Nudge bars - Decoration, or do they help prevent damage.

iana · Guru

Nudge bars - Decoration, or do they help prevent damage.

2weis · Senior Member

they are called nudge bars not bull bars
they are really only for mounting lights or aerials
Brian

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

They can cause more damage when pushed back that they save.
Don't waste your money.
Cheers,
Peter

iana · Guru

I am thinking of protection for the intercooler, air con and engine coolant radiators. Being able to limp to the nearest town, so I am unconcerned about exterior damage, its about absorbing the impact. We drive at about 85km/hr. Just to set the record, I personally think they are decoration and extra weight. But I am thinking that even if the intercooler and air con are damaged, the engine will still run, even a slow leak in the engine radiator will still allow travel. How ever putting a transmission cooler at the very front and it gets damaged, one will not move again, even if you could bypass the cooler, topping up the gearbox oil is not possible with out a hoist.

2weis · Senior Member

my thoughts only
the will give protection to only the lightest of impacts at the front
anything over 15kph and i think they would not be much help
Brian

iana · Guru

Sooooo the general consensus so far is have a full bull bar installed, or continue to have nothing and save your money?

Tony Bev · Guru

Hi Ian

Back in the day, when I was young and more foolish than I am now, and had never actually seen an aluminium Roobar

I worked in an isolated very small town, where we were surrounded by Roos

We made are own Roo bars out of whatever we could scrounge out of the scrap bin

We made the cleats out of 10mm plate. and just picked up any bolts/holes which were already in the chassis

You could have someone make the two cleats, to fit between your chassis rails, and the aluminium nudge bar

Below is rough sketch of the type of cleats we use to make

Roobar cleat.png

rgren2 · Guru

Bull bars and nudge bars must be airbag compliant and carry the relevant sticker.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

iana wrote:
Sooooo the general consensus so far is have a full bull bar installed, or continue to have nothing and save your money?

No. Saving your money is why you pay insurance. Only when they reduce your premiums if you install something will they save your money and that's not likely. It also tells you what value they really are in terms of reducing damage.

The only argument is they might allow a limp home Vs a break down, but I reckon that is unlikely too.

Then there are the downsides of bull bars to consider. The extra weight out there is not good for any vehicle. Nor is the increased fuel consumption.

Cheers,

Peter

dabbler · Guru

Peter has made some good points. Nudge bars can be used for mounting lighting (and that can reduce the risk of animal strike) and antenna. Want to avoid animal strike ? Lift your right foot.

Tony Bev · Guru

rgren2 wrote:
Bull bars and nudge bars must be airbag compliant and carry the relevant sticker.

Thanks for that info rgren2, that is something I was unaware of

Just looked at my 2006 RV, (same as Avatar) it has a full aluminium roobar, and I do not see any airbag compliant stickers on it

Whenarewethere · Guru

Not only do you not want the bar to hinder airbag deployment.

Probably where the bar attaches to the car there are a number of progressive crumple zones behind it. Build the bar too strong & you will have a squashed front of car & it will probably bend the car in a less desirable place & be move expensive to repair.

Also hanging weight off the front of the car adds a bit more load to your suspension's wear & tear.

If your payload is at its limit something has to go. You will need to subtract the weight of the bar from your payload, & for lights etc if you add them latter.

The weight of all these things add up when you're not looking!

EJP · Senior Member

If you are considering roo bar, a Smart Bar may be an option. They are light (mine is 38 kg fitted), ADR and air bag compliant and reputably have a good reputation for effectiveness. They come with attachments for lights and arials and do not require any modifictions to the front suspension. The only downside is their looks. People either love them or hate them.
EJP

iana · Guru

Believe me Whenarewethere, I know all that, this is why I am resisting all weight additions, and you don't know how hard that is to do.
Thanks Tony, but also removing the grill I spied a sinister looking bar and some switch looking thingies, suspect they have something to do with the airbags.
Its the other half that want the nudge bar, I think a Bull bar is the only thing to make a difference, but as said it comes with associated weight, and I want neither.
Dabbler, you don't want to drive behind me, you will find my right foot is rather light, this is due to the GPS in the LH seat, and transmission oil temperature.

Whenarewethere · Guru

In a previous life I supplied aluminium to a bull bar manufacturer, trying to reduce weight out the front of the car was one of their goals.

I did a spreadsheet for every last item put in the car, 24 kg of items under 1 kg, not including food or clothes.

When I look at the car when we head off there doesn't look like much in the car. I've since added more weight, including 18 kg extra in larger tyres, 3 kg per tyre, so am looking at what will have to go. Not easy, even trying to loose weight myself to free up payload!

When one sees cars loaded to the gunnels & it's dragging it's ar_e one wonders how much over the payload their car is!

People also don't realise that their "keeping up with the Jones" model with electric everything has a lower payload than the pauper model, & it can be a few hundred kg difference!

Craig1 · Guru

X2 for Smart Bar, bit like ugly babies, they grow on you. You can deduct the weight of factory alloy crash bar, which resides behind the plastic bumper on most newer cars. Mine was 10kg on 2017 Landcruiser. So 28 kg is not tooo bad extra. Coppers and Ambo's both run them in NSW

Whenarewethere · Guru

If you have front parking sensors they will need to be replaced.

landy · Guru

I agree with every thing said so far. Only thing I can add is prevention is better than cure. Try to avoid traveling early morning and late afternoon when
your more likely to find wild life on the roads, fit good lights for when you do need to travel in the dark, and adjust your speed to suit your situation and not
the guy behind who thinks you should be doing the speed limit because he is in a hurry.
Stay safe Landy.

Ron-D · Guru

Nudge bars are mainly for looks thats why I fitted one ,mag wheels most of us have are The same,along with a lot of other things ,metallic paint dont need that as well ,guess you dont need nice seat covers I could go on,just stick with a plain Jane if you cant see or appreciate the obvious biggrin

Whenarewethere · Guru

A dozen cars with bull bars, one without! & it's staying that way.

Jaahn · Guru

iana wrote:
Believe me Whenarewethere, I know all that, this is why I am resisting all weight additions, and you don't know how hard that is to do.
Thanks Tony, but also removing the grill I spied a sinister looking bar and some switch looking thingies, suspect they have something to do with the airbags.
Its the other half that want the nudge bar, I think a Bull bar is the only thing to make a difference, but as said it comes with associated weight, and I want neither.
Dabbler, you don't want to drive behind me, you will find my right foot is rather light, this is due to the GPS in the LH seat, and transmission oil temperature.

Hi Iana,

I do not think there are any switch thingies to trigger the air bags there. Generally the air bag and other serious sensors are mounted in the cabin under the dash firmly attached to the structure to sense the impact on the major structure of the car. The air bags do not go off(in this country) unless there in a serious impact recorded. I doubt the type of bar mounted on the front makes much difference in a big collision despite the hype that various manufacturers use to frighten punters into their product. Which one has actually thrown their product fitted on a vehicle into a concrete block several times to test it ?????

Behind the front bumper is a series of colapsible beams and thingies that actually are designed to deform and spread the impact loads and absorb them to reduce the forces on the people belted inside. Hmm why not take all that off and fit a rigid bull bar designed by a boilermaker !!

Jaahn

-- Edited by Jaahn on Wednesday 12th of June 2019 01:55:52 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

On my car the impact sensors are located at the base of both B pillars, at base of both C pillars but a bit lower & more forward & also 2 sensors behind the radiator grill at the top on each side of the grill.

Also they are part of the seatbelt pretensioners, so I personally would want the whole setup to work at its best.

-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Wednesday 12th of June 2019 01:22:56 PM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Thank goodness we have Roo bar on our M home . Last year a Roo hit us !! Other than smashing front lights a little bumper , Roo bar damage . It could have been way worse !! But its not a nudge bar .

-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 12th of June 2019 02:20:47 PM

Olive Oil · Senior Member

Nudge bars are just a piece of bling, as are sports bars on utilities.
When we had our canopy fitted the sports bar was removed, the tubing was not much thicker than a beer can! Definitely not a roll bar.

Baz421 · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
They can cause more damage when pushed back that they save.
Don't waste your money.
Cheers,
Peter

Agree,,, they only LIGHTLY protect a small proportion of the front end ie radiator generally,,, and as others have said fit compliant bull bars for airbags,,, another factor is there height from ground level --- you don't want any beast coming over the top at your head area,,, DO YOU?????

Common sense (is it still practiced) applies to this subject.

Salesmen love to sell you bright shiny things,, as always.

-- Edited by Baz421 on Thursday 13th of June 2019 09:47:38 AM

Ron-D · Guru

A front end accident is going to be an insurance job whether you have a nudge bar or not ,the only real protection would be a massive steel bull bar,so you can hang that on the front and have some real protection from kangaroos,or put a nice alloy nudge bar on the front looks great protects little...

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Iana,
If you're worried about the weight of a bull bar (60-70kg), consider a Smart bar (30kg). They do have a problem - cost!

I'm doing some serious looking for when I get a dual cab & being aware now that I cannot plonk all manner of miscellaneous hunks of steel on a car as in a couple of decades ago. Honestly, I don't know why the bars one can buy these days are called bull bars - I would hate to hit a bull at speed!

Radar · Guru

We have a aluminum front bar, its great to hang the driving lights on, cb antenna, it looks smart.

We have upgraded the suspenion of the ute to tow the caravan better, the weight of the add ons were all taken into consideration when working out the spring rates.

The bar I believe will protect the front of the car and all those radiators we have just behind the plastic fronts from medium size animals.

My second choice would of been a nudge bar, ECB nudge bar I had fitted to a previous car worked a treat protecting the centre radiator area.

It would be extremely hard to say either way a bar of any sort is a real advantage or total disadvantage.

blissonwheels · Senior Member

Gooday,

They are a great protection when parking close to something or for mounting Spotlights etc on but just do . not expect it to save you even in a low speed crash.

This happened to us a few weeks ago, just North of Singleton on New England Highway we were moving slowly in a long line of traffic approximately 10 KMH, bloke in front stopped, No Stop Lights came on I pressed the brake pedal the hardest I have ever done, towing 3 tonne Caravan, below is the result, we did not even tension the seat belts. Damage to Isuzu tray back ute, 1 bent tail light bracket, his tow bar tongue went through & put a large impression in front radiator unit, our Repairs $10,000 +, best part was nobody hurt, nobody ran into rear of Caravan & us, was able to drive away.

2 inch Nudge bar folded like a hot chocolate bar.

Cyclops · Veteran Member

Hmm. 45 years of serious Vic Alps 4w driving has taught me a couple of things about bull bars. Aluminium bars are little better than nudge bars when you hit something solid. A roo hit at moderate speed will fold an alloy bar up like it is made of aluminium foil. They are usually unrepairable, you can see plenty of them at the scrap metal dealers.

Steel bars manufactured by a reputable maker are the only real protection. If you buy one from a reputable outlet they are fully compliant with the safety features of your vehicle. Mine even has headlight washers built into it, because the bar covers the washers on the vehicle which are mandatory for some bull dust reason with HID headlights. Mind you, if you hit an old man roo at speed you are going do some serious repairs even with these well made bars.

In my opinion no vehicle manufacturer provides a factory bar that is anywhere near as good as an ARB, TJM, Ironman etc, bar. I have bought second hand vehicles with factory bars that are immediately taken off and replaced with a good winch bar from one of the above.

You will see some home made monstrosities mounted on vehicles. These are more often than not grossly over weight and not compliant with the safety features of the original vehicle. Some look like the maker has converted a farm gate or even a cattle grid into a bull bar.

As far as nudge bars go, why are you wasting your money on this crap? Get your kids to make you one out of silver painted papier-mâché it will be cheaper entertain your kids and give you the same protection.

Pete