. No smart phone monitoring. Just a digital volt meter. My work ute is even simpler with a caterpillar battery out of a d8 in a cradle on the tray and a vsr with 2b&s cables. My caravan has (to my way of thinking) an overly complicated 12 volt setup, but the only thing I look at is the volt meter. I really enjoy reading what Terry has to say. One day when my caravan batteries die I will definitely look into lithium, but until then Im more than happy with what I have. So Terry at least one member here is interested in your posts and knowledge. Regards Pete

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PetenSue wrote:

About all I know about lithium batteries is How do you know that caravan camped beside you has lithium batteries ? Dont worry the owner will tell you within 5 minutes of meeting him ! . I enjoy reading about anything to do with batteries and 12 volt stuff because I really dont know a lot about it. I have a very simple setup in my tow vehicle and thats the way I like it. 2 120 ah agm batteries and a dcdc charger. No smart phone monitoring. Just a digital volt meter. My work ute is even simpler with a caterpillar battery out of a d8 in a cradle on the tray and a vsr with 2b&s cables. My caravan has (to my way of thinking) an overly complicated 12 volt setup, but the only thing I look at is the volt meter. I really enjoy reading what Terry has to say. One day when my caravan batteries die I will definitely look into lithium, but until then Im more than happy with what I have. So Terry at least one member here is interested in your posts and knowledge. Regards Pete


Thank you Pete, it could be worse, they could also be vegan :lol:

 

T1 Terry 



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Terry, forgoing all the banter, with your knowledge of lithium, could the OP legitimately piece together a set up under the $1500 mark if the does the fit himself and use lithium?
Working off your suggested 100Ah battery ?

I guess wiring and connectors can likely be left out as he says he might be able to stretch, but throw up some ball park prices of what you would suggest .
I'm thinking charge controller (maybe with dcdc duties) , 200W + of panels and the battery .
What do you reckon it could all be had for.

If you can, a budget build and anohter one of just the gear you would suggest if money was no issue.

As a quick comparo, I source my panels 2nd hand off houses as suggested my Jaahn before. So my set up would be cheaper but lithium has always been on the radar.


250W 24v Panel (2nd Hand) $50
EpEver 40A solar controller $200
dcdc charger (if needed/wanted) - Supercheap $170
AGM battery 130A from Jaahn or Peter's recommendation before - $269 (these are the supplier I have and recommend to mate - been good so far)

I know lithium is going to be more expensive but I thikn the OP and myself would both like to know how much more .

That would be sweet.

cheers Brett



-- Edited by denmonkey on Friday 25th of October 2019 03:45:55 PM

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aimless traveler wrote:

I know pretty much what camping fridge i am going to get, waeco cfx40.


 I'm running a cfx28, charging phones, camera, 4 Olight usb torches, charge AA batteries for toothbrushes & portable radio etc.

I would get the wiring right the first time as it is the most painful thing to replace if it is not heavy enough, & even more money!

My setup 4 x 26AH gel (space issues). 120 watt solar, DC-DC (will replace with smart version), MPPT 100/20.

If you can fit a larger battery all the better & the same for solar. Everything I have is 12volts. Cooking is with metho. Coffee beans we hand grind.

_MG_2513-crop.jpg

20180614135115.JPG

 

 



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Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

50L fuel custom holder, custom 6x20watt solar panel, Victron 100/20 mppt, 4x26ah battery, 28L super insulated fridge, TPMS, 3 compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L air tank after cooler, 2x1kg ABE.



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Please, you have to stop this charade about the 20w panels, you are leading people up the garden path and they are getting disheartened by the fact they can not get the same as you say you are getting from 6 x 20w panels or 120w of solar. This is what a real 20w solar panel size and output is www.ebay.com.au/itm/MOST-POPULAR-New-20-Watt-12v-Polycrystalline-Solar-Panel-MC4-Plugs-NEW-SIZE/322339354506:~3YAAOSwcUBYN8Ub the panels in the photo are a lot bigger than that aren't they? The open circuit voltage is 21.6v so you couldn't connect those in a series string and feed it into a 100v max MPPT controller, so what is the open circuit voltage of the panels you have?
120w divided by 12v is still only 10 amps and no one in their wildest dreams imagines you could get 100% out of a solar panel no matter what control system they used, yet you get more than 100% don't you?
So please, tell us what the short circuit amps are from your 6 panels and the open circuit voltage, that way we can get a better idea of what the real watt rating for the panels you so people aren't mislead. I don't care what the sticker on the back of the panel says, real figures please ......

T1 Terry

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T1 Terry wrote:

For $1500 you could put one of our 100Ah lithium batteries, a solar regulator and probably around 200w of folding portable panels. You could also add alternator charging to avoid having to drag the generator with you, maybe even sell it to fund the project.

T1 Terry


This was the post I made back on the start of this thread and I stick by it. If the OP wants to design a system for putting the 4 x 50w folding panels on a roof rack or something, that is fine by me. Unfortunately our cell supplier just received his latest shipment from Winston batteries and with the falling AUD compared to the USD, the cost has gone up over 10%, so I'd be struggling to include the DC to DC charger in that quoted price now.

That leaves one wondering, if the cost price is still increasing, why are drop in battery suppliers discounting their remaining stock? Possibly to clear the shelves before shutting up shop?

I have no interest in attempting to compete with the lowest cost items around, the reputation one gets from selling something that simply fails up the track soon clouds over any possible short term gain.

This quote remains a true today as the day it was penned:

 Benjamin Franklin: The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten.

 

T1 Terry



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I live on Sydney Northern Beaches & if anyone would like to check out the setup & do their own testing. PM me a message, I am retired so pretty much free all the time.



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On looking on the web I came across this
"More and more shonky sellers display battery capacity without the 20 hour suffix.
Capacity figures without the 20hr suffix are meaningless and in many cases this is done intentionally to con you into buying their product.

As you probably know, all batteries will return a lower capacity when you discharge them fast.
But it works both ways.
When discharging happens slower over a longer period of time, they offer MORE capacity.
So there needs to be a common denominator which according to Australian Standards is set at the 20 hour mark.
So for testing and capacity specification purposes you need to look at the 20hr figure or it will be like apples and oranges.
E.g. a 105Ah/20hr battery typically returns 125Ah when discharged very slowly, like 50 or 60 hours..
Unscrupulous sellers use this effect (google Peukert) to fudge capacity numbers to their advantage."

I studied batteries in 1958 so my knowledge of them is somewhat out of date.
But the above statement seems to indicates that a 105Ah/20hr battery will deliver the rated power as long as the load is under 5Amps, which is its rated discharge rate.
My fridge draws just under 5A, and then only intermittently.
I have a few led lighting bars and USB ports.
So I really have no need for anything other than an AGM battery.
I do have an inverter but only need it for charging up the electric tooth brush.
Computer, tablet and phone can be charged up via the USB sockets.


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Screen Shot 2019-12-02 at 8.21.38 am.png

 

Forgive me this is posted in the wrong thread and I can not find a way to remove it.

 

This morning on the ABC web site there was a story of Licola Village retiring their diesal generators and going solar.

They have 40 tons of batteries installed.

Here are a few screen grabs of how the batteries are interconnected.

Screen Shot 2019-12-02 at 8.20.55 am.png 



-- Edited by jegog on Monday 2nd of December 2019 10:06:47 AM



-- Edited by jegog on Monday 2nd of December 2019 10:09:05 AM

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Hello all Merry xmas and a good new year now I am in the market to get new battery's for my van the battery's I had in there were Reco100ah and a Absorbed power 90ah now they were in there when I bought the van in 2014 Remco has a swelling problem so I have taken them both out now I have put 2x150 watt solar panels on the roof now I have read and tried to understand all what you guys are talking about but me mm mm I have looked at battery's 2x 120ah 20hr Kickass there called $558 and I think there called giant 130ah 20hr carnt remember the price my couple of questions are if I get 120ah or 130 its not going to hurt anything and dose anyone else have any suggestions on good brands that's aren't to dear

Cheers

Chris

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I can't give you advice on battery brands other than to say for my starter battery I buy Varta Silver & the 4 x 26ah gel batteries for my fridge I simply got from Jaycar.

Your old 90ah batteries are 69% capacity of the new 130ah. The more capacity the better. If your charger has the rating the batteries will soak up the charge. 

The batteries will discharge at a slower & to a lesser % if everything else is the same. You will also have more capacity for those occasional times when you can't charge the batteries.

Do not forget that that the cost of the batteries is an amortised cost over 4 years. Hopefully with the larger 130ah capacity the amortised cost is over 5 years! 

 

While at it do a maintenance chech of everything & upgrade wiring etc. Manufacturers are notorious for undersizing wiring.

 

Spring Clean, throw out unused items for the extra weight of the 130ah batteries!



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Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

50L fuel custom holder, custom 6x20watt solar panel, Victron 100/20 mppt, 4x26ah battery, 28L super insulated fridge, TPMS, 3 compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L air tank after cooler, 2x1kg ABE.



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I have the Kickass 120Ahr, 2 of. 4 year old no issues.

Nothing fancy  just 300watts of portable solar with the regulator on the panels, 5m 10mmsq extension lead. Works perfectly.

You won't hurt anything going from 90 to 120 or 150Ahr. They are providing more Capacity only.



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2016 D-Max, 2006 Jayco Destiny, 2 dogs wifey n me.



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If you can shoehorn 150ah batteries in all the better & they will have a slower discharge rate.

I started with 2 x 26ah batteries under the passenger seat, then added a third in the centre. Then a fourth as a floater (in the boot while not camping or on the floor behind the passenger when on holidays). It just makes the system better. I am even considering another floater (5 X 26ah in total) as there is enough room on the floor for a second one, but will have to give up a bit of water!



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Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

50L fuel custom holder, custom 6x20watt solar panel, Victron 100/20 mppt, 4x26ah battery, 28L super insulated fridge, TPMS, 3 compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L air tank after cooler, 2x1kg ABE.



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Hi Chris smile

I have used Aussie batteries and solar. Work OK and reasonable price. They will have some specials probably and free freight. Google them. 

Jaahn



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Thank you all for your reply

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I was intrigued by the secret price for Lithium batteries and have been doing some research.
There seems to be a reluctance to advertise prices and I suspect that maybe some places are adjusting prices to either an estimate of the customer's affluence or to aid in on-selling various options.
However Jaycar to the rescue.
SB 2215, 12.8V 100AH LiFePO4 Lithium battery $799.00
MP 3741, MPPT Solar charge controller for Lithium or SLA batteries $199
MP 3746, WiFi Communication module for MP 3741 Solar charge controller 59.95

Total $1057.95

The MP 3746 is required to program the Solar charge controller. Need to enter the parameters from the battery spec. sheet.

I can see no reason why this is not a drop in replacement for an AGM battery system.

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Hi smile

Here is another site which gives prices.

 https://www.lfp.net.au/

No connection but have bought from them in past years. You can brouse the site and look at interesting things as well as knowing the prices. 

Jaahn 



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