The Truth about GVM and GCM upgrades...the current situation

River Rat · Member

RE: The Truth about GVM and GCM upgrades...the current situation

travelyounger · Guru

Pretty sure you used the imaginary word in this post very clearly written and god forbid new van is 3.500 gvm as I have mentioned previously the gcm stands at 7.100 as long as axle weights and car and van weights are not exceeded.Just because it has a gvm of 3.6 and a gcm 7.1 and gvm on trailer of 3.500 does not mean it will be those figures they are maximum figures so stop going off track all the time with other setups as you are only using figures that is in your head not the actual figures which as I said before can only be done at the weighbridge and that will be soon then the so called facts will be facts and you will be the first to know

Cheers

yobarr · Guru

travelyounger wrote:
Pretty sure you used the imaginary word in this post very clearly written and god forbid new van is 3.500 gvm as I have mentioned previously the gcm stands at 7.100 as long as axle weights and car and van weights are not exceeded.Just because it has a gvm of 3.6 and a gcm 7.1 and gvm on trailer of 3.500 does not mean it will be those figures they are maximum figures so stop going off track all the time with other setups as you are only using figures that is in your head not the actual figures which as I said before can only be done at the weighbridge and that will be soon then the so called facts will be facts and you will be the first to know
Cheers

Good luck with your new van,but I will iterate that,with 10% towball weight,your chances of achieving actual legal weight on wheels of more than 6590kg are zero,zilch,zip,nil,nada.And that figure can be achieved only with exact loadings on all axles,something that is very difficult to achieve,given that every time you move your van,those weights will change due to changes in the amount of water in each of your water tanks.Getting weight onto your front axle will be the stumbling point,and it cannot be solved with a WDH, which creates its own issues.However,Ido wish you well in your endeavours,and I look forward to hearing the results of your weighbridge exercise. Cheers

travelyounger · Guru

Yes I agree on what your saying I will weigh with a wdh and then without and see the difference not quite shaw on ball weight but would be under 300 loaded and was 160 unloaded

Cheers

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Even check some motorhome weight just under 4500. Doesnt take much to be over weight ? Extra batteries etc? Once we would use a bigger vehicle like Patrol etc . Actually a truck is not a bad option !

Whenarewethere · Guru

We only have a car & chuck everything in the front to sleep in the back at night. It never looks like we have that much in the car but we were over our 500kg payload.

A second spare wheel 30kg, upgrading tyres 6 X 3kg, phone & camera cables & other items under 1kg added up to 24kg.

Frightening how insidious payload is eaten up, even more so by all the "invisible" items like driver's floor mat, windscreen sun screens, fire extinguisher, jumper leads, dustpan & brush or brush only in our case.

PeterInSa · Guru

yobarr re (.Getting weight onto your front axle will be the stumbling point,and it cannot be solved with a WDH,)

Please correct my interpretation of Vehicle with WDH + Van weights

Drive vehicle onto the Weigh scale, Front wheels only, weight is front axle load including WDH weight Transfer eg 1500Kg
Drive vehicle fully onto Weigh scale Rear axle load ( less weight transfer to front wheels)= Weigh scale 3500KG less Front Axle load 1500Kg ie 2000Kg, GVM = 3500Kg
Drive Caravan onto Weigh Scale with vehicle, Weigh Scale reads 6500Kg = GCM, GTM of caravan is 6500-3500 ie 3000Kg.

Peter

yobarr · Guru

PeterInSa wrote:
yobarr re (.Getting weight onto your front axle will be the stumbling point,and it cannot be solved with a WDH,)
Please correct my interpretation of Vehicle with WDH + Van weights
Drive vehicle onto the Weigh scale, Front wheels only, weight is front axle load including WDH weight Transfer eg 1500Kg
Drive vehicle fully onto Weigh scale Rear axle load ( less weight transfer to front wheels)= Weigh scale 3500KG less Front Axle load 1500Kg ie 2000Kg, GVM = 3500Kg
Drive Caravan onto Weigh Scale with vehicle, Weigh Scale reads 6500Kg = GCM, GTM of caravan is 6500-3500 ie 3000Kg.
Peter

Hi Peter...You have understood everything perfectly! Well done. Is this an actual vehicle,or just your effort to understand weights? Assuming that the WDH remained tensioned throughout the whole exercise,and that you had 10% towball weight,your van would have an ATM,or total weight on wheels and towball (or jockey wheel) of 3300kg (+/-). With 3000kg GTM behind a 3500kg GVM car,your car is nearly 17% heavier than the van it is towing,and super-safe.Perfect! If this really is your set up,you should be congratulated for being so responsible.Cheers.

P.S The reason for the "stumbling point" comment is that if you have an ATM of 3500kg,and then attach the van to the car,with the generally accepted,and responsible,10% towball weight you would have 350kg on the towball,and GTM of 3150kg.All is good,UNTIL you tension your WDH,which will then transfer some weight from your cars rear axle to the car's front axle,BUT it will also transfer weight to your van's axle group.Because a WDH does NOT change ball weight,instantly your van is over its 3500kg ATM because the GTM has increased while the ball weight has remained the same.This becomes an issue only if you are running right on your 3500kg ATM limit (or indeed,any ATM limit) but is a common mistake made by those with little understanding.I hope that this helps, but please post again if you would like clarification of anything.Cheers (Again!)

-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 5th of October 2019 07:51:30 AM

PeterInSa · Guru

Thanks yobarr, yes example figures only, just wanted to get the concept right, from memory our van has an ATM 2990Kg and GCM Tug and Van 6400Kg.

yobarr · Guru

PeterInSa wrote:
Thanks yobarr, yes example figures only, just wanted to get the concept right, from memory our van has an ATM 2990Kg and GCM Tug and Van 6400Kg.

Hi Peter...thats a big GCM with only 2700kg GTM? This means that you are running at 3700kg GVM,and are possibly overloaded on your rear axle.What car are you towing with? I wont hazard a guess,for fear of upsetting our more sensitive souls,but I would be VERY interested to learn about your car! Cheers

PeterInSa · Guru

yobarr thats not my GVM and as I said figures were from memory.

yobarr · Guru

PeterInSa wrote:
yobarr thats not my GVM and as I said figures were from memory.

All good Peter...seems that you have it all under control! What is your car? Safe and happy travels.Cheers

Bill B · Guru

Yobarr as an authority on weights you should know GVM, ATM & GCM are ratings not actual weights.

Baz421 · Guru

Agress Bill B. I gave up on this post as some have confused the issue so badly they are leading people astray, and maybe contributing, however unwittingly and maybe the bset intentions to an accident.

yobarr · Guru

Bill B wrote:
Yobarr as an authority on weights you should know GVM, ATM & GCM are ratings not actual weights.

Thank you Bill,for this very helpful comment. In an effort to avoid further confusing those members who already are well in the wilderness regarding weights,I always try to keep things as simple as possible.By using these terms in their commonly recognised form,I hope that I am helping people better understand weights. Whilst the terms technically are not correct,I believe that this is the best way to relay my message.For those of you with anything more than a basic understanding,surely it matters little if the terminology is slightly astray,provided the message is easier to understand,and it makes life easier for others,who may want to learn? Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 5th of October 2019 06:46:38 PM

Bill B · Guru

Sorry but I disagree that it simplifies matters. You are muddying the waters further by using the the terms incorrectly. If people are serious about understanding their weights the correct terminology needs to be understood and used.

-- Edited by Bill B on Saturday 5th of October 2019 07:00:34 PM

Iva Biggen · Senior Member

Bill B wrote:
Sorry but I disagree that it simplifies matters. You are muddying the waters further by using the the terms incorrectly. If people are serious about understanding their weights the correct terminology needs to be understood and used.

-- Edited by Bill B on Saturday 5th of October 2019 07:00:34 PM

Yes Bill B you are correct,

It is his modus operandi.

We notice that also he seems to need to know what make of vehicle each person is driving even guessing makes and model from some avatars at times. Under the disguise of helping, it is his roundabout way of informing all of us that the only vehicle for towing is his 79 Toyota.

Not all who contribute are working on maximum figures or even intend to, but his assumptions are always in the negative.

No qualifications and worse still, no respect.

It would be good if he just went away as almost every topic he has entered has been dragged from what may have been an informative contribution to his one sided view. Any wonder he got the flick from another forum.

Baz421 · Guru

Iva Biggen wrote:
Bill B wrote:
Sorry but I disagree that it simplifies matters. You are muddying the waters further by using the the terms incorrectly. If people are serious about understanding their weights the correct terminology needs to be understood and used.

-- Edited by Bill B on Saturday 5th of October 2019 07:00:34 PM
Yes Bill B you are correct,
It is his modus operandi.
We notice that also he seems to need to know what make of vehicle each person is driving even guessing makes and model from some avatars at times. Under the disguise of helping, it is his roundabout way of informing all of us that the only vehicle for towing is his 79 Toyota.
Not all who contribute are working on maximum figures or even intend to, but his assumptions are always in the negative.
No qualifications and worse still, no respect.
It would be good if he just went away as almost every topic he has entered has been dragged from what may have been an informative contribution to his one sided view. Any wonder he got the flick from another forum.

Agree guys. Here's a quote in part from yobarr earlier in this thread,,,

One of the biggest problems we have when trying to explain weights is that often we are dealing with members of the "head in the sand" brigade.....they just do not want to know.To those people,ignorance is bliss,

end quote.,

It would be good if he would practice what he preaches, ie use the correct terminology and NOT use his own personal method of simplifying things.

I used to write Technical and Information Bulletins at Motor Vehicle Registry vehicle standards, including road trains and imported vehicles, so that the public could understand the legislation, BUT you MUST use correct terminology, not what you personally think others can understand.

I hope others can sort the wheat from the chaff.

My 2 cents worth (again)

Cheers Baz

PetenSue · Veteran Member

Just my opinion. You can run this man down all you want. Thats your business not mine. Qualifications or not his reasoning on weights are 100% right. If you dont believe what he says take your pleasure machine, and your calculator to a weigh bridge and check for your self. Honestly a few people on here should check their own attitudes. I might only be a dumbarse newbie here but I also didnt come down in the last shower !!! Regards Pete.

Rob Driver · Guru

PetenSue wrote:
Just my opinion. You can run this man down all you want. Thats your business not mine. Qualifications or not his reasoning on weights are 100% right. If you dont believe what he says take your pleasure machine, and your calculator to a weigh bridge and check for your self. Honestly a few people on here should check their own attitudes. I might only be a dumbarse newbie here but I also didnt come down in the last shower !!! Regards Pete.

Lets hope then that you drive a 79 series Toyota ute.

Lets hope that when and if you post a new topic that you are quite happy to have it dragged into a sh** fight with reference to how all vehicles except one will be illegal when towing.

Lets hope that when you post he automatically assumes that you will be overloaded regardless of your actual situation.

Lets hope when and if you present a topic for discussion and information for everyone, as is this topic, then it is ridiculed to the point of shaming the supplier in the topic if only to support his backing of another company which he uses.

Lets hope he can substantiate his claims in your topic as he sure can not do it in anyone elses and lets hope with your support he may actually reveal the secret compliance plate and revised registration papers. After all, others have openly posted pics with details outlining actual LEGAL modifications to their vehicles

Lets hope that any topic you start is denied constructive discussion because it eventually has to be locked by admin due to his nonsense.

It is generally not the attitude of contributors on here to be rude but his relentless attacks only bring out the worst in people.

None of us come down in the last shower mate.

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Tuesday 8th of October 2019 08:38:31 AM

Rob Driver · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
I hoped when I posted the link with direct information from Lovells then it may help many members on this page sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak.
With that hope I thought there may be some constructive conversations and comments particularly noting that the article in the link is current and a representative from Lovells is answering direct questions in the comments feed within the page.
The fact that Lovells are answering questions directly was, as I hoped, may have been an opportunity for anyone to actually talk to them about their personal towing or weight situation.
Well it is obvious that some did not bother to read the questions and answers as there is a bit more detail included on a QA basis.

The problem with dismissing all other vehicles other than a single model ute is that all the other makes and models are being grouped into a category as being not suitable, at least by one of our members.

Worse than that, any LEGAL modification is also being rejected as still being unsuitable or still dangerous.
An approved GVM upgrade actually supports the rantings we have all endured of the tow vehicle needing to be heavier than the caravan.
How simple is that to achieve when the extra load carried in the vehicle achieves this result LEGALLY.

The very member has, by his own admission, had his ute upgraded but has repeatedly denigrated anyone who has had used an approved manufacturer to have a GVM or GCM upgrade carried out.
Repeatedly, other members on here have posted pics of compliance plates and registration certificates as well as links to information from approved secondary manufacturers only to be openly criticised.

I wonder why, if this model ute is so suitable then why did he have his own vehicle modified and more to the point, show us your new compliance plate and state rego certificate stating the approved modification.

By his bombastic contribution each and every time someone asks a question on vehicle weights it has managed to drag each topic to a point when no one wants to ask a question on this subject on this forum for fear of personal criticism and the topic then slips into oblivion.
It is a shame that the majority of members cant discuss weights in a rational form on here rather than have their topic railroaded to the point of no return.

If, in fact this guy is a mechanical or transport engineer then I might suggest that he take up his argument with both vehicle ORIGINAL MANUFACTURERS and with the APPROVED SECONDARY MANUFACTURERS than to put all his energy into criticising everyone who does not own a 79 series Toyota.
This may be for him at least a better pass (not past) time as he suggested to me in an above post.
Regards
Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Saturday 21st of September 2019 05:09:48 PM

For PetenSue

From my original post there are 20 posts to this second post of mine.

I posted this second post in the vain hope that it might get back on track. I was wrong.

Of the 20 posts eight of them were from Yobar with his usual rants.. Have a close read of the topic up to my second post and you may then see how he derails any topic to suit himself. I might add that his rantings and bombastic attitude only gets worse from that post on.

We have heard it over and over and this this topic was about a secondary manufacturer updating information on LEGAL updates and nothing whatsoever to do with his opinion on how this vehicle wont do this or that.

Really, I wonder why anyone even bothers to contribute.

Regards

Rob

yobarr · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
For PetenSue
From my original post there are 20 posts to this second post of mine.I posted this second post in the vain hope that it might get back on track. I was wrong.Of the 20 posts eight of them were from Yobar with his usual rants.. Have a close read of the topic up to my second post and you may then see how he derails any topic to suit himself. I might add that his rantings and bombastic attitude only gets worse from that post on. We have heard it over and over and this this topic was about a secondary manufacturer updating information on LEGAL updates and nothing whatsoever to do with his opinion on how this vehicle wont do this or that.Really, I wonder why anyone even bothers to contribute.Regards.Rob

Hi Rob....Initially I had decided not to respond to,and thus dignify,your seemingly nonsensical and convoluted postings,but in order to maintain truth and honesty on the forum,I simply will ask you to refer to my post,in this thread,made at 10.16am on September 21,where I asked that you point out where any of my comments is demonstrably silly. Facts may well confuse you,but they always will remain just that.Facts.Unless you can prove me wrong on any of the information I post (facts) you might like to select an alternative target for your vitriol,or maybe find a more productive pass time? Have a great day.Cheers.

Rob Driver · Guru

Yobar,

You persistently drag every topic on weights into a statement on how good you are and what fools the rest of us on here are with all our heads stuck in the sand.

You dont seem to see that no matter what the original topic is about, you drag the subject matter back to suit your own argument.

You have ruined any hope of any real discussion in this topic because of your hate for Lovells yet you cant substantiate any claims you made except to tell all of us that you are right and all of us are wrong.

We would need more than fingers and toes to count how many times you have made rude a derogatory comments to other members.
The moment someone posts anything about weights you automatically assume that they are towing heavy and that their choice of vehicle is wrong.

The Jeep topic is another fine example of your piece of work in not accepting others views.

Myself and many others have a transport background and we all certainly do not have to be rude. We also do not just assume that everyone is overweight because they dont own a vehicle of your choice and have had it modified by a company which apparently does not issue upgrade certificates.

I did not know that you got the flick from another forum....but I can certainly see why that might happen.

This forum would be a better place if you just went away.

No more comment from me to Yobar but if I ask that if I start another topic that you refrain from posting.

No one wants three pages of arguing.

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Tuesday 8th of October 2019 11:45:06 AM

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Tuesday 8th of October 2019 12:08:15 PM

Iva Biggen · Senior Member

Got to agree with Rob and others.

This bloke has a social problem.

I am surprised this has gone this far. He likes to see topics locked.

Why dont you just go away Yobarr, you have made your point and you have, once again, destroyed another forum topic.

Find another forum if they will have you.

Rob Driver · Guru

Thank Ivan

Regards

Rob

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

This thread went off the rails when it became personal.
A quick check will easily demonstrate who does that.
Cheers,
Peter

Webmaster · Guru

I would just like to remind everyone to ensure that your posts are respectful towards other members even if you disagree with what has been posted. We would like our forum to be a positive place for people to discuss issues. We do not allow personal insults.
I would also like to remind members that, although forum discussions may help to get different perspectives about certain technical issues, it is always best to consult a qualified professional.
Thanks everyone.