https://www.livescience.com/34464-what-is-fracking.html

miroku12g · Senior Member

Fracking

dogbox · Guru

fracking could be considered a bigger threat than climate change

Plain Truth · Guru

Fracking should be banned,

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160328-earthquakes-map-risks-usgs-science/

biggles2 · Veteran Member

.. and out here on the Moree Plains in Northern NSW, we have artesian sources that are our supply of fresh water .. especially as our rainwater tanks sit half empty. It's a flat "flood plain" and although the supply is from a fair distance down, fracking in other areas is quite likely to have a dramatic effect on this area too.

Unfortunately, I believe that we've yet to experience far greater problems in Oz due to Fracking ..

Santa · Guru

Fracking worries me more than climate change. disbelief

woolman · Guru

Fracking has been going on for over 50 years without any evidence of interfering with water supply. I gather it is much deeper than any water sources. The explority drilling is what needs to be controlled and monitored. If done properly is no problem either. Neil

Olive Oil · Senior Member

All the profits go overseas and we're left with a polluted water table. It's fracking madness. So many examples of what can and has gone wrong in other countries. How stupid are we?

.

Santa · Guru

The article below from this site. https://www.livescience.com/34464-what-is-fracking.html

"How safe is fracking?

Proponents of fracking claim that the drilling technique is a safe and clean method of securing essential sources of power that will meet U.S. energy needs for decades.

"Fracking has unlocked massive new supplies of oil and clean-burning natural gas from dense deposits of shale supplies that increase our country's energy security and improve our ability to generate electricity, heat homes and power vehicles for generations to come," according to EnergyFromShale.org, an alliance of oil and gas industry groups.

But opponents say the industry is whitewashing fracking's real effects, a long list that includes air pollution, groundwater contamination, health problems and surface water pollution.

Recent history supports some of their claims: A fracking well in Bradford County, Pa., operated by Chesapeake Energy Corp., malfunctioned in April 2011, spewing thousands of gallons of contaminated fracking water for more than 12 hours.

And in 2012, Chesapeake was again cited for contaminating the drinking water of three families in Pennsylvania, resulting in a settlement of $1.6 million, according to NPR.org. "Many companies keep their specific 'recipes' for fracking fluids secret, arguing that this is intellectual property," Bjornerud said. "This lack of disclosure makes it difficult to tie any contamination of drinking water to a particular company or well."

Researchers from Duke University tested drinking water at 60 sites throughout Pennsylvania and New York; their research was published in 2011 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The researchers found that drinking water near fracking wells had levels of methane that "fell squarely within a range that the U.S. Department of Interior says is dangerous and requires urgent 'hazard mitigation' action," ProPublica reports.

There may be more cases of water that has been contaminated by fracking, but legal settlements and nondisclosure agreements usually prevent access to any documentation of these incidents, The New York Times reports.

A federal study, released in July 2014 by the DOE's National Energy Technology Laboratory, did find no evidence that chemicals from the fracking process had contaminated groundwater at one Pennsylvania drilling site.

In addition to water quality issues, fracking wells release compounds into the air, such as benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene and n-hexane; long-term exposure to these has been linked to birth defects, neurological problems, blood disorders and cancer. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) has found that workers may be exposed to dust with high levels of respirable silica during hydraulic fracturing. These findings were shared after NIOSH studied 116 full shift air samples at 11 hydraulic fracturing sites in five states."

the rocket · Guru

miroku12g wrote:
Iv'e just been told that Mataranka is in the firing line for Fracking, could this be true ? or just a rumor spread around, if true would that not destroy the Artesian basin / thermal streams ? must say i don't know to much about the process.
Regards
Dave

Look up lock the gate.

the rocket · Guru

dogbox wrote:
fracking could be considered a bigger threat than climate change

They are both bad

the rocket · Guru

woolman wrote:
Fracking has been going on for over 50 years without any evidence of interfering with water supply. I gather it is much deeper than any water sources. The explority drilling is what needs to be controlled and monitored. If done properly is no problem either. Neil
Worth a look at lock the gate.

the rocket · Guru

Santa wrote:

The article below from this site. https://www.livescience.com/34464-what-is-fracking.html

"How safe is fracking?
Proponents of fracking claim that the drilling technique is a safe and clean method of securing essential sources of power that will meet U.S. energy needs for decades.
"Fracking has unlocked massive new supplies of oil and clean-burning natural gas from dense deposits of shale supplies that increase our country's energy security and improve our ability to generate electricity, heat homes and power vehicles for generations to come," according to EnergyFromShale.org, an alliance of oil and gas industry groups.
But opponents say the industry is whitewashing fracking's real effects, a long list that includes air pollution, groundwater contamination, health problems and surface water pollution.
Recent history supports some of their claims: A fracking well in Bradford County, Pa., operated by Chesapeake Energy Corp., malfunctioned in April 2011, spewing thousands of gallons of contaminated fracking water for more than 12 hours.
And in 2012, Chesapeake was again cited for contaminating the drinking water of three families in Pennsylvania, resulting in a settlement of $1.6 million, according to NPR.org. "Many companies keep their specific 'recipes' for fracking fluids secret, arguing that this is intellectual property," Bjornerud said. "This lack of disclosure makes it difficult to tie any contamination of drinking water to a particular company or well."
Researchers from Duke University tested drinking water at 60 sites throughout Pennsylvania and New York; their research was published in 2011 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The researchers found that drinking water near fracking wells had levels of methane that "fell squarely within a range that the U.S. Department of Interior says is dangerous and requires urgent 'hazard mitigation' action," ProPublica reports.
There may be more cases of water that has been contaminated by fracking, but legal settlements and nondisclosure agreements usually prevent access to any documentation of these incidents, The New York Times reports.
A federal study, released in July 2014 by the DOE's National Energy Technology Laboratory, did find no evidence that chemicals from the fracking process had contaminated groundwater at one Pennsylvania drilling site.
In addition to water quality issues, fracking wells release compounds into the air, such as benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene and n-hexane; long-term exposure to these has been linked to birth defects, neurological problems, blood disorders and cancer. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) has found that workers may be exposed to dust with high levels of respirable silica during hydraulic fracturing. These findings were shared after NIOSH studied 116 full shift air samples at 11 hydraulic fracturing sites in five states."

Thanks for that article santa.

-- Edited by the rocket on Thursday 23rd of May 2019 10:16:42 AM

the rocket · Guru

Nothing surprises me about this disgusting hydraulic fracking. For those who would like more information perhaps look up john jenkin on net n c what he has been through and is going through on his farm. Join lock the gate or join knitting nannas in your local area. Buy dvd the bentley effEct. In 2014 at bentley. Nsw. Near lismore. Might even see me. I want our future generations to have clean air, clean water and clean land to grow food.

Iva Biggen · Senior Member

the rocket wrote:
dogbox wrote:
fracking could be considered a bigger threat than climate change
They are both bad

Dick0 · Guru

FFS!!!

Fracking has NOT caused ANY environmental issues to date...only wealth and fossil fuel independence.

The GREENIES extremists are so prevalent on this site!

Izabarack · Guru

Dick0 wrote:
The GREENIES extremists are so prevalent on this site!

What site is that? I don't see any GREENIE extremists here.

Iza

Santa · Guru

Dick0 wrote:
FFS!!!
Fracking has NOT caused ANY environmental issues to date...only wealth and fossil fuel independence.
The GREENIES extremists are so prevalent on this site!

You obviously missed my link to Livescience, here it is again https://www.livescience.com/34464-what-is-fracking.html

Not a greenie in sight. wink

bobsa · Senior Member

is fracking safe ?
Have a search for the movie GASLAND it is very interesting movie about fracking in the USA
www.youtube.com/watch
here is the link to the trailer
bob

-- Edited by bobsa on Friday 24th of May 2019 11:08:38 AM

-- Edited by bobsa on Friday 24th of May 2019 01:39:43 PM

elliemike · Guru

Izabarack wrote:
Dick0 wrote:
The GREENIES extremists are so prevalent on this site!
What site is that? I don't see any GREENIE extremists here.

Iza

(The GREENIES extremists are so prevalent on this site!)

I wondered about this as well Iza.

I actually like camping in clean bush camp sites, e.g No Excrement, toilet paper, Batteries, Oil Drums, plastic bags, ally cans, beer bottles. I love the great outdoors, keen on birds, bush walking, native animals, beautiful outback Australian places. The threat to native and migrant Bird species alone in Australia is Monumental. I like to see birds around our camper and also when I take a walk anywhere. I would hope the future generations will still be seeing them in real life 200 years on.

Oooops well there you go I have blown my cover.

-- Edited by elliemike on Friday 24th of May 2019 03:53:16 PM

Dick0 · Guru

elliemike wrote:
Izabarack wrote:
Dick0 wrote:
The GREENIES extremists are so prevalent on this site!
What site is that? I don't see any GREENIE extremists here.

Iza
(The GREENIES extremists are so prevalent on this site!)
I wondered about this as well Iza.
I actually like camping in clean bush camp sites, e.g No Excrement, toilet paper, Batteries, Oil Drums, plastic bags, ally cans, beer bottles. I love the great outdoors, keen on birds, bush walking, native animals, beautiful outback Australian places. The threat to native and migrant Bird species alone in Australia is Monumental. I like to see birds around our camper and also when I take a walk anywhere. I would hope the future generations will still be seeing them in real life 200 years on.
Oooops well there you go I have blown my cover.

You sure have blown your cover...as others here!!!

-- Edited by elliemike on Friday 24th of May 2019 03:53:16 PM

Izabarack · Guru

elliemike wrote:
I like to see birds around our camper and also when I take a walk anywhere. I would hope the future generations will still be seeing them in real life 200 years on.

Maybe I can beat that reveal. I pick up a grant to be handed to me by Costa from Gardening Australia, on Sunday. The grant will be used to do bush regeneration in a local Environmental Reserve. I have 24 signed up helpers to get into it with me. All sparked by watching the Great Grand kids watching kangas and koalas, and a whole lot more, around here.

GREENIE extremist? Call me what ever you want, does not have any effect on me and tells me a lot about you.

Iza

blaze · Guru

I worked for a logging contracter once, well paid contract work maintaining the fleet .he always maintained he was all about substainable logging. After about a month in the job I had to go to a repair out on site in the bush. Drove to the coup and quit my job and went home, it just didn't sit well with me. At the time I was single income supporting wife and 3 kids, buying a house at 17% interest. I am far from anti forest industries but there is a limit. Yep if nature in all her glory is being green, then label me too
cheers
blaze

Izabarack · Guru

blaze wrote:
Drove to the coup and quit my job and went home, ....

Positive action is the thing that might actually result in leaving something for the future generations. Trying to insult people for responsible action and valid concerns, makes a problem worse.

Iza

Whenarewethere · Guru

Dick0 wrote:
elliemike wrote:
Izabarack wrote:
Dick0 wrote:
The GREENIES extremists are so prevalent on this site!
What site is that? I don't see any GREENIE extremists here.

Iza
(The GREENIES extremists are so prevalent on this site!)
I wondered about this as well Iza.
I actually like camping in clean bush camp sites, e.g No Excrement, toilet paper, Batteries, Oil Drums, plastic bags, ally cans, beer bottles. I love the great outdoors, keen on birds, bush walking, native animals, beautiful outback Australian places. The threat to native and migrant Bird species alone in Australia is Monumental. I like to see birds around our camper and also when I take a walk anywhere. I would hope the future generations will still be seeing them in real life 200 years on.
Oooops well there you go I have blown my cover.

We like clean areas & do our bit picking other people's rubbish where we can, especially around Sydney foreshore, on a continuous basis, we fill a bag everytime we go for a walk. Picked up some rubbish on Cape Pillar track recently & carried it out. No end to it.

Handed out how to vote for the Greens & drive a petrol car so I can't be too fanatical, but we do try to walk when we can, so maybe we are fanatical afterall.

Knight · Senior Member

bobsa wrote:
is fracking safe ?
Have a search for the movie GASLAND it is very interesting movie about fracking in the USA
www.youtube.com/watch
here is the link to the trailer
bob

-- Edited by bobsa on Friday 24th of May 2019 11:08:38 AM

-- Edited by bobsa on Friday 24th of May 2019 01:39:43 PM

Gasland video is as deceptive and misleading as Al Gore's Convenient Lies regarding naturally occurring climate change, later changed to man made global warming by carbon dioxide hoax.

CO2 is at present 410 parts per million in the atmosphere (0.040%) and not a long way above plant starvation level. Ideally there would be 1,500 ppm to 2,000 ppm in the atmosphere. US submariners regularly work submerged with around 8,000 ppm with no health problems reported.

CO2 is invisible and odourless, it is not Carbon, and therefore not Carbon pollution as many claim it to be. It is not the clouds hanging above coal fired power stations that the ABC likes to broadcast images of, that is water vapour from the cooling towers. Coal fired power stations, gas fired, nuclear are fuel to heat water to produce steam to drive steam turbines that turn generators. Nuclear ships are effectively driven by steam engines.

In the UK and some other places the extreme Greens promote the replacement of coal with "biomass", in the UK wood chips imported on diesel engine powered ships from foreign lands. But that biomass is considered to be renewable energy, ignore the CO2 content.

Hydraulic fracturing simply mimics nature, earth tremors cause fracturing of rock and release natural gas. Bores in the Outback contain natural gases and can be set alight. So why would people condemn natural gas extraction, coal seam gas and shale seam gas when it is natural and already in aquifers? Coal seams are above the water table. I have spent many years visiting open cut coal mines and have never sighted water unless it has been raining.

The USA has gone from importing oil and gas to becoming an exporter again since the hydraulic fracturing and oil exploration drilling bans were lifted by President Trump.

Russia is now a major supplier to EU countries of natural gas exported via a pipeline, Germany is one major client. I have read posts claiming that the UK and the US are getting out of coal. The UK does not have much coal left to mine and is importing electricity from French nuclear power stations via an interconnector or two. The truth is that gas is cheaper to extract than coal so where applicable it makes good commercial sense to replace coal with gas.

Beware of the socialist globalist deceivers and their fairy tales.

Knight · Senior Member

And food for thought added ...

To replace the NSW Liddell coal fired Power Station with 2,000 MW of generating capacity, capacity factor on average higher than 95%, with wind turbines would be prohibitively expensive and suitable land would not be available to accommodate the wind turbines needed.

Near Goulburn NSW is the Capital Hill Wind Farm, Infigen Energy, built to back up the Sydney at Kurnell Desalination Plant when it was built. There are 67 wind turbines with combined installed capacity of 140 MW, capacity factor 30%, so 42 MW capacity output on average, when the wind blows.

To duplicate Liddell would require 48 Capital Hills, each covering 15,000 acres (6,000 hectares), and costing 3-4 new High Energy Low Emission coal fired Liddell Power Stations.

In other words 2,000 MW of electricity for the price of 6-8,000 MW.

And then add the "firming" or back up generators necessary, and the "poles and wires" for feeder electricity lines to the main grid. All at extra cost.

The sooner our electricity system, the world's largest interconnected grid spanning Tasmania, Victoria, South Australia, New South Wales (inc ACT) and Queensland, is boosted with new baseload generator power stations with capacity to handle peak demand periods the sooner reliability will return and stabilised electricity pricing, if not lower.

Ignore the fuel, gas or nuclear would be good, thorium molten salt reactors, whatever, as long as the technology is power station generators.

Knight · Senior Member

Who does not care for the environment?

How is sustainable logging of State Forests not environmentally acceptable? In Europe the Greens encourage power stations to replace coal with biomass, wood chips because they are renewable energy. In Tasmania the Labor-Greens closed down State Forests and handed them over to National Parks & Widlife sacrificing the jobs of loggers, truck drivers, timber mills and many other businesses using timber.

What is the point of increasing the population, 12 million in the 1970s to 25 million by 2018 and building no new major dams? Several dam sites marked for development during the 1960s and 1970s handed to National Parks & Wildlife. And as PM Abbott once observed, Australia has so many National Parks the money is not available to care for them, and as bushfire fighters know bushland left without the thousands of years of traditional seasonal burning traditions of the Australian Aborigines soon become potential for dangerous and devastating hot wild fires. The Aborigines developed their seasonal burning observing nature, lightning strikes for example and then the results of more open bushland and thriving native grasses.

Talk about climate changing, about 130,000 years ago the land we now call Australia experienced climate becoming drier and the rainforests retreated to be replaced by what we effectionately call The Bush. The rainforests are now coastal and cover not large areas. Drought is not new in the land of droughts and flooding rains. Since the last major Ice Age around 18,000 years ago when the Gulf of Carpentaria was a lake there have been numerous periods of drought including at least one lasting over 1,000 years.

Right now the Sun is experiencing a decline in solar activity, a Maunder Minimum, the last produced the Little Ice Age a few hundred years ago, the River Thames iced over most winters and the winters lasted longer. The northern hemisphere is always cooler than the southern hemisphere but we can expect to experience increasingly colder weather conditions. The Lake that is now the Gulf of Carpentaria was apparently a popular camping place for the tribes, a little warmer than down south.

Using natural resources to create national prosperity makes good sense, without a strong economy government cannot provide the infrastructure and services we take for granted. Consider the developing world countries, compare our situation with them. One key to our prosperity has been reliable and cheap electricity, not just for home use, commerce and industry relies on it, and now consider offshore locations to contain unacceptably rising operating costs. Adding all manufacturing operating costs together, not just wages, two years ago the Fin Review reported that the cost in Australia to employ a skilled person was A$600/day (rounded off figures). In the USA A$400/day and in India $200/day. Australia is losing competitiveness globally.

At a 1990s recession budget breakfast a mining executive addressed the meeting and warned that the roadblocks to foreign investment were too many, that national prosperity was in decline and that the ordinary Australians would not notice for maybe a decade, ten plus years before the new mining start ups slowed to a trickle. And therefore a loss of new job prospects in mining and in the service industries and towns nearby. Here in 2019 I am reminded about that warning as the left side of politics plays silly and dangerous games with Adani. Silly and dangerous games with renewable (unreliable) energy, etc.

The Greens have claimed environmental damage from mining and that thousands of old mines remain an eyesore on the environment. Not accurate, they refer to relatively small holes in the ground, old gold mines, opal mines and others. The large open cut mines are repaired, the overburden soil replaced in the pit after the coal is extracted. New grass, shrubs and trees planted. And where I travelled regularly in the 1970s in the NSW Hunter Valley the old open cut mines cannot be easily identified by people who did not see the land before mining.

An American politician once remarked: It's the economy, Stupid. No economy, no tax revenue, no chance of national prosperity.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Building 80,000,000 homes in China that will be knocked down & rebuilt to keep people employed is a bit of a waste.

Knight · Senior Member

China knocked substandard homes down and built new homes of a safer and higher standard.

Misinformation about China is often published to mislead and to attack China.

The current population of China is 1,419,531,874 as of Friday, May 24, 2019, based on the latest United Nations estimates.
China population is equivalent to 18.41% of the total world population.
China ranks number 1 in the list of countries (and dependencies) by population.
The population density in China is 151 per Km2 (392 people per mi2).
The total land area is 9,388,211 Km2 (3,624,807 sq. miles)
60.4 % of the population is urban (857,055,542 people in 2019)
The median age in China is 37.3 years.

-- Edited by Knight on Saturday 25th of May 2019 03:58:01 PM

Izabarack · Guru

Knight wrote:

Hydraulic fracturing simply mimics nature, earth tremors cause fracturing of rock and release natural gas.

A statement that contradicts itself. Hydraulic fracturing deliberately done by human action does not mimic nature. Hydraulic fracturing deliberately done by human action releases gas that would not naturally be released by nature. The gas released is in addition to that released by natural forces. See Carbon Sequestration to get an idea of why and how fracking product needs to be dealt with.

Iza