Older drivers again in spotlight

rockylizard · Guru

Older drivers again in spotlight

Whenarewethere · Guru

Road infrastructure is way behind the volume of cars using the roads. It use to be de-stressing to drive!

Now we have a massive new road and together with a failed new hospital.

-- Edited by Whenarewethere on Monday 3rd of December 2018 11:00:50 AM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Way more on roads . With way less deaths too !! If anything ?? Muc more distance travelled just for work . Know many who travel up to, over an hour each way to work !! On a good traffic day .,

Whenarewethere · Guru

But the heath issues have simply moved from one government department to another. We now have far more people with a long list of chronic health problems from sitting too long. Now one died slowly on the "side" of the road!

Whenarewethere · Guru

Other half traveled 19 km door to door in Sydney on public transport 2 hours including 17 minutes walking each way. So 4 hours a day added to working day.

Dickodownunder · Guru

Apart from some of the reasons in the link in my opinion many circumstances may be a cause.

As mentioned above the road infrastructure per the number of vehicles was actually far better than it is today. It used to be pleasant to go for a Sunday drive now it is nothing less than a nightmare in most areas.

The design of some aspects of a motor vehicle have a lot to do with distraction to drivers. Switches and controls are at time small and difficult to access and this is particularly so if the control is one that is not often used. I have a reasonably late model Ford Falcon ute and to find the control to turn the radio off is a nightmare.
It is a lot safer to pull over rather than try to negotiate the radio controls while on the move.

Impatience and lack of common courtesy is another problem. We only have to view the nightly news on any day to see a disgusting example of road rage.
This brings me to another thing and that this impatience is not because some poor fellow is late for work but it is more because he is under the influence of ICE or some other drug or is a STONER and just doesn't know what he is doing due to his substance use affecting his brain thoughts. The actions by these motorists are at best extremely unpredictable and are difficult for the elderly to cope with such erratic behaviour.

Unfortunately us old fellas grew up and drove for many years in an era when things were simpler and everything with driving generally happened a lot slower and probably the worse affect experienced by us may be driving after having a couple of beers after work or avoiding the guy that did. ( I am not supporting drink driving as things can and do go horribly wrong with this action as well).
Today we are slower generally speaking and with the current changing conditions is probably a lot to do with the older generation being grouped into the motorists referred to in Rockys link.

We just need to be aware, concentrate, try not to allow distractions and be prepared for the unpredictable.

-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Monday 3rd of December 2018 12:20:46 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

Car window size has shrunk (simple passive technology), parents are permanently squashing their two year olds reversing out of their driveway because they can't see them. Should actually be less of a task today as parents have far fewer children to deal than in the past.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Dickodownunder wrote:
It used to be pleasant to go for a Sunday drive now it is nothing less than a nightmare in most areas.

It is a lot safer to pull over rather than try to negotiate the radio controls while on the move.

Now it is gridlock around the big green store.

If you didn't quite hit the radio knob or button you still know exactly the position you had to move your finger to. Everything now is controlled by large touch screens with no reference point. Accident waiting to happen.

Mike Harding · Guru

I can't be bothered to read yet another report which proves exactly what the authors set out to prove in regard to their prejudice but I will say that I seem to recall parents with two or three screaming kids in the back seat get pretty distracted too - perhaps it's time to ban children under 12 in vehicles?

I'm over all this.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Good to know that older drivers talk or sing to themselves far less than young drivers 8 vs 30 events!

rockylizard · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
Good to know that older drivers talk or sing to themselves far less than young drivers 8 vs 30 events!

Gday...

The obviously didn't include me in their survey then

Cheers - John

Tony Bev · Guru

rockylizard wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
Good to know that older drivers talk or sing to themselves far less than young drivers 8 vs 30 events!
Gday...
The obviously didn't include me in their survey then
Cheers - John

Or me

I sing to myself on a journey because

smile smile If I stopped to sing to someone else, they would probably throw an old boot at me smile smile

Tony Bev · Guru

My opinion is that my era (baby boomer), are probably safer drivers now, than when we were younger, for the following reasons

We started to drive, in the era before either speed signs and/or traffic patrol men
We saw some of our friends die and/or become cripples, and learned just a little from that experience
We have become responsible enough to realise, that our reaction time, is less than when we were younger
We therefore try harder to drive to our slower reaction conditions, as well as road conditions
We have become responsible enough to realise that even in the smallest vehicle accident, if we are injured it may be a long process for the body to heal
We therefore try our best to avoid any injuries
As travellers, we are mature enough to know that any accident/incident away from home base, will be an inconvenience we would rather do without
We therefore find this as another reason, to try to avoid any accident/incident

I shall give an example

I never tailgate anyone
On the free way I always leave space in front of my vehicle
I have had drivers in cars, pull in front of my motor home, and then slam on the brakes, when they see the traffic ahead slowing
They do not want to drive into the back of the vehicle in front, but they do not realise that I can not stop as fast as them, through age, and weight of vehicle

My only answer is that I immediately slow further, when a car overtakes me, until I have a comfortable space in front of me

Landfall · Guru

This flies in the face of data collected by the Tasmanian government that discontinued "old age driving tests" due to the reduced number of accidents in the age bracket of 75 and over.

That's right, here in Tasmania the elderly are not singled out as idiots that should not be behind the wheel, but have been recognised as being a safer driver than the new provisional drivers and those up to the age of 30.

It all comes down to "maths" if you know what you are doing you can make figures match any argument you wish to promote, politicians are experts at this, for their own agenda.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Victorian 2015 data shoes that licensing rates for under 25 has dropped from 77% to 66% since 2001.

No surprise that oldies have increased representation. There are increasing numbers of us!

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-06/young-people-less-likely-to-get-a-driver27s-license/6002600

Cupie · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
I can't be bothered to read yet another report which proves exactly what the authors set out to prove in regard to their prejudice but I will say that I seem to recall parents with two or three screaming kids in the back seat get pretty distracted too - perhaps it's time to ban children under 12 in vehicles?
I'm over all this.

I'm with you on this one Mike.

cheers .. G

Why is it my Daughter says ... why are you going so slowly Dad (& I'm just under the speed limit) .. as another tradie whizzes by chatting on his mobile?

-- Edited by Cupie on Monday 3rd of December 2018 08:15:17 PM

Dickodownunder · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
I can't be bothered to read yet another report which proves exactly what the authors set out to prove in regard to their prejudice but I will say that I seem to recall parents with two or three screaming kids in the back seat get pretty distracted too - perhaps it's time to ban children under 12 in vehicles?
I'm over all this.

Actually Mike Harding, I agree with you with reference to the report in the link and many of us are actually over this ( your words) but if we are all considerate about other fellow travellers and retirees being blamed for the downfall of modern society then before you bolt off into the unknown on your new venture I hope you have considered that without our ( collective) input our society as we know it would not be what it is. After all, we, the boomers are to blame for the massive cost to health system, the cost to the welfare system and I could go on.

Isn't it strange that very few cast the blame on us, collectively for how GOOD our country is today

Even on the local Sunday drive we had the younger kids and probably me, wingeing in the back seat but, it was only on the Sunday drive. We never had to listen to, well at least my Dad, screaming abuse at another motorist and in those days very few mums actually drove a car.

Rockys link was basically printed to create discontent from us "baby boomers" and it was not Rockys intent to create this discontent but if we all read and note what was said in the link then we may all, or at least, many of us may need to consider this "gem" which comes from the text in the link.

From the link

While they are far from the only generation to be distracted behind the wheel, the paper found they are the most likely to be seriously injured as a result of losing concentration.

This increase in motor vehicle use means that the baby boomer generation will be at greater risk of crash involvement and crash-related trauma than previous cohorts, the report states.

Well some of might say "no s*it shirlock" with a "H"

"Previous cohorts", really, if the author meant the generation before baby boomers, then they are of such a low number today that the figures would not represent an accurate assessment, and those "cohorts" with full respect, actually engineered the base for the great conditions that we have all enjoyed throughout our (collective) lives including driving with respect and consideration for others.

Many of these "previous cohorts" actually taught us how to drive in the day or at the least, taught our parents, when we weren't subject to all the distractions as mentioned above.

The previous "cohorts"( in my opinion a most offensive description) and if I may use the sample of my own Grandfather actually was a Policeman in the highlands of NSW and his only transport was a horse until he retired in the '50's which at that time he got his licence to drive a "horseless carriage"

Mike Harding,

Children should never be banned but the actions that create those kids to be in a stressed state should be looked at a lot more closely (today) than some useless observation from yet another author who is actually getting paid by dribbling crap ( my words) about a generation or two which he knows obviously nothing about.

Yes Mike there are many of us that are "over this" but the problems we have are not a result of the lack of effort (collectively) from our, to at the very least my (collective) generation.

-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Monday 3rd of December 2018 09:55:38 PM

-- Edited by Dickodownunder on Monday 3rd of December 2018 09:57:16 PM

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Lucky for babyboomers modern technology is making up for our shortcomings in order to keep us safe on the road. I have radar that puts on the brakes and bips if I get too close to someone in front or wander out of my lane, mirrors that light up if someone gets in my blindspot, reversing camera, parking sensors all round to beep at me, alarms that go off if a vehicle is crossing my rear, controls on the steering wheel for the entertainment/ phone,cruise control and trip computers to play with, Sat nav that continually informs me that I'm in a place where street by street directions are not possible and a thousand other bells,whistles and warning lights which after 6 months I still haven't even worked out. When I hook up the van I can also add the vans rear view camera monitor, battery monitor etc.etc. - do you think it's distracting you bet it is confuse

Mine is not a top of the range model it's only the mid range version, we also just bought the base model Eclipse Cross for my wife and it also has most of the same safety feature that I listed.

Cheers

BB

-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Tuesday 4th of December 2018 08:00:53 AM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Who to blame with driverless cars ?? Watching the speedo instead of watching and concentrating on driving . After all speed causes accidents..

SouthernComfort · Guru

yawn Yet another ill informed report to suit the ageism agenda. Put out by ???? a bunch of boffins existing in a vacuum. Half of it states the mind numbing obvious whilst managing to fail miserably on perspective and balance by omitting the much greater causes of distraction and general hazard on our roads. Ya' know, little things like: drunks, druggies, P plater stupidity, reckless tradies in utes, mobile phone use/texting, shockingly arrogant driver attitude, poorly located road signage, roadside advertising etc. etc. plus the many in-car gadget distractions mentioned by others. No, these aren't the real causes of distraction, or the most distracted drivers, we are the ones to blame - it suits the agenda.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Most of the driverless cars you have to be ready to take over just in case the car can't cope. If we are driving less we are going to have even less experience at driving.

Pilots in general land aeroplanes to keep up their hours even though the plane can land perfectly well by itself.

These days I don't do a lot of driving unless travelling. I was a sales rep in a previous life & it is plainly clear to me I would not want to reduce my behind the wheel skills just in case I need to take control of the car.

I'm not that old but I can tell that my night driving skills is suffering the most. Simply by doing very little of it.

If I have to take control of an automated car at night in the future I would be concerned.

Another issue we have with satelisate is that by the mid 2020s, due to the exponential increase in space junk we my have no satellites. So we will have to learn to read the UBD again!

Whenarewethere · Guru

Not only poorly located signage, but too often too much of it.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

I am guessing that very few (if any) actually clicked on the link within the news article to the actual report on the survey.

It is a 90 page document, the Journal of the Australasian College of Road Safety, within which the survey was published - from Pages 18 to 27.

It is at this link - http://acrs.org.au/wp-content/uploads/JACRS-NOV2018-Vol294.pdf

I have extracted some info (and one table of information) from that lengthy report which shows just how cursory the news article was regarding this extensive survey.

Older drivers and naturalistic driving research

Professor Lynn Meuleners,
Curtin-Monash Accident Research Centre (C-MARC), Curtin University, Perth, Australia

Professor Judith Charlton,
Monash University Accident Research Centre, Monash University, Victoria

Demographic changes in the Australian population are leading to an increase in the number of older drivers on our roads. By 2030, approximately 23% of the Australian population will be aged 65 years and older.

Research indicates that the risk of fatal and serious injury crashes increases substantially with old age.3-5 This increased risk has commonly been attributed to frailty and associated injury susceptibility, and also to age-related declines in cognition, vision and psychomotor abilities and increased medical conditions and medication use.8,9 As people age, sensory, motor and cognitive declines as well as medical conditions common in older adults such as cataract and dementia, can affect the ability to safely operate a motor vehicle. For example, older drivers have been found to have more difficulty with merging, negotiating complex intersections, hazard perception, gap selection and slower reaction times than younger drivers.

For people over 65 years, driving is the most common form of transport and is strongly associated with older adults independence and social inclusion. In contrast, driving cessation has been linked to poorer health, depression loneliness, reduced mobility and a higher risk of institutionalisation. This highlights the importance of understanding driving performance and driving patterns of older adults so that individual autonomy and mobility can be preserved for as long as possible, while ensuring safety on the roads.

This case study examined patterns of secondary task engagement during everyday trips among 48 older (60+), middle-aged (43-49 years) and young (22-31 years) drivers. The findings suggest that Australian older drivers do engage in a large number of secondary tasks when driving; however, there is evidence that they self-regulate the type and timing of these tasks.

Conclusions

Overall, far from being a younger driver problem, this review and the ANDS case study demonstrates that older drivers do indeed engage in distracted driving and that this negatively impacts their driving performance, more so than younger drivers. However, there is evidence that older drivers regulate the type and timing of the tasks they engage in. More specifically, older drivers engage in secondary tasks for shorter durations than younger drivers, engage more often when surrounding traffic is light or not present, and they avoid tasks that have been found in previous research to be high-risk, such as holding or manipulating a mobile phone. Distraction countermeasures should capitalise on the natural self-regulatory tendencies of older drivers by increasing their awareness of dangers of certain secondary tasks and the driving conditions under which they should avoid engagement.

The survey, Original Road Safety Research, Distraction and Older Drivers: An Emerging Problem? was exhaustive and contains considerable information from a wide multitude of sources.

Given the magnitude of the survey and the cursory coverage by the news article it is little wonder that 'mature' readers of the news article would react as they have - too little information to form an opinion.

Praps, bookmark the link top the Journal and spend a lazy, wet afternoon reading it.

Cheers - John

Whenarewethere · Guru

It is the typical study these days. It gives all the appearances of too little actual work & too higher % of referencing to other material. Which I personally believe has been tacked on the end for the most part to fatten up the report.

I did read the report & my personal conclusion it that the older generation of drivers I see on the roads are a different species to the ones they used.

To back up my opinion, is that there is a bunch of young idiots driving the Gibb River Road compared to the older generation driving to the road conditions & respect to what their car can manage.

Too many young people dying in the outback, just this year alone, simply because of lack of water, reserve of 500 ml in one case! About as basic as you can get. No water & you are dead. But probably it takes age & wisdom to have some inkling to work that one out!

Dickodownunder · Guru

To be fair John, I clicked on the link and scrolled through the first few pages which revealed virtually unrelated information.

The actual report did not even begin to start until page 11.

If you wanted comments on that article maybe then the correct thing may have been to provide that link in your opening post.

I can probably speak for most who commented and your post to me, at least, just appeared to be yet another Ill informed report by a journalist with a misguided agenda.

No wonder you have been quiet on here....you have been reading that 90 page report. biggrin biggrin

Desert Dweller · Guru

Two weeks ago a lady was hanging her washing out in the back yard of a unit around the corner from us. An elderly driver in the adjoining unit hit the accelerator pedal instead of the brake, plowed through a fence and pinned her against a brick wall, killing her. It seems to be a common mistake that older drivers make.

rockylizard · Guru

Dickodownunder wrote:
To be fair John, I clicked on the link and scrolled through the first few pages which revealed virtually unrelated information.

The actual report did not even begin to start until page 11.

If you wanted comments on that article maybe then the correct thing may have been to provide that link in your opening post.

I can probably speak for most who commented and your post to me, at least, just appeared to be yet another Ill informed report by a journalist with a misguided agenda.

No wonder you have been quiet on here....you have been reading that 90 page report.

Gday...

Good to see some have read the report. The "actual report" begins on page 18 not page 11.

Contrary to your frequent comment to my posts, I did not want, nor solicit comments - I don't post items etc on the forum to prompt, generate, or solicit comment - I post them for what they simply are - information of what I hope (often mistakenly) would be of interest to members of the forum.

It is just that the comments generated from the news article prompted me to elaborate on the depth of the survey, that was so poorly covered by the article. You are correct ... it was just another ill-informed report by a journalist with a misguided agenda who 'selected' a small portion of what was a detailed survey.

It definitely provides considerable depth and further information regarding drivers - including 'mature' drivers - that I found interesting when one spends some time dissecting the entirety of the report.

yeah, that report sucks up a fair bit of time. Particularly as one needs to re-read quite a bit of it due to the way it is written and the data as presented.

Cheers - stay well and travel safely - John

SouthernComfort · Guru

Yes I read it. No-one would say that NO older people get distracted, or never do the wrong thing, but the article obsesses about the older age group who are clearly not the worst category of offenders. It isn't "far from being a younger driver problem" as quoted in the study, in fact all age groups are integral to the problem and the younger age group to a greater extent than older. And that's before you add in the all-too-common reckless attitude among younger drivers. The article just singles out the older group as per popular agenda. Balance!

-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Tuesday 4th of December 2018 12:21:52 PM

-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Tuesday 4th of December 2018 12:42:59 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

Desert Dweller wrote:
Two weeks ago a lady was hanging her washing out in the back yard of a unit around the corner from us. An elderly driver in the adjoining unit hit the accelerator pedal instead of the brake, plowed through a fence and pinned her against a brick wall, killing her. It seems to be a common mistake that older drivers make.

I lent our garage to our elderly neightbour while we were away last year & she put her car through the back wall & wrote it off, all the bricks fell on the car & it was flattened & windscreen collapsed into the car. This year I lent the garage to the same person. I was not worried, accidents happen!

Cupie · Guru

SouthernComfort wrote:
Yes I read it. No-one would say that NO older people get distracted, or never do the wrong thing, but the article obsesses about the older age group who are clearly not the worst category of offenders. It isn't "far from being a younger driver problem" as quoted in the study, in fact all age groups are integral to the problem and the younger age group to a greater extent than older. And that's before you add in the all-too-common reckless attitude among younger drivers. The article just singles out the older group as per popular agenda. Balance!

-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Tuesday 4th of December 2018 12:21:52 PM

-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Tuesday 4th of December 2018 12:42:59 PM

All the discussion on this topic prompted me to zip thru all the preamble including the report of an award to a Christine Thiel . Not our Crusin' Granny Christine though ... Her awards are related to Heavy Pilot Safety/Awareness.

The focus on distraction caught my attention as I skimmed through the actual academic focused report. I have in recent years, had a few near misses due to being distracted by stuff outside the vehicle, so that aspect was of interest to me.

So I actually got to the "Conclusion" (I am used to Executive Summaries of Business reports that enable you to quickly get the gist of a report & then go to the body of it if you need more info or to seek evidence. A far better way to present information IMHO).

........................................................................................

CONCLUSIONS

Overall, far from being a younger driver problem, this review and the ANDS case study demonstrates that older drivers do indeed engage in distracted driving and that this negatively impacts their driving performance, more so than younger drivers.

However, there is evidence that older drivers regulate the type and timing of the tasks they engage in.

More specifically, older drivers engage in secondary tasks for shorter durations than younger drivers, engage more often when surrounding traffic is light or not present, and they avoid tasks that have been found in previous research to be high-risk, such as holding or manipulating a mobile phone.

Distraction countermeasures should capitalise on the natural self-regulatory tendencies of older drivers by increasing their awareness of dangers of certain secondary tasks and the driving conditions under which they should avoid engagement.

.....................................................................

So as I read it, not such a damming indictment of older drivers after all. Just seemed to say that older drivers did it too (got distracted that is) but had strategies to reduce its impact. Perhaps!

I can understand the way the Journalist might have misrepresented the findings of such a report (Produced I think by academics for academics). But what's new about that in this era of overworked Journos seeking an instant attention-grabbing headline.