Wikicamps forcing upgrades

rrakausk · Veteran Member

Wikicamps forcing upgrades

Mike Harding · Guru

Sadly I do not.

But I agree it's an unacceptable habit. I do not wish to buy new hardware simply because some dodo writing software thinks new gee-whiz interfaces would be "cool".

-- Edited by Mike Harding on Monday 7th of October 2019 04:28:09 AM

dabbler · Guru

There is nothing new about software development leaving older tech behind. It's been happening since forever. Wikicamps isn't the first piece of software and won't be the last. Anyone working in IT already knows this and shouldn't be surprised. The current version of Wikicamps uses far better database security, allowing new features like trip sharing between accounts for instance. Older hardware (that has been ignored by the manufacturers as too costly to maintain or receipt further), can't always support new, enhanced functions needed to implement and support much wanted features. If you want to blame someone, blame your hardware manufacturer.

The Travelling Dillberries · Guru

rrakausk wrote:
Anyone else noticed Wikicamps no longer works properly on older Iphones?
i have had enough of app developers that deliberately cripple perfectly working software and force you to update your
IOS on the phone. Which usually cripples the phone if it is older, so you have to go buy an new one.
So bye bye Wikicamps.
Anyone know of a similar camping app that will work on an Iphone 6?
cheers

The campsaustralis App is very good and will work for you,

Meredith · Senior Member

My job prior to retiring was Quality Assurance for a software company and I can assure you that for the software/app makers like Wikicamps its not a matter of wanting to force you to update your IOS (why would they, Wikicamps has no financial or other interest in your IOS software) its much that the software maker has to meet standards and testing to allow their software/app to be available on places like the Apple store, and that requires it to work with newer updates which generally aren't compatable with older ones. If it doesn't work on your older Iphone the problem I can assure you is Apple, not Wikicamps.

The Belmont Bear · Guru

A lot of the applications that I open lately on my Apple devices are telling me that they are no longer supported with IOS upgrades - they say that in the short term they will still run but they dont say for how long or even how well. Apparently their IOS software is moving from 32 to 64 bit technology, whatever that means. What annoys me even more with this change is that I now have to pay a $120/yr license fee to run the newer supported version of something that I already owned i.e. Microsoft Office.

Cheers
BB

jade46 · Senior Member

Yes I had the problem with a five year old smart phone Wikicamps would no longer function on. After mouch too and fro with them I was told I was a dinosaur with a antique phone. The new version does nothing the old one didn't do just a whole lot more pictures and graphics. The icon based menu has been replaced with tiny print most of us can't read. A stupid upgrade that was not necessary

Yendorane · Senior Member

What annoys me is that the new update doesn't work on windows 8.1 so that buggers me using it any more

Rob Driver · Guru

Hi all,

Is there somewhere to go to find out if your phone will support an upgrade?

I have an IPhone 7 and it updated automatically and now the filter menu doesnt seem to work as it should.
A mate of mine has an IPhone 6 and he has turned off all updates and he still is using tho old version of wiki Camps without any problem.

Experts say you should keep your phone updated to provide protection against hacking etc

So damned if you do and damned if you dont.

Regards

Rob

Eaglemax · Guru

It's happening across the board on most things we consume.

Last year I ordered many parts from a major trailer parts supplier for my build. When ordering the mechanical brake trailer coupling I was told they had one, 2000kg maximum towing rate. Ok, I should have done more research as there was a 1000kg tow hitch available in only a couple of outlets in the country made by AL-KO.

So, not having much braking capacity (ATM 1000kg) I rang AL-KO and they said they distributed the 1000kg unit and that it will bolt straight on as the body is identical. Great, "do you sell the spring separately"?

No!. You have to buy the whole body. $127 + postage. Not too big a deal but think of the wastage and the number of items gathering in mens sheds throughout the country going to waste.

Another item for that garage sale.

Tony

dabbler · Guru

bentalebabe/Rob. The Wikicamps website has the required specs for all platforms. If a device or operating system doesn't meet the minimum specs, the relevant app store won't show or allow an update. While Wikicamps hasn't specifically mentioned anything, it's likely older versions will stop connecting to servers and their database will become outdated. It's possible they will just stop working.

Mike Harding · Guru

dabbler wrote:
If a device or operating system doesn't meet the minimum specs, the relevant app store won't show or allow an update.

Nor will it show an older version which is compatible with your device and this is where the whole thing really falls apart, as I pointed out in a recent post.

And whilst, dabbler, what you say about database compatibility has merit most apps. don't use an on-line database but the inability to restore them still applies.

The moral is to use an app. extractor and make backup copies of all the apps you wish to retain.

All this is probably illegal under Australian consumer law but I don't think we'll get the ACCC to take on Google/Apple.

Edit:

There is no reason the on-line database could not support legacy access, that is purely a developer choice.

-- Edited by Mike Harding on Monday 7th of October 2019 03:25:27 PM

dabbler · Guru

Mike, WC does use an online database that is synced every time you open the app with an internet connection. It's designed to function offline if you prepare, but it's essentially a client-server model. As a crowd-sourced app, access to the crowd is paramount.

dabbler · Guru

Oh, and database security has been needed up. Why would any user if the current version, with better security, accept a previous version accessing the same database without following up to date security protocols ?

vince56 · Senior Member

9 year old iPhone, use Wikicamps no problems at all, cant see the issue?

delapan · Senior Member

Hi Rrak, i use iphone 6s+ with Campermate, no probs at all, hope this helps...

ps i deleted wikicamps for same reason

-- Edited by delapan on Monday 7th of October 2019 05:42:25 PM

The Belmont Bear · Guru

I run Wikicamps and the fuel app. on a 12 month old Ipad pro which uses the latest IOS version 12.4.1 without a problem (I checked and 12.4 is also what my iphone 6 is currently using ). I went into tha app. store and it says that the Wikicamps app. will need IOS 10.2 or greater to run so providing you have meet that requirement then according to them it should work. If it was me I would try removing the app. from my phone then going back into the store and downloading it again, if you already purchased Wikicamps then it shouldn't cost you anything to do it. I can't tell you if everything works on the Iphone 6 because I only have it loaded onto the iPad. You can easily check what version your Iphone or iPad is running by going into Settings/General/About/Version.

Cheers

BB

PeterX · Senior Member

Some comments here are not correct.
I have worked as a software developer and software tester for a number of years.

I have a iphone 6+ and agree the problem is annoying and expensive.
However, there are a number of reasons for the situation.
I believe when these reasons are considered and understood, the situation is reasonable.

Looking at iPhone 6
Wikipedia shows it was released in Sep 2014.
It has just dropped as supported hardware by IOS, it will not run IOS 13 and I believe you are no longer able to get the IOS 12 update for iphone 6 hardware.
My point is it was supported hardware for 5 YEARS.

Since iPhone 6 , there have been several hardware updates and several IOS software updates.

For software and hardware to be supported by apple and or developers the combination has to be tested.
This can be a expensive situation, So as the number of users decrease for older hardware , at some stage it becomes just too expensive.

Unless you are a software devoloper you may not realize how complicated all this starts to get.
For example - Future (IOS) software versions may not be backward compatible with old IOS client software versions .
This can be caused by enhancements in the newly released IOS Apple software.

Also once hardware (example iPhone 6) becomes unsupported (by Apple) a developer can NO longer release any updates for the software.

I'm not familiar with the exact technical reasons, but maybe to continue to support iPhone6, developer needs to multiple database instances? OR have lots of decision points in code is the iPhone 6 OR is it later hardware , then do this or do that.
This gets complex with lots of different code paths and becomes error / bug prone , more time consuming to write. For a decreasing number of users of old hardware.

The developer is probably just one person, doing in spare time and has limited resources , particularly time wise.
There are other reasons for the situation, the above is just a few I thought of.

-- Edited by PeterX on Tuesday 8th of October 2019 07:59:02 AM

Rob Driver · Guru

dabbler wrote:
bentalebabe/Rob. The Wikicamps website has the required specs for all platforms. If a device or operating system doesn't meet the minimum specs, the relevant app store won't show or allow an update. While Wikicamps hasn't specifically mentioned anything, it's likely older versions will stop connecting to servers and their database will become outdated. It's possible they will just stop working.

Thanks dabbler,

My WC updated automatically and its new skin on the app seems good.

I guess I dont want my IPhone 7 to be classed as outdated but I should be facing facts that it will be eventually. It may be my lack of understanding of the filters and how to use them that is the problem.

I will open the app when I have time and have a play with it.

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Tuesday 8th of October 2019 08:03:58 AM

laurieoz · Senior Member

I Have a IPhone 6
I am using the new Wiki Camps -no problem after getting used to it.
Also yesterday I got a notification of upgrade to IOS 12.4.2 and have installed it ok
Laurie

The Belmont Bear · Guru

PeterX wrote:
Some comments here are not correct.
I have worked as a software developer and software tester for a number of years.

I have a iphone 6+ and agree the problem is annoying and expensive.
However, there are a number of reasons for the situation.
I believe when these reasons are considered and understood, the situation is reasonable.

Looking at iPhone 6
Wikipedia shows it was released in Sep 2014.
It has just dropped as supported hardware by IOS, it will not run IOS 13 and I believe you are no longer able to get the IOS 12 update for iphone 6 hardware.
My point is it was supported hardware for 5 YEARS.

Since iPhone 6 , there have been several hardware updates and several IOS software updates.

For software and hardware to be supported by apple and or developers the combination has to be tested.
This can be a expensive situation, So as the number of users decrease for older hardware , at some stage it becomes just too expensive.

Unless you are a software devoloper you may not realize how complicated all this starts to get.
For example - Future (IOS) software versions may not be backward compatible with old IOS client software versions .
This can be caused by enhancements in the newly released IOS Apple software.

Also once hardware (example iPhone 6) becomes unsupported (by Apple) a developer can NO longer release any updates for the software.

I'm not familiar with the exact technical reasons, but maybe to continue to support iPhone6, developer needs to multiple database instances? OR have lots of decision points in code is the iPhone 6 OR is it later hardware , then do this or do that.
This gets complex with lots of different code paths and becomes error / bug prone , more time consuming to write. For a decreasing number of users of old hardware.

The developer is probably just one person, doing in spare time and has limited resources , particularly time wise.
There are other reasons for the situation, the above is just a few I thought of.

-- Edited by PeterX on Tuesday 8th of October 2019 07:59:02 AM

Hi PeterX, I downloaded IOS 12.4.2 onto my Iphone 6 only a few weeks ago so version 12 is definately available for that hardware. They are saying that 12.4.4 is going to be the last IOS update for Iphone 6 at the moment at least the operating system upgrades are still available. Apple have admitted that they do slow down their older phones which they claim is something to do with the life of the batteries - personally I believe that it's more to do with selling you a new one. My Iphone 6 even after the support ceases will still be able do what I need it to do i.e. make phone calls, send text messages, take a photo so I'm in no hurry to spend the $1300+ required for the new model ...The advantage of having a newer Ipad is that newer apps. will run, both the screen and keyboard entry pads are bigger, it takes better quality photos, I can be used for browsing, plays music through the cars audio system via bluetooth or USB, it has more memory and when in range it pairs with the Iphone so I can answer or make calls send text messages etc.. It probably works out cheaper for me to keep my Iphone 6 for general use and use the iPad to interface with it when travelling.. no doubt you can probably do something similar with Android devices.

Cheers

BB

-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Tuesday 8th of October 2019 11:07:26 AM

bgt · Guru

While hardware updates are a PITA it's to be expected nowadays. I'm a freelance photographer. All my hardware is no more than 5 years old. Yet ink for my old faithful printer is no longer available. So I need a new printer. Editing software is continually being 'upgraded' and 'old' computers will struggle to work with the newer software. (Shift from CPU to GPU performance). So I'm looking at having to replace what is otherwise good hardware. There are two issues at play here. First we ALL demand more features and performance. So developers are giving us what we asked for. And without the need for 'new' hardware the manufacturers go out of business. "It's all a conspiracy man".

Rob Driver · Guru

I am not as experienced in all things computer as some of you guys but I have been fiddling around in the new app this morning and I clicked onto trip planner and found that the world map of 3.1mb was a compulsory download.
I downloaded it along with all of Australia so I can use it off line.
I then went back to the filters and they all seemed to work as they did on the old app so now I am happy.
I have no explanation but I am happy.

Regards

Rob

The Belmont Bear · Guru

OConsidering the nature of this thread its probably a bit coincidental but on Sunday I bought a new 27inch 5K retina display Imac that is using the not very old IOS Mojave platform, just a few minutes ago I got a message from Apple that the new IOS greatly enhanced Catalina platform is now ready to download. Wouldnt you have thought that the Apple store would have known that this upgrade was imminent and loaded the new version on the machine for me now its going to take 8GB of my own wireless data and probably at least an hour to download it. Seriously how are people supposed to keep up with the pace and cost of these changes ?

Cheers

BB

-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Tuesday 8th of October 2019 02:08:02 PM

-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Tuesday 8th of October 2019 02:08:30 PM

Oka374 · Veteran Member

I just turned a tablet on that hasn't been used for a couple of months and after a few other updates Wikicamps refused and said "not compatible with this device" . As the tablet still functions perfectly and still with excellent battery life it won't be replaced any time soon so it looks like Wikicamps won't be used by us anymore.
Just turned the 2 year old Sony mobile on just now and it too has refused to install the update either and it is up to date with the current OS installed.
Looks like Goodbye Wikicamps, sad to see you shoot yourselves in the foot and abandon your users the majority of who will be also possibly be reluctant to replace perfectly good phones and tablets to enable your app to be used.
Shock horror might have to get a new Camps book, they might not have been so stupid after all persisting with the printed competitor!

Mike Harding · Guru

Oka374 wrote:
I just turned a tablet on that hasn't been used for a couple of months and after a few other updates Wikicamps refused and said "not compatible with this device" . As the tablet still functions perfectly and still with excellent battery life it won't be replaced any time soon so it looks like Wikicamps won't be used by us anymore.

This is exactly the issue I have raised over the past few months; people should not be expected to buy new hardware simply because a random decision was taken to change some software.

Why isn't a previous version, which will run on your hardware, available?

If I have an opportunity today I'll upload an earlier version of Wikicamps to a website and post the link here.

Perhaps an e-mail to the Wikicamps developer asking the above would be in order?

Mike Harding · Guru

This an earlier version of Wikicamps which runs on Android 4 and probably earlier versions too:

https://gofile.io/?c=W6S0U5

You will need to change:

Settings

Security

Unknown Sources

Allow installation of apps. from unknown sources

to "On"

If your file browser does not have a feature for installing APK files you can download a small app. from the Play Store to do so.

PS. The above, free, file sharing site will issue a pop-up asking if you want a VPN - click the "I already have one" button.

Oka374 · Veteran Member

Thanks for doing that but the problem still is that while Wikicamps will run happily with the older version it no longer updates, both my tablet and phone are pegged at April 2019 as far as updates and comments go so the app has lost its timeliness factor.

Mike Harding · Guru

You are correct it unfortunately appears.

This is purely a choice by the developer not to support access to the database by older versions of the software.

I suggest you send him a strong e-mail outlining your displeasure, I shall.

So, it seems, Wikicamps does not cost $7 rather it costs around $300 every two years because one is forced to buy new hardware.

support@wikicamps.com.au

Oka374 · Veteran Member

I sent them an email

"So why has wikicamps alienated the majority of its users by changing
the app so it will only run on virtually brand new equipment.
I have no intention of buying new equipment (pensioners aren't flush
with cash you know) so I can just run one app even if it is the one I
used to use the most. My phone is only two years old and my tablet
five years old and both work perfectly for everything else. Good move
wikicamps and goodbye! "

and this was the reply.

"Hi Peter

WikiCamps requires Android 5.0 minimum on Android devices and iOS 10.3 minimum on iOS devices.
Android 5.0 was released back in 2014 (5 years ago) and iOS 10 was released in 2016 and runs on devices right back as far as iPhone 5 (released in 2012).
These limitations are due to some of the new features weve added to the latest version of WikiCamps, including the improved offline maps.

Kind regards

Russell
WikiCamps "

An my further reply

So all those thousands of users that have older phones which still function perfectly on the highest Android version 4 and whose companies/providers have not yet approved 5 for download and use are now left with an unusable app that we relied on during our travels. Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot! you have shot your app out of contention ! bloody stupid!!

You aren't going to provide all those thousands of users, many of whom like me are pensioners on a limited income and have supported YOUR app since its inception so goodbye to you sir and we'll now watch wikicamps crash and burn! "

I'm not expecting anything from them but as I said in my email the ability to provide up to date feedback and read the same is invaluable when travelling so it will be their loss as we all move onto something else.
Earlier versions don't update past April this year and we can't provide any feedback now either.