p

Baz421 wrote:

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bentaxlebabe wrote:

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As many others have noticed on this, and some other forums there has been many a heated discussion on the above subject.

Here is a link that is very informative with ONE of the TWO Authorised Second Manufacturers providing answers to many questions on vehicle modifications.

I will inform all readers that it is a Facebook link so you will need to at least have the ability to access Facebook.

If you wont subscribe to Facebook but need to view and read the posts then I suggest you may ask any of your children or grandchildren to search the page and let you read it.

https://www.facebook.com/676158852491141/posts/2400064693433873/

Happy and informative reading.

Regards

Rob

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 Good post Rob,,, some on here will now be educated,,, I hope you have ducked your head,, I will,,lol

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 Nothing to "duck your head" about.All that has happened is that SA has reverted to the rules that were in place until a year ago. In the vast majority of GVM upgrades......almost 100%.....the towing capability of the car remains exactly the same as it was prior to the GVM upgrade.What happens is that the cars GVM is increased,meaning that there now is a heavier vehicle towing the van.How can that be bad? What people do not understand is that,because it is impossible on most cars,with a van attached,to reach maximum load carrying capacity on the cars front axle,there is no chance of actually reaching the upgraded GVM.As I said earlier,at least,with the new GVM,there now is a good chance that the car will be heavier than the van ......and that is a critical factor when towing. Unfortunately,with many GVM upgrades,the carrying capacity of the rear axle still is the limiting factor,even when that axle has been marginally uprated.But surely anything is better than nothing if it helps to make the whole outfit safer? Cheers

Olive Oil wrote:

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If people woke up to the fact that they should be buying smaller lighter caravans like our parents used to use for their travels after they retired, they wouldn't have to worry about all this technical stuff. If you want to take everything but the kitchen sink with you so be it, but don't whinge about it or buy a truck.

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 We are no longer in the 60's.... so no matter what  vehicle you tow with these days....  you do have to be on top of all the "technical stuf"...  GVM, GCM, ATM, GTM, Axle ratings etc etc.

Baz421 wrote:

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bentaxlebabe wrote:

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As many others have noticed on this, and some other forums there has been many a heated discussion on the above subject.

Here is a link that is very informative with ONE of the TWO Authorised Second Manufacturers providing answers to many questions on vehicle modifications.

I will inform all readers that it is a Facebook link so you will need to at least have the ability to access Facebook.

If you wont subscribe to Facebook but need to view and read the posts then I suggest you may ask any of your children or grandchildren to search the page and let you read it.

https://www.facebook.com/676158852491141/posts/2400064693433873/

Happy and informative reading.

Regards

Rob

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 Good post Rob,,, some on here will now be educated,,, I hope you have ducked your head,, I will,,lol

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 Thanks Baz,

I am ducking head as I type mate.

It appears that the people who dont want to be educated are on here even if only to promote to all others, the use of one model of vehicle by stealth and to justify his purchase.

I would imagine the quiet majority do realise how silly are some comments appear, particularly when it seems that these comments are on an auto replay mode.  

Regards

Rob

I'm in the process of having my GVM revised.... up to the sum of axle ratings..... +300kg...... I couldn't go with the standard suspension offerings as I didn't want a lift along with it (garage clearance issues).... I've had the suspension fitted for a few years now and knew it could handle the extra weight... so thought I'd give it a go. Probally will cost about $550 plus the Goverment fees. I tend not to use a WDH.... so I can only really use about 150kg of the upgraded rating.... as weight comes off the front axle when you hook up of course.... and the rear axle rating is the limiting factor....  but thats all I need to be legal.

A simple  approval like mine does have some limiting factors....  assuming you don't want to go to the added cost of brake tests etc....  so my unbraked towing capacity is reduced from 750kg by the extra I am over from my standard GVM....  sorta makes sense....  

-- Edited by Noelpolar on Saturday 21st of September 2019 11:13:49 AM

yobarr wrote:

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Noelpolar wrote:

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Olive Oil wrote:

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If people woke up to the fact that they should be buying smaller lighter caravans like our parents used to use for their travels after they retired, they wouldn't have to worry about all this technical stuff. If you want to take everything but the kitchen sink with you so be it, but don't whinge about it or buy a truck.

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 We are no longer in the 60's.... so no matter what  vehicle you tow with these days....  you do have to be on top of all the "technical stuf"...  GVM, GCM, ATM, GTM, Axle ratings etc etc.

-- Edited by Noelpolar on Friday 20th of September 2019 11:09:16 PM

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 Well said Noel.One of the biggest problems we have when trying to explain weights is that often we are dealing with members of the "head in the sand" brigade.....they just do not want to know.To those people,ignorance is bliss,until they have an accident,and their claim is denied because they were overloaded.Then it becomes everybody's fault but their own.We can but try.Cheers

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 Totally agree.

Max. Towing capacity of our Navara 2800kg.

Max. Ball weight 280kg.

Our caravan 1600kg fully loaded.

Our caravan ball weight when fully loaded 160kg.

No fridges or anything heavy in the tub of our vehicle.

Simple really.

We're not one of the "head in sand brigade". 

River Rat wrote:

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yobarr wrote:

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 Nothing to "duck your head" about.All that has happened is that SA has reverted to the rules that were in place until a year ago. In the vast majority of GVM upgrades......almost 100%.....the towing capability of the car remains exactly the same as it was prior to the GVM upgrade.What happens is that the cars GVM is increased,meaning that there now is a heavier vehicle towing the van.How can that be bad? What people do not understand is that,because it is impossible on most cars,with a van attached,to reach maximum load carrying capacity on the cars front axle,there is no chance of actually reaching the upgraded GVM.As I said earlier,at least,with the new GVM,there now is a good chance that the car will be heavier than the van ......and that is a critical factor when towing. Unfortunately,with many GVM upgrades,the carrying capacity of the rear axle still is the limiting factor,even when that axle has been marginally uprated.But surely anything is better than nothing if it helps to make the whole outfit safer? Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 20th of September 2019 07:11:36 PM

Lovells are currently able to undertake GVM and GCM upgrades in SA. for certain vehicles  The requirements for GCM upgrades are spelled out in the document 'South Australian Gross Combination Mass Re-rating Requirements' issued by the Vehicle Standards Branch of DPTI in August 2019.  Any such upgrade is required to be certified by a SA based engineer.  When the certificate has been provided to Vehicle Standards the vehicle must be brought in for inspection, and at the conclusion a Certificate of Exemption for the vehicle is issued under Section 163AA of the Road Traffic Act.In the case of a Ford Ranger PX2 the GVM can be upgraded to 3500 and the GCM to 7000 (rear axle rating is upgraded to 2020).  Having said that I agree with Yobarr that would be difficult to get to 3500 in a towing situation, close but no cigar .  Absolutely no chance of achieving 7000 as a loaded combination as the maximum towing capacity doesn't change, although if one was mad enough....... with a dog trailer....... 

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                          "....maximum towing capacity doesn't change......" 

Good post,which shows that you have a good understanding of weights.Using your 3500kg GVM upgrade figures,the Ranger would have a 1480kg front axle rating.(3500kg minus 2020kg rear axle).When a 350kg towball weight is applied,there will be around 130kg removed from the front axle and transferred to the rear axle of the car.The car would then have maximum total weight on wheels of  3370kg (3500kg minus 130kg).To this we add the GTM (weight on trailer wheels) of 3150kg (3500kg minus 350kg towball) to arrive at total weight on wheels of 6520kg......light years away from the 7000kg GCM figure.As you suggest,a DOG trailer will get you pretty close to the 7000kg GCM,missing out only by the towball weight of,say,15kg???? Cheers

Olive Oil wrote:

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   We're not one of the "head in sand brigade". 

 Good to see,D.D and O.O,but unfortunately you and I,along with several others,are in the minority.As Desiderata says,"Speak your truth quietly and clearly,but listen to others,even the dull and ignorant.They too have their story."                                          

                  In the face of adversity,all we can do is battle on! Have a great day.Cheers

blaze wrote:

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yobarr wrote:

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Olive Oil wrote:

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   We're not one of the "head in sand brigade". 

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 Good to see,D.D and O.O,but unfortunately you and I,along with several others,are in the minority.As Desiderata says,"Speak your truth quietly and clearly,but listen to others,even the dull and ignorant.They too have their story."                                          

                  In the face of adversity,all we can do is battle on! Have a great day.Cheers

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 trouble is yobarr, you do not speak quietly, don't let others have their say, as you are the only one with the FACTS as you so often tell us.cheers.blaze

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 Robert,I challenge you to inform me how I "......don't let others have their say......." as all I have ever done is try to help.When my explanations of weights are openly challenged by those with little understanding and even less interest in learning,I always will attempt to show these members why they are mistaken.Their misguided comments on weights don't bother me too much,but I am more concerned that the rubbish they write may negatively impact other,perhaps new,members who have absolutely no idea of how weights work,and may indeed heed the "advice" given. A good example of this was the recent thread about a DMax with a GVM of 3600kg towing a 3500kg van,and the car having a claimed ".all legal..." GCM of 7100kg.......can't be done. After several days of me trying to make others understand that this is impossible,and copping all sorts of abuse from the OP,another forum member contacted Lovells,who had originally done this imaginary upgrade,and I was proven right.My manner may ruffle the feathers of a few sensitive souls,but with weights there is nothing in between.....something is either right or it is wrong.Period.Have a great day,and if you would like help with your weights,please let me know! Cheers

Chris, leave them all to it mate, methinks you are in a no win situation  you might as well bash your head against a rock. I have always found your posts informative and helpful but you haven't a hope in hell of convincing the nay sayers on this topic. Pour yourself a scotch, sit back and let them get on with it.

I hoped when I posted the link with direct information from Lovells then it may help many members on this page sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak.
With that hope I thought there may be some constructive conversations and comments particularly noting that the article in the link is current and a representative from Lovells is answering direct questions in the comments feed within the page.
The fact that Lovells are answering questions directly was, as I hoped, may have been an opportunity for anyone to actually talk to them about their personal towing or weight situation.
Well it is obvious that some did not bother to read the questions and answers as there is a bit more detail included on a QA basis.

The problem with dismissing all other vehicles other than a single model ute is that all the other makes and models are being grouped into a category as being not suitable, at least by one of our members.

Worse than that, any LEGAL modification is also being rejected as still being unsuitable or still dangerous.
An approved GVM upgrade actually supports the rantings we have all endured of the tow vehicle needing to be heavier than the caravan.
How simple is that to achieve when the extra load carried in the vehicle achieves this result LEGALLY.

The very member has, by his own admission, had his ute upgraded but has repeatedly denigrated anyone who has had used an approved manufacturer to have a GVM or GCM upgrade carried out.
Repeatedly, other members on here have posted pics of compliance plates and registration certificates as well as links to information from approved secondary manufacturers only to be openly criticised.

I wonder why, if this model ute is so suitable then why did he have his own vehicle modified and more to the point, show us your new compliance plate and state rego certificate stating the approved modification.

By his bombastic contribution each and every time someone asks a question on vehicle weights it has managed to drag each topic to a point when no one wants to ask a question on this subject on this forum for fear of personal criticism and the topic then slips into oblivion.
It is a shame that the majority of members cant discuss weights in a rational form on here rather than have their topic railroaded to the point of no return.

If, in fact this guy is a mechanical or transport engineer then I might suggest that he take up his argument with both vehicle ORIGINAL MANUFACTURERS and with the APPROVED SECONDARY MANUFACTURERS than to put all his energy into criticising everyone who does not own a 79 series Toyota.
This may be for him at least a better pass (not past) time as he suggested to me in an above post.

Regards

Rob

bentaxlebabe wrote:

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I hoped when I posted the link with direct information from Lovells then it may help many members on this page sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak.
With that hope I thought there may be some constructive conversations and comments particularly noting that the article in the link is current and a representative from Lovells is answering direct questions in the comments feed within the page.
The fact that Lovells are answering questions directly was, as I hoped, may have been an opportunity for anyone to actually talk to them about their personal towing or weight situation.
Well it is obvious that some did not bother to read the questions and answers as there is a bit more detail included on a QA basis.

There is nothing on there that hasn't been common knowledge for some time for those who take an interest.South Australia has simply gone back to the rules that were in place until about a year ago.

The problem with dismissing all other vehicles other than a single model ute is that all the other makes and models are being grouped into a category as being not suitable, at least by one of our members.

Nobody is  "...dismissing all other vehicles... but I simply point out where people have possibly been misinformed,or are simply ignorant of capacities and the rules.

Worse than that, any LEGAL modification is also being rejected as still being unsuitable or still dangerous.
An approved GVM upgrade actually supports the rantings we have all endured of the tow vehicle needing to be heavier than the caravan.
How simple is that to achieve when the extra load carried in the vehicle achieves this result LEGALLY.

What are you on about? It is abundantly clear that you dont actually read my posts,but simply look at them.       My post at 6.52pm on September 20th last says exactly what you are waffling on about.

The very member has, by his own admission, had his ute upgraded but has repeatedly denigrated anyone who has had used an approved manufacturer to have a GVM or GCM upgrade carried out.
Repeatedly, other members on here have posted pics of compliance plates and registration certificates as well as links to information from approved secondary manufacturers only to be openly criticised.

Compliance plates are of little use if people do not understand weights,as evidenced by the member who was adamant that their  DMax had a 7100kg GCM upgrade,and could therefore tow 3500kg GTM.....yes,GTM. These are the sorts of people I try to help,hopefully before an uninsured crash causes them unbelievable financial hardship, and possibly personal injury.It was only after  another member contacted Lovells,who had done an upgrade on the DMax,that we could make the owner understand that not only could they not get with a country mile of the supposed 7100kg GCM,the actual GCM limit was only 7000kg and the maximum possible weight on wheels was 6590kg.Do you believe that this is a bad thing to do?

I wonder why, if this model ute is so suitable then why did he have his own vehicle modified and more to the point, show us your new compliance plate and state rego certificate stating the approved modification.

Cant help you with photo of registration certificate,or of the compliance plate,as a friend did it for me in his backyard.Being an erudite (?) induvidual,you obviously are unaware that my vehicle had no increase in the capacity of either axle,but the new GVM simply takes advantage of the high axle ratings by adding together their respective capacities.

By his bombastic contribution each and every time someone asks a question on vehicle weights it has managed to drag each topic to a point when no one wants to ask a question on this subject on this forum for fear of personal criticism and the topic then slips into oblivion.

Surely,if you ask a question about something you have absolutely NO understanding of,you should be ready to be given an answer you do not like? Who knows,it may well save your life? Surely better to be angry than dead?

It is a shame that the majority of members cant discuss weights in a rational form on here rather than have their topic railroaded to the point of no return.

What are you on about? Always I point out any possible problems that may be faced,and offer advice on solutions. Is that a bad thing,in your valued opinion?

If, in fact this guy is a mechanical or transport engineer then I might suggest that he take up his argument with both vehicle ORIGINAL MANUFACTURERS and with the APPROVED SECONDARY MANUFACTURERS than to put all his energy into criticising everyone who does not own a 79 series Toyota.
This may be for him at least a better pass (not past) time as he suggested to me in an above post.

Surely you are not serious with this rant? Never have I had an issue with either the  manufacturer or the second stage manufacturer.All I have ever done is point out the short-comings of individual vehicles,and try to help people understand the folly of trying to make their cars do things for which they were not designed.Gave a GREAT weekend,and always remember that I am here if you need any advice or help with weights,or indeed,purchasing a suitable car.Cheers.

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Saturday 21st of September 2019 05:09:48 PM

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blaze wrote:

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the strange thing is yobarr, I mostly agree with you but strongly disagree with the method you use to try and convey the message. There is no need to continually state that something is a fact, often in bold, italic or some other method, like red print. Nothing gets up my goat more.
cheers
blaze

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 Thanks Robert,for your thoughts.Very early on,I realised that many people do not actually read or understand posts,rather simply look at them.This is the reason for me using italics,colour or bold letters,as I believe that such things help to draw attention to salient points.Such tactics sometimes still don't work,however,as evidenced by some of the convoluted posts that often  follow mine.Oh well,I can but try to help,although it seems that some do not welcome the truth if it is at odds with what they want to believe.C'est la vie! Cheers

yobarr wrote:

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blaze wrote:

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the strange thing is yobarr, I mostly agree with you but strongly disagree with the method you use to try and convey the message. There is no need to continually state that something is a fact, often in bold, italic or some other method, like red print. Nothing gets up my goat more.
cheers
blaze

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 Thanks Robert,for your thoughts.Very early on,I realised that many people do not actually read or understand posts,rather simply look at them.This is the reason for me using italics,colour or bold letters,as I believe that such things help to draw attention to salient points.Such tactics sometimes still don't work,however,as evidenced by some of the convoluted posts that often  follow mine.Oh well,I can but try to help,although it seems that some do not welcome the truth if it is at odds with what they want to believe.C'est la vie! Cheers

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 Goodbye forever to a complete "know it all". The truth be yours & yours alone. Most people read posts fully & don't need or require beating over the head. Some of us are quite intelligent.