Tow Ball Weight?

Morts81 · Member

Tow Ball Weight?

Bill B · Guru

Weights applicable should be shown on a plate on the towbar as well as in the specifications page in the vehicle handbook.

Google vehicle towing mass guide Nov 2016 which has lists the towing specifications of all vehicles generally sold in Australia.

Greg 1 · Guru

It would be helpful if you gave the make and model of your tow vehicle. We might be able to then shed a bit more light on it.

Morts81 · Member

Greg Our vehicle is a 2018 Ford Escape SUV. The wind up campers we have been looking at are Jaycos. The Hawk is at the top of our list at the moment but there is the option to go down to the Lark which has a lower TARE and Tow Ball Weight. We arent interested in going all the way down to the Swift which is the lightest.

Greg 1 · Guru

The information that I have found on your vehicle is that the maximum ball load is 150kgs. You would not want a camper with an unladen ball weight near that as almost definitely you will be over your maximum ball load. Be careful also of your vehicles gross vehicle mass as looking at the kerb weight it would not be difficult to exceed the GVM.

dabbler · Guru

Do you already have a towbar fitted ? It's unlikely there is several capacity towbars made for your vehicle (some vehicles have different limits for different variants). However, use the lower value of a) vehicle manufacturers max tow ball weight or b) towbar max tow ball weight (if they differ).

dabbler · Guru

Forgot to add, tow ball weights can get manipulated to some extent by shifting the payload around. However if water tanks are involved then you will probably lose a lot of flexibility with weight distribution esp if you are already close to that 150kg.

Morts81 · Member

Appreciate the feedback guys.
We'll be using our van for short trips (2-3 nights at a time) in the medium term as we have a 4 year old who will start school full time next year, not for long adventures. We'll always stay in caravan parks and won't be off-road. In 2 or 3 years we'll likely upgrade the second car (Ford Focus) to a larger vehicle with a better tow capacity.
I say this because we have no intentions of driving with water in the water tanks and we are unlikely to have much more payload than the annex/annex walls/bed flys and then general kitchen items (cutlery, etc...it's unlikely we'll have much in the fridge either, most likely have a small esky in the car to/from destination) and then bedding, etc. (Oh and a small tv to watch the football on course) I doubt our payload will total 100kg. We certainly wouldn't be carrying jerry cans, etc.
The Jayco Hawk internal storage area is predominantly below the seating which is all located behind the wheels which would act to reduce the tow ball weight.
My thinking on this would be that it would be reasonably easy to adjust this limited payload to unload the tow ball weight to keep comfortably below the 150kg limit. However, as a newbie to all this caravanning stuff looking for some help to make smart and informed decisions. The larger Swan has a lower tow ball load of 125kg but my partner much prefers the Hawk.
Really appreciate the advice and feedback I've been receiving so far, this seems like a great community.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Do a spreadsheet with every items including things like foot well mats, socks & phone cables etc. You will be horrified how quickly it adds up.

Example of items down the page in this thread:

https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t65110614/towing-weights-again/

-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Saturday 12th of October 2019 10:40:11 AM

outlaw40 · Guru

Agree with Whenarewethere you will be shocked at how quickly the little must haves add up. Especially with a small child in tow. Finally keep an eye on the minister for war and finance. , they can add a lot of things that you may not be aware of if your not careful.

Morts81 · Member

That is an excellent link @Whenarewethere, appreciate sending it through.
Taking a look through it there is probably at least 80% of items that we wouldn't consider needing as we would only be intending to go away for anywhere up to 5 nights at a time and we wouldn't be going anywhere but recognised caravan parks. We wouldn't need the jerry cans, water, battery, tents, tow ropes, etc, etc that seem to add up to be a large percentage of the total weight quoted.
Even if we were to load up with 200kg payload the van itself (1070kg + 200kg) would comfortably be under the manufacturer's towing capacity of 1500kg.
With the van's kitchen forward of the wheels this leaves the majority of the internal storage space behind the wheels (under the seating) so I feel it wouldn't be too difficult to load the van in such a way that the tow ball weight could be reduced from the unloaded 140kg value to closer to the recommended 10% of total tow weight. How practical this is though I'm unsure, experienced caravaners in this forum may be able to shed some light on this?

dabbler · Guru

How do you plan to check your tow ball weight once loaded ?

Greg 1 · Guru

I would very much doubt that you will reduce your ball load unless the van is dangerously tail end loaded which will have the tendency to sway like a sapling in a strong wind. I would be looking at either a different camper of swap your tow vehicle now.

Morts81 · Member

Greg 1
Yes, I think weve come to a similar conclusion. Although it may be possible to keep under the tow ball limit I think we are pushing it too much so weve started looking at the Jayco Lark which is a little smaller than the Hawk but has less than half the tow ball weight at 65kg.
Appreciate the feedback.

iana · Guru

I think there is too much paranoia over ball weight, it will vary even as you drive. A variation of 2% either way of the 10% rule would still be OK. You will probably need a light WDH for your vehicle. We had a Swan towed behind a Magna, no problems at all, towed beautifully. Our effects were stowed in plastic tubs and put in the back of the station wagon.
Seems to me you have about 400kg of weight to play with. Just go and do it! You have to start some where.
To get your ball weight just us a set of bathroom scales, but once worked out, just go and forget.

Greg 1 · Guru

That's not good advice if he's going to start off being illegal before even getting on the road for gods sake. We are not talking 10% rule of thumb here, we are talking vehicle manufacturers specified maximum ball weight. Can't just ignore that!.

iana · Guru

It seems that there are two tow bars available, std and heavy duty, the HD one has a 1800/180kg rating. Perhaps a good look for any lables on the existing tow bar is required, to see what is fitted, and then a chat with Ford and Haymand Reece.

KevinJ · Senior Member

I was looking at new vans on Saturday and of the 3 I looked at, all had TBD % of:

TBD/ATM

159/2800 - 5.68%

123/2500 - 4.92%

135/2800 - 4.82%

Are these too low or are they ok?

outlaw40 · Guru

Kevinj if you got those figures from the compliance plates then they will be weight at tare not at atm . so very like relevance in the real world .

KevinJ · Senior Member

Thanks Outlaw40. Yes, they were from the compliance plates. What does that mean when the van is loaded to its max ATM? What is the TBD to be applied?

KevinJ · Senior Member

That still seems low:

TBD/Tare

159/2225 - 7.15%

123/2011 - 6.12%

135/2203 - 6.13%

outlaw40 · Guru

KevinJ yes ball weight at tare can be low depending on the layout of the van . They are not designed to be towed empty . If you are looking at Australian built vans then 10 % or there abouts is a good starting point,how ever if it's European like jurgens etc then they are designed to run as low as 5% . Will depend on the van and above figures are a starting point only.

KevinJ · Senior Member

Thanks Outlaw40.

The vans I looked at are all Alan Graham's (Gosford) Essential Series.

Does it mean then if RMS check me with the van and I had 300kg TBD, I would be illegal on any of these vans (Assuming the vehicle was rated for 300kg or more)?

outlaw40 · Guru

no mate as long as you stay within the tow vehicles allowable tow ball weight your fine the idea of the % of ATM is purely for best stability. a van does not normally have a designated maximum ball weight as far as RMS is concerned only the tug .hope that makes sense .

outlaw40 · Guru

just to add if you check the compliance plate it will tell you at the top somewhere the actual maker of the van , dont think ( and I could be wrong ) Alan Graham would be building them himself Mostly when these yards have a house brand they would be getting one of the many van builders to build them under contract for them . there are quite a few brands that fall into this category .

KevinJ · Senior Member

The compliance plate shows Essential Caravans as the manufacturer.

To read back your comment, I can ignore the Max TBD of 159kg on the caravan compliance plate and have a higher Actual TBD so long as it is under the Max TBD of the tug.

outlaw40 · Guru

You will need to confirm with the manufacturer if it does infact state max tow ball weight then you will need to abide by that normally they dont say MAX and in that situation then its the ball weight at tare .

KevinJ · Senior Member

You're right again. It only shows Tow Ball (kg). So now I am totally confused. None of the values say Max, so are they only suggestions? (a bit like road rules in Vietnam)

outlaw40 · Guru

Ok sorry if i have confused you . Now we know that the tow ball weight on the plate is only a tare weight so forget that all together . You need to comply with the tow ball weight of your tow vehicle and you need to comply with the atm on the van plate and aim for about 10% of the actual atm of the van on the ball to achieve stability . Hope that clears it up for you .

outlaw40 · Guru

Again the ATM on the van plate cannot be exceeded. The tow ball weight of your tow vehicle cannot be exceeded.