Fabric softener – do we really need it?

PeterD · Guru

Fabric softener – do we really need it?

Kebbin · Guru

Couldn't open your attachment Peter, but white vinegar is a good substitute for fabric softener.

Mike Harding · Guru

No.

As Kebbin mentioned; use white vinegar instead. Put about 100ml into the fabric conditioner compartment. It both cleans the washing machine and acts as a fabric softener and at $2 for 2L is much better value.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

The attached file in PDF format may open more easily .

Cheers - John

PeterD · Guru

John, what problems did you have opening it? Is your edition of Microsoft Word too old to handle ODT files?

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

I didn't have a problem opening it - hence I created a PDF with it.

However, I was responding to a post by Kebbin who was unable to open it.

Jest stickin' me bib in agen - praps when I shouldn't?

cheers - John

PeterD · Guru

Kebbin wrote:
Couldn't open your attachment Peter, but white vinegar is a good substitute for fabric softener.

Microsoft Word opens it (unless you have an old edition.) If you have an old copy of M$ Office you can download free modern office suites. Download LibreOffice x86 if you have a 32-bit operating sustem or LibreOffice 64 if you have a 64-bit operating system.

If you have an older edition of M$ Office then it will be handy to have. When you receive files created in one of the newer editions of M$ Ofice they may not open in your old Office. In those cases you go to LibreOffice and open the files in it. I have used this and OpenOffice.org when presenters have come with a PowerPoint presentation that would not open on the host clubs machine.

Also if you would like to use an office programme in another language LibreOffice comes in 115 language versions.

PeterD · Guru

rockylizard wrote:
I didn't have a problem opening it - hence I created a PDF with it.
However, I was responding to a post by Kebbin who was unable to open it.
Jest stickin' me bib in agen - praps when I shouldn't?

No offence taken. I often assist in similar cases. It is however better if people equip themselves to open Open Document files. They are starting to be used by others. The format has been adopted in many other places. See - OpenDocument adoption

Whenarewethere · Guru

It opens with Openoffice & I'm got a very old copy.

Never use fabric softener, always put thing on the clothesline, hopefully when there is a bit or wind to get rid of creases.

PeterD · Guru

Yes, OpenOffice is an alternative, as is GoogleDocs.

I was an OOo user from its inception. I jumped ship to LO when Oracle announced they were ceasing support for OOo in April 2011. I have been using LO since.

-- Edited by PeterD on Wednesday 5th of December 2018 04:29:08 PM

LLD · Guru

Now. Back to the original question. Do you need fabric softener? Maybe not but you may need water softener if you have hard-water. You need something to soften the water to get a lather. My mum used Calgon for washing clothes. She used some crystals in the bath when I was a kid and very, very dirty so the soap would actually lather and clean me. She also used Calgon in the bath if there were no water softening crystals left.

I've been places where you might as well use a rock as a bar of soap as no lather appears. Then on the other extreme, I been places where a bar of soap last a few days.

We've never used fabric softener. Always dried the babies nappies in the clothes dryer for a fluffy finish. Remember washable nappies?

-- Edited by LLD on Wednesday 5th of December 2018 05:22:15 PM

-- Edited by LLD on Wednesday 5th of December 2018 05:23:58 PM

Desert Dweller · Guru

RE:

PeterD · Guru

Fabric softener – do we really need it?

Cupie · Guru

Good info. Thanks for that.

Reinforces SWMBO's long-standing decision not to use softener.

I have read posts by some people who just use softener & not washing powder. I hope that they read this.

SWMBO puts towels into the drier for a few minutes to make them fluffy .. after trying almost everything else. Says stiff/hard towels were never a problem with top loader washers.

BTW .. The document opens with Apache Open Office - the one that I am currently using. Can't see why people spend money on Microsoft Office when there are so many excellent free equivalents available.

PeterD · Guru

Cupie wrote:
BTW .. The document opens with Apache Open Office - the one that I am currently using. Can't see why people spend money on Microsoft Office when there are so many excellent free equivalents available.

I agree. I have not purchased a Micro$oft office product this century. I can do all I require on the free suites.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

We add bi carb to wash . Reduce washing liquids by half . Add white vinegar to rinse. The hardness in towels is mainly the powder left in washing .

-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Thursday 6th of December 2018 11:18:20 AM

Whenarewethere · Guru

& or soak washing in a container overnight, you can also use about half the detergent. Wash the next day with no extra detergent. It will clean better from the soaking & the rinses will be more effective.

Rob Driver · Guru

From a professional cleaning background.

Fabric softness comes as a result of two actions.

1. The item cleaned is rinsed thoroughly of all detergent residue.

2. The PH level of the fabric is left as neutral.

It is simple really, all detergents are actually alkaline so this needs to first be rinsed thoroughly and then rinsed again usually with a mild acid solution to restore the PH. Hence the suggestion above by those who suggest white vinegar.
In the home situation as in some commercial procedures as well, many think that more soap is better where in actual fact the result is the opposite.
Any quality carpet cleaning contractor that cleans pure wool carpet will use an acid rinse as a final step to ensure the wool is soft as well as clean. If you have wool carpet and you cleaner cannot explain to you how PH works and suggests not doing an acid rinse then get another one who does if you value your carpet.

Most of our town water supplies are alkaline to start with however if DDs wife is washing his towels in Melbourne then most suburbs of that city have very good quality water as far as being closer to a neutral PH. or at least soft or low in minerals.

Any supplies with chlorine or chloramide added will have a detramental result when cleaning. Unfortunately unless we are washing in rain water or reverse osmosis water then almost all supplies are at least chlorinated.
In general use less soap rinse thoroughly and acid rinse the wash.

The mention of soaking over nite is a good one particularly if you choose to use a product like napisan or similar.
This soaking is referred in the industry as increasing the Dwell Time of the detergent.

If you or your wives or housemaids are that discerning get a quality PH meter, check the PH of your towels when damp and adjust the acid rinse as required. Get the wash as close to neutral as you can.
If the towel or any wool still feels slippery between the fingers immediately after washing and rinsing then it is not rinsed properly.

Be aware if you purchase any commercial acid rinse then it WILL need to be diluted as it is usually a concentrate.
Water in caravan parks and for that matter in any unfamiliar town will be of unknown value so play it by ear, but having said that a splash of white vinegar wont generally go astray and most varieties are only mild, I think about 5% from memory but you can correct me if you want.

My experience with the two brands of caravan washing machines that I have used is that there rinse cycle leaves a bit to be desired and leave a bit of residue as well.

The above info applies to woolen fabrics and fabrics which contain a percentage of wool. For the other synthetic clothing a wash and rinse in any domestically available rocket fuel will be fine. That is a term used by professional cleaners for a detergent high in alkaline. biggrin

The information above is subject to local laundry conditions of which water has a major affect on any result.

So in my opinion to answer PeterDs question, no you dont need fabric softener or conditioner and it is better for the environment and your skin health if we can avoid using any so called conditioners.

In closing just ask your female partner if she finds that an acid rinse in her hair makes her hair softer.

Happy next washing day. biggrin

PS.
I might say that I couldnt open the attachment in any form that was legible but I thought that Choice was only available to paid up subscribers. I opened the link by RockyLizard to read the information.

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Thursday 6th of December 2018 03:56:13 PM

Rob Driver · Guru

I should have mentioned that this basic guide above will apply to all natural fibres so include cotton as well.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Tangent topic!

Chewing gum if you get it in carpet etc, mix up some clothes washing powder to the consistency of cream and massage into chewing gum. It will go into rubbery pieces as it comes off.

the rocket · Guru

Never use it

PeterD · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
1.. In the home situation as in some commercial procedures as well, many think that more soap is better where in actual fact the result is the opposite.
2.. So in my opinion to answer PeterDs question, no you dont need fabric softener or conditioner and it is better for the environment and your skin health if we can avoid using any so called conditioners.

3.. PS.
I might say that I couldnt open the attachment in any form that was legible but I thought that Choice was only available to paid up subscribers. I opened the link by RockyLizard to read the information.

1.. This is a good point you bring up. My wife has been using half strength washing detergent measures for years. She believes that if half strength charges will not get something clean then full strength also will not do so. In those cases pre soaking is necessary. The following is a quote from a Choice article in laundry detergents.

How much laundry detergent should I use?
Depending on which laundry detergent you choose, you may be able to use half (yes, half!) the recommended dose and still get a great wash, saving yourself money and giving the environment a bit of a break. In the past we've tested top performing laundry detergents and they performed just as well on all stains at half the recommended dose, while others performed well at half the dose on several types of stains.
While we can't test every dose variation, treat the dosing scoop or cap more like a polite suggestion and experiment with your detergent you may find you can use a lot less than you think and still get a wash you are happy with.

2.. I was not asking a question. I just used the heading of the article as my subject heading. I was just presenting the article as useful information for the troops. Thanks for adding to the article.

3.. You are correct. Rocky did not link to a page in Choice. I copied the article from Choice and pasted it into my word processor (LibreOfficewWriter.) Rocky converted my file to a PDF file. What word processor were you trying to open my link with (name and version?)

Rob Driver · Guru

PeterD

Your points,

1. To support the observations of your wife, when front loader washers were introduced the recommended amount of detergent added was lowered mainly to eliminate excess foaming, then, a sales engineer which is probably a poor term using the word engineer as loosely as we can, worked out to provide a low foaming detergent to use in these new machines, wow and how that worked, new low foaming detergent that was conveniently priced so as not ever to deny any dollar from the profit ledger of the bigger soap manufacturers. We could ask if those soap manufacturers really cared, and I will leave you to decide how all that went for them.
The real answers is that we were all using too much detergent as recommended then the new technology of a front loader proved that we all did not need what was recommended.

2. Sorry, but I do understand that on many forums a title may not really represent what the poster intends. A good guess is as good as a completely off topic post. It is a great article and the info just may save a tiny part of out planet as well as a little money for consumers and you are welcome and thank you for inviting my views.

3. My attempt to open your link was on my iPad and I was asked to open it in documents on ICloud. That selection opened the link on a page but the document was unreadable, and accompanied by a couple of pages of indecipherable typing. The information on my IPad indicated that it was a ZIP file if that helps. I should say that I am on a caravan park wifi so nothing may be exactly how it should be.

To the rocket,
Many women are conscious of costs and seek results that reflect these savings so well done.

I might add that during my career in cleaning I was available to a lot of homes not selling a product but selling the correct way to clean natural fibre carpets and to the surprise of maybe some on here, generally the men would listen and take on board what I said but the women again, generally speaking, were reluctant to accept my observations as in many cases I think they considered that they knew better. My boss used to say that you may never convince a professional egg sucker how to suck eggs and I only add that as a bit of humour and not as a derogatory comment. biggrin
By using a PH meter and a small amount of distilled water I could generally easily prove that the condition of their carpet was not optimal for the nature of the fibre.
If my sales proved to be productive then I could return after our technician had performed a clean and the majority would acknowledge that the carpets were softer and actually stayed cleaner longer and with another PH test it would be proven that maintaining the correct PH actually worked.

To Whenarewethere,

Chewing gum is the scourge of the western world and worse when it is on carpet. Singapore has the right idea and they ban that rubbish.
To remove it get a white non coloured nappy and dampen it slightly, then get a steam iron and set it on low to medium steam setting, cooler is better as you do not want to flatten the knap on the carpet.
Place the nappy over the gum double folded and apply the iron and press the steam for a short burst then lift the nappy and the gum will just lift off,
or alternatively use the alcohol based gum removers and be prepared to be there for a while and possibly damage the carpet.
DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT, USE GUM REMOVER ON RUBBER BACKED CARPETS OR IF YOU CAN NOT IDENTIFY WHAT BACKING THE CARPET HAS.

Thank goodness my husbands business expanded to a level where I was needed in the office. biggrin

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Thursday 6th of December 2018 08:40:29 PM

Rob Driver · Guru

I should add a disclaimer here that if your child gets gum stuck in his or her hair then disregard all the suggestions above and use the scissors.

biggrin biggrin

PeterD · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
3. My attempt to open your link was on my iPad and I was asked to open it in documents on ICloud. That selection opened the link on a page but the document was unreadable, and accompanied by a couple of pages of indecipherable typing. The information on my IPad indicated that it was a ZIP file if that helps. I should say that I am on a caravan park wifi so nothing may be exactly how it should be.

You are correct when you mention ZIP. The file format contains ZIPed XML formatting. I was not thinking of iOS when I posted the file. Loookslike I may have to save in PDF in future. If you can use Google Docs in yout iPad you can open Open Office XML files with it. I have just gone through List of software that supports Office Open XML and noted that Apple products does not handle it very well.

Rob Driver · Guru

Good morning PeterD

When we had our transport business we had Apple Mac computers and our computer man set up LibreOffice on them as he said, for convenience.
I have never bothered on my personal IPad but I can see now why he did it.
I could use google docs but I dont like much from Google.
I think it is just a personal thing and I am probably being silly seeing we have gmail and use google for searching most of the time.

How much laundry detergent should I use?