Air Bags

howpar · Member

Air Bags

blaze · Guru

I would look at some progressive springs, air bags may help. My son had a lowered bmw and with a bit of luggage for 2 people, wore a set of tyre between Melbourne and perth. down to the wire
cheers
blaze

iana · Guru

Ball weights a little high. Move some of the weight in the caravan back to over the wheels.

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Hi Alex,
I agree with both blaze & Iana. Nominally ball mass is about 10% of the ATM - my Jayco Discovery, is a bit less.

Air bags may help BUT read the posts in this area (General) & the Techies. I did NOT follow the manufacturer's instructions on my Patrol as I did not want to break it with "logs in the suspension" - the maximum pressure I added to mine was 25-27psi (they are rated to 65!!!). Air bags will not remove weight which is your problem, they can only lift the rear.

Is there a water tank in front of the axle? If so you need all the water that your van can carry? And do you rotate your tyres every 10,000kms? This is mandatory on 4WDs & I would have thought the same would apply to AWDs.

And I know all about trade ins - they don't want them! My Patrol is worth $5,000 so I found out last week.

kesa32 · Senior Member

Over on the Ford forums airbags have been used with success , also heavier coils have worked well too to stop the sag as mentioned by blaze
Either way you should be much better off for towing

Also importantly you need to rotate your tyres , especially on your awd as you'll cause major damage to your driveline having different wear rates on tyres , hopefully your aware of that

Cheers

Jaahn · Guru

Hi howpar smile

You have a problem but may not be solving it in the right place. It the tires are scrubbing out on the inside the wheels are toeing out excessively with the load on them or indeed may be normally toed out excessively. Those vehicles have weaknesses in their suspension design. I would get a suspension specialist to look at it , loaded and unloaded and check the toe-in in each case. Even if the manufacturer does not give any adjustment the mounting can always be 'adjusted' to fix it. Many independent rear suspension vehicles suffer from this problem of scrubbing out the rear tires with a load. Poor design IMHO !!

Possibly the Ford forums will have some discussion on the cure. You are not the first one. hmm

Good luck Jaahn

Kiwoz · Veteran Member

Jaahn, I see you referring to toe-out being the cause of the OP's tyre wear issue. Generally with independent rear suspension the excessive tyre wear is caused by the crazy camber when the suspension almost bottoms out. This causes heaps of sideways scrubbing and wrecks tyres very quickly.

Jaahn · Guru

Kiwoz wrote:
Jaahn, I see you referring to toe-out being the cause of the OP's tyre wear issue. Generally with independent rear suspension the excessive tyre wear is caused by the crazy camber when the suspension almost bottoms out. This causes heaps of sideways scrubbing and wrecks tyres very quickly.

Hi Kiwoz smile

What you say is the common idea. But I say you might find it is only the minor cause of the problem. The major cause is what I said IMHO. Easy to check really, you can load up and get the tape measure on the tires and see what it says front and back measurment between the rear wheels. My money is on lots of toe-out. smile

The excessive wear is made worse if the camber is excessive and the edge is taking all the load. But excessive toe-in or toe-out will cause edge wear on the tread even if it is sitting up properly. But if people do not want to listen to a good idea they can wear out their tires believing a myth instead. aww I just put it out there from experience.

I can say that the same excessive wear occures on caravan tires sometimes, which is talked about here now and again. Same answer check and adjust the toe on the problem wheel/axle, not usually any trouble with camber there. Just badly made axles. disbelief

Jaahn

-- Edited by Jaahn on Monday 30th of September 2019 03:31:17 PM

Kiwoz · Veteran Member

Jaahn, I'm not sure where you're coming from here as you've wandered from talking tow vehicle issues into the towed vehicle problems, chalk and cheese comparison. There are not many vans, if any, with the multi link suspension used in motor vehicles and the alignment problems referred to in your van alignment problems are more about shonky workmanship.
Hopefully the OP can keeep us informed on alignment issues.

Jaahn · Guru

Kiwoz wrote:
Jaahn, I'm not sure where you're coming from here as you've wandered from talking tow vehicle issues into the towed vehicle problems, chalk and cheese comparison. There are not many vans, if any, with the multi link suspension used in motor vehicles and the alignment problems referred to in your van alignment problems are more about shonky workmanship.
Hopefully the OP can keeep us informed on alignment issues.

OK Kiwoz smile

I will spell it out for you. Major excessive tire wear particularly on one edge is almost always caused by too much toe on a pair of wheels,or on a single wheel in a set. Is that clear enough.

Running a high camber will cause more edge wear but not excessive wear if the toe is correct. My opinion from experience and knowledge as a mechanic. hmm The principle applies to any wheel, weather on an independent suspension or a beam axle. Independent suspensions change toe when loaded and should be adjusted for the most used load.

Jaahn

-- Edited by Jaahn on Tuesday 1st of October 2019 09:43:18 AM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Tmk toe in on bumps assists in better tracking . Can only go so far . On cars camber wears on braking . As the contact patch is different in straight ahead . Ok on corners. Its all to do with suspension travel and alignment. Sadly most wheel alignment is done with no weight!! Firmer springs and shocks or air bag assist helps big time . Low profile tyres dont help . Manufacturers build vehicle to drive nice around the block on test drives !!

Dick0 · Guru

Hi Alex,

I have the 2013 (SZ) version of your territory.

Have fitted air bags, link below for the bags I fitted. Obtained through EBAY.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axCZesvvByI

I tow 2.5T fully laden (ATM). Have cargo barrier and carry about 150kg in rear of vehicle.

Also, have WDH with sway control...not electronic.

Inflate bags to 30-35psi which compensates rear vehicle sag. WDH evens tug/den weight.

Tows like a dream. No excessive tyre wear...Front tyres 40psi, rear tyres 45psi and Van tyres 40psi x 4. Add 5psi each tyre when hot.

Cruise speed 90-95km on cruise control 6th gear most times. Fuel averages at 16-16.5 litres per 100km.

Hope this helps.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Spray some tyre shine on springs , bag . To help fit through springs. Silicon
Makes it easy .

howpar · Member

Thank you all for your advise
Regards
Alex

Greg 1 · Guru

A couple of things to check with your Territory. The Falcons and Territory's have some issues with both the diff mount bushes and the trailing arm bushes. I own a Falcon Turbo and have had to replace the bushes in mine. One of the signs of this occurring is the tyres cutting out the inside edge as the worn trailing arm bushes cause excessive toe out. There is also a tendency to move into a toe out condition when the suspension is under compression although the Ford is much better at controlling this than Commodores prior to the VE. I would be getting a suspension specialist to check whether you need to replace the bushes before doing anything else.

howpar · Member

Thank you Greg, others have also indicated to get the suspension checked which I will do before going any further
Regards
Alex