'Even feral cats bury their waste': Filthy campers leave wrecked gear, excrement on South Coast

Santa · Guru

Filthy campers

Possum3 · Guru

Santa, Filth from campers often comes up on GN's as if Grey Nomads are the culprits. I have found after many years experiencing camping and caravanning around Australia that the majority of filth is created by "Yobbo's" and other young people/families.
Most of our fellow GN's that we meet and travel with tend to be the people that clean up the "confetti" and other rubbish particularly where backpackers and alternate lifestylers regularly Freecamp.

Whilst I believe the filth evidenced by the photos is truly disgusting the writer is running a wilderness camp for which I assume she is charging people to camp at within a National Park area. As a camping area I believe the operators have an obligation to provide facilities and police the area that they are profiting from. If they are unable to control their guests they should monitor and call in NPWS Rangers or State Police rather than blaming others.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Yep Santa, makes ya sorry ya part of the human race don't it. cry

However, it is one of the ugly parts of the human condition ... anywhere people gather they leave behind mountains of disgusting rubbish after their disgusting behaviour.

Look at any venue, whether camp ground or sporting venue, and this is what ya find.

Flemington after Melbourne Cup day as an example......

Rubbish 01.jpg

Rubbish 02.jpg

Rubbish 03.jpg

Only difference, is for some damned reason, folk don't whinge and put articles in the paper saying that the Melbourne Cup (or any footy) crowd should be banned. hmm

Cheers - John

Kebbin · Guru

Come on Possum, firstly no one blamed grey nomads and secondly the lady in question hires canoes not campgrounds, they cleaned the area after the grubs, thirdly Brogo Dam is day use and either NP rangers or water authorities responsibility.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

It seems the tourist advertising blurb doesn't include when there are Christmas/New year campers in residence.

Brogo Dam has an extensive catchment running back into the magnificent Brogo Wilderness area. The waterways are pristine with gorges rising 180 feet high in Nelsons Creek. The peaceful backwaters are a haven for local native birdlife Sea eagles and swooping Azure Kingfishers & many more.

Imagine nothing to be heard but the sounds of piping bird calls and the splash of a paddle moving through still water. The canoe is the perfect vantage point to view the spectacular and colourful Water Dragons, Goannas, and shy Echidnas. See the Rock Orchids clinging to sheer cliffs, (flowering in September). Contrast the rare Deua Eucalypt and Sandpaper Figs to the shady western cliffs with collections of leafy ferns and trailing vines.

For tranquillity and beauty its hard to beat bring a picnic lunch and choose from any number of secluded location.

Cheers - John

Possum3 · Guru

Kebbin, The facts remain Sue Nagle Thorssell, who operates Brogo Wilderness Canoes with her partner Dave is a run for profit business.
There must be facilities provided if such a business to be operating, further National Parks and Wildlife have the Authority to monitor/police the National Park area around the Dam. If the area is to be run as a Wilderness camping area there is an obligation for those responsible to operate and maintain the area correctly
.
My initial umbrage was that GN's forum is where complaints are often aired regarding "Filthy Campers". It seems we GN's are the softest area to kick and unfairly complain about.

As John (RL) stated above there are people that are "Absolute Ferals/Bogans" throughout Australia.

Kebbin · Guru

Possum to put it simply it's not a wilderness camping area, they hire canoes not camps.

Possum3 · Guru

Direct quote from the article; "Brogo Dam is a popular camping location, but it is also one of Bega shires sources for drinking water.The reason we all love to experience this particular environment is for its isolation and pristine beauty".

Santa · Guru

Morning Possum,

I was not inferring Grey Nomads were responsible, was simply meant to draw attention to the filth that we as nomads so frequently encounter.

Desert Dweller · Guru

We reckon that it's mostly yobbos that leave crap out in the bush. No self respecting retiree/grey nomad would lower themselves to that level of grottiness.

On a recent Outback NSW trip we bush camped alone in Nombinnie Nature Reserve adjacent to, but not visible from the Kidman Way south of Cobar.

It was a lovely camp for 3 nights but unfortunately spoiled by piles of rubbish left behind by yobbos. We cleared the rubbish from the area around our camp.

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Santa · Guru

Looks like a great camp site DD, shame about the rubbish.

The Stuart Highway is notorious for this sort of thing, particularly on the SA side of the border, unlike NSW, SA provides little in the way of facilities for travelers.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Twice a week I walk around a small section of Sydney Harbour foreshore walking track & collect a bag of rubbish. Drink bottles, chip wrappers, sweet wrappers, takeaway lunch wrappers & full doggy waste bags that should not be in that area in the first place. It's been steadily getting worse over the last 50 years, but I feel the volume of rubbish been ramping up in the last 5 years, sadly! Mostly plastic.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Heading east from Norseman the amount of glass bottles & broken bottles on the side of the road is frightening. We tried to have a back of the envelope guess & it would be well into the tens of tonnes if not a 100 plus tonnes! Very sad situation!

Santa · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
Heading east from Norseman the amount of glass bottles & broken bottles on the side of the road is frightening. We tried to have a back of the envelope guess & it would be well into the tens of tonnes if not a 100 plus tonnes! Very sad situation!

Have to say SA's container deposit system means virtually no cans or bottles on the roadside.

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Just my two bob's worth.
Most of our state governments are broke (or close to it) & therefore don't want to spend any money in caring for, updating the parks (National, Conservation, Forest) in their care - UNLESS the parks are in "The Kingdom of the Great SE Corner of Qld) or in WA where a fee is collected for entry (daily, monthly, annual). I know there is an Honesty system in NSW & a Desert Parks Pass is required in SA - if people are going to camp in specific areas.

In regional & remote Qld we have one ranger, perhaps an assistant for on average three parks - an impossible task to fully maintain the parks & chase up rogue campers who may not have paid the camping fee anyhow!

It would be nice to see raids by National Parks & Wildlife staff with fines dished out in the popular camping times to see how campers are treating these places but that could incur overtime, travel costs.
It should not be left to the odd private enterprise group that is running a Hire Items facility to clean up the rubbish unless that is stipulated in their contract with NPWS.

We've seen campers in parks go feral once they get out of their cars & tents - roaring around on quad bikes, etc - with no respect for anyone or the park & animals.

What the answer is, I don't know. Where there has been an attempt to keep people out of areas, we've seen gates bypassed, heavy locks cut. Technology has not helped people to read - they are dumber by the year!

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Warren, the Brogo Canoe Hire mob, and the Brogo Dam are not within the Wadbilliga National Park.

The only camping area in the Wadbilliga Nat Pk is way on the western side of the park, Cascades Campground - with a fee, nowhere near Brogo Dam.

The area at Brogo Dam is listed, by NSW Water as a picnic spot - there is no mention of camping on their website - simply a picnic spot.

However, it is obviously used by locals - particularly over Christmas and New Year. I have not been able to locate, online, where the actual camping on the Brogo Dam is either allowed or utilised by locals/visitors.

The Brogo Wilderness Canoe Hire company is not within the Nat Park, so it must be on or near the dam.

The problem is not one for the Nat Park mob ... neither should it be a problem for the Canoe Hire mob ... I guess the problem to maintain the 'camping area at Brolog Dam' is within Water NSW (as it is their water source for Bega Shire) or the Bega Shire.

And really, there should be no need for any 'authority' to be cleaning up such disgusting mess after people either picnic or camp or canoe - it should be cleared up by those who frequented the place ... or better still - they should not have made the bloody mess in the first place. It's a bit like pooping in ya own nest. cry

Cheers - John

Whenarewethere · Guru

A year ago we were the only ones in Deep Creek NP, the weather was miserable so we ended up cleaning up every camping site of rubbish for 2 hours as a distraction, but we did refuse to pick up the toilet paper..... there are plenty of good toilets in the park!

A lovely place with all the massive grass trees, but too many people in the world who do not give a stuff!

SouthernComfort · Guru

Warren-Pat_01 wrote:

......What the answer is, I don't know. Where there has been an attempt to keep people out of areas, we've seen gates bypassed, heavy locks cut. Technology has not helped people to read - they are dumber by the year!

Possible that some can't read thanks to technology as you say. Also the 3 R's aren't really taught any more, so literacy goes out the window.

I suspect the bigger issue though is that the offenders simply don't care, no matter how many signs are posted they are devoid of any notion of social responsibility.

The Belmont Bear · Guru

It.s not only campers who illegally dump their garbage. I walk 6kms every day along the foreshore of Lake Macquarie and the ammount of trash that is left in reserves and washed up with each incoming tide is disgusting. Visiting weekend boaties, picnicers even local ferals are all just as guilty as each other because they are too lazy to put their rubbish into the council bins provided or to take it with them when they are not. One thing I do see is an elderly couple (local residents) who walk the foreshore reserve at Warners Bay summer and winter with their garbage bags and tongs picking up after these grubs.

Cheers
BB

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

You are correct Tony - "the offenders simply don't care, no matter how many signs are posted they are devoid of any notion of social responsibility".

Just like the young fellow whose irresponsible actions saw him drown in a flooded creek just north of Townsville recently.
NPWS posted signs "Swimming hole closed". The government says "If it's flooded, forget it"
While his parents described him as a "lovely boy", combined with booze, friends & a lack of responsibility, the outcome was one that hopefully his friends who thought he was joking when he cried out for help once will never forget.

Santa, the SA Highways Dept had a camp out on the Eyre Highway near Head of Bight (after the road was sealed) - they used to fund their Christmas parties with bottles, cans thrown out of cars!

Santa · Guru

Warren-Pat_01 wrote:

Santa, the SA Highways Dept had a camp out on the Eyre Highway near Head of Bight (after the road was sealed) - they used to fund their Christmas parties with bottles, cans thrown out of cars!

Underscores my point, a 10 cent refundable deposit on containers means there is an incentive to retrieve them for the monetary gain. smile

Eaglemax · Guru

In order for the litterers to be fined a person of authority (police, council worker, maybe ranger) need to catch the culprit in the act. "The act" includes seeing them drop rubbish then leaving the area. If someone justs drops a can on the ground he could argue he was going to get a garbage bag for all his rubbish before departing the area. If one doesnt see him drop rubbish lying at his feet "it was there when I arrived"

Hence very difficult to prosecute these ferals.

If they leave the area and their rubbish includes a letter addressed to them its a slam dunk fine. Sent many out myself 30 years ago often when bags of rubbish was dumped.

As observers of litterers we can do just that- observe, record rego numbers, time, date, description, location, take pics after they leave. Dont film people, thats a breach of privacy. Find the correct authority and send off pics of rubbish to the media for deterrence.

I personally found that 10 minutes bagging others rubbish myself I get over it quicker than staring at it for the 2-3 days while I camp there. After all it will always happen.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Santa wrote:
Warren-Pat_01 wrote:

Santa, the SA Highways Dept had a camp out on the Eyre Highway near Head of Bight (after the road was sealed) - they used to fund their Christmas parties with bottles, cans thrown out of cars!
Underscores my point, a 10 cent refundable deposit on containers means there is an incentive to retrieve them for the monetary gain.

In SA last year, the 10 cents works reasonably well, but it's been 10 cents since inception, could be a bit more now.

The other issue in SA is if it is not refundable, ie plastic wrappers, it is chucked, so the refund only works on a very narrow portion of products.

Possum3 · Guru

In NSW the refund scheme is an almost guaranteed tax for government. Cans cannot be crushed or even dented as the recycle machine has to "Read" the cans/containers.

Wanda · Guru

Can deposits in SA started out at 5cts, this was increased to 10cts only recently(within the last 10yrs).
I think the NSW system, from the sounds of how it works, is doomed and set for failure.
The system here in SA, although in place for many many years, works extremely well, why did NSW not adopt a similar system?
cheers
Ian

PS: I think it would be correct to say that, when it was increased from 5cts to 10cts, a "lot" of people who never bothered keeping them for themselve(gave them to the garbo's to recycle weekly) have now started storing them in bulk before recycling and getting the $$$

-- Edited by Wanda on Wednesday 9th of January 2019 10:56:49 AM

Possum3 · Guru

Wanda wrote:
The system here in SA, although in place for many many years, works extremely well, why did NSW not adopt a similar system?
cheers
Ian

As I alluded to in my previous post - If a government can imposed a "refund" scheme that collects but is very difficult to claim back it becomes a massive source of revenue - money for jam and they can always bleat to the greenies they are actually doing something.

Call me cynical?

granite53 · Veteran Member

Last report I saw on the NSW "Return and earn" scheme was that NSW consumers had been charged an extra $250 million on possible returnable containers (increased by $0.10/container - why did some cartons of cans (24) go up by as much as $3.00/carton) but only $100 million had been paid out to containers actually returned.

Therefore manufacturers had a windfall gain of $150 million.

Typical Green scheme - f***** in policy and f***** in execution.

Les

Recoup · Guru

I found out that collecting your stubbies and then returnig them to get your 10 cent back is a joke. First , I have to travel 4k to get there ,and then back ( my car does not run on air ) ,then waiting for up to 45 min. to put the bottles in the machine , ( people from vic. come with utes full of empty cans and bottles ) , then run into the shop to get the money back , forget it . End result , I pay more for my beer , one the plus , not many bottles and cans lying in the gutters. Cheers

Santa · Guru

Recoup wrote:
I found out that collecting your stubbies and then returnig them to get your 10 cent back is a joke. First , I have to travel 4k to get there ,and then back ( my car does not run on air ) ,then waiting for up to 45 min. to put the bottles in the machine , ( people from vic. come with utes full of empty cans and bottles ) , then run into the shop to get the money back , forget it . End result , I pay more for my beer , one the plus , not many bottles and cans lying in the gutters. Cheers

Certainly not the experience in SA.

We accumulate stubbies/cans for 6 months or so, call into recycle depot when in the area, no special trip, no machine, all done manually, the guys are quick, in and out in a matter of minutes with 30 or 40 bucks in your pocket, certainly worth the effort.

They won't accept cans from interstate, big fines apply if you get caught trying to rort the system.

Oh! as an afterthought, crushed cans are no problem.

As I said you won't find many deposit containers around camp area's in SA. smile

"a New South Wales man has been convicted and fined with attempting to bring drink cans into South Australia to reap the financial rewards of the state's container deposit scheme.

A 36-year-old man from Broken Hill has been fined $4,800 ordered to pay $960 in court costs and to the victims of crime levy after pleading guilty to the scam.

He was also ordered to forfeit 45,000 of his drink containers to the Environment Protection Authority (EPA)."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-29/south-australias-seinfeld-container-deposit-plot-foiled/9924002

Recoup · Guru

Santa ,that's what we need here on the border ,Albury /Wodonga , cheers

'Even feral cats bury their waste': Filthy campers leave wrecked gear, excrement on South Coast

By Ben Smyth