Well done John,

I think in the real world you could add the weight of a WDH to most of the vehicles on the spreadsheet but having said that I think I read that you should not use one on the Landrover Discovery.

You certainly have easily displayed more accurate weight figures than what many of the manufacturers are prepared to do.

Those figures also offer any purchaser to assess wether a GVM and or GCM upgrade may be advantageous for their personal situation.

Could the topic become a sticky?

As on one of your previous posts the question should be asked: Why do people need to get anywhere near the maximum weights of their rigs.

We left Nyah Recreation Reserve ''donation camp'' VIC this morning after staying for two nights.

Next to us for two nights was a Colorado (3500kg towing capacity) towing an Adria 16ft caravan that wouldn't have weighed more than 1500kg.

They were heading up the Centre to Darwin & fully enjoying themselves . Who needs to tow three tons of groaning metal around?

Hi Rocky
Being a simple farmer and occasional truck driver I find the car and caravan weight situation confusing as it seems do just about everyone else if these were trucks it would be simple

On a truck um this is the big semis I am talking about , with mass managment.

On the front steer axel you are allowed 6 tonne
On the tandam drive axel you are allowed 17 tonne
On the trailer tri axel you are allowed 22.5
Total 45.5 tonne
Just as a side note here.
Single axel on airbag Suspention is allowed 10 tonne notice the reduction of capacity on a bogi and tri . ( for safety reasons )

Simple
You can not have an overloaded axel or axel group even if your total is still under 45.5 or you WILL get a fine if caught .

If car and Ute makers would simply and clearly display these figures it would make the explanation so much simpler the only thing that should be different on a car caravan combination is the max tow ball load that can be applied to a tow bar, and if applicable any reduction of the loading capacity of the car, as some do reduce the car carrying capacity by more than the actual down load on the tow bar .
I think it would be a fair bet that very few caravaners would know what their max axels weights are, let alone what they actually are when loaded up on the road .

The issue of the loading of the van to stop the tail wagging the dog is a seperate issue I will not go into here .

Maybe a bit optimistic allowing only 150KG for 2 passengers (driver 75kg + passenger 75kg) - I'm just a typical bloke and I'm 100kg, and when I'm wandering around parks talking to other caravanners, MANY are larger and heavier than me. Also, my better half is 110kg, and I've seen many others around camp that are larger still. I allow 210kg in MY load calculations for my rig.

Maybe 200kg or 225kg would be a more realistic weight - then see what that does to your remaining payload !

 

Brian

rockylizard wrote:

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Gday...

I agree wholeheartedly, Brian. Me and me brudder weigh more than 150Kg together as well.

If one decides to provide "personal circumstances' to the figures in the chart and re-calculate ... makes ya wonder how so many on the road can be anywhere  near legal.

......... as I say ..... who's at fault ?? 

Cheers - John

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 The driver always or chain of responsibility, the management, the wife.

John,

On your spread sheet it would of been good (in my opinion only) to see the cars gross combination ratings there.

Rating is the maximum weight your gross weight can be.

Weight is the weight at the weighbridge

Gross weight of the tow vehicle plus the trailer gross weight equals the gross combination weight.

Interesting my pre 3 500 towing capacity dual cab has similar gross combination rating to the newer ones. Odd that but very practical.

I am very pleased with my weights and have weighed our combination serval times now, first time I was about 20kgs over on the towball but since have moved things about coming up with acceptable weights, interesting the 6 times I have weighed the combination the weights are always slightly different. The present gross weight is around 5 500kgs, 500kgs under the combination gross weight

rockylizard wrote:

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Radar wrote:

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John,

On your spread sheet it would of been good (in my opinion only) to see the cars gross combination ratings there.

Rating is the maximum weight your gross weight can be.

Weight is the weight at the weighbridge

Gross weight of the tow vehicle plus the trailer gross weight equals the gross combination weight.

Interesting my pre 3 500 towing capacity dual cab has similar gross combination rating to the newer ones. Odd that but very practical.

I am very pleased with my weights and have weighed our combination serval times now, first time I was about 20kgs over on the towball but since have moved things about coming up with acceptable weights, interesting the 6 times I have weighed the combination the weights are always slightly different. The present gross weight is around 5 500kgs, 500kgs under the combination gross weight

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Gday...

I understand what you mean. However, from memory (and it has been a long time since this morning ) none of those I have listed would have come near their GCM because the exercise has assumed they were only towing 80% of the maximum towing rating.

Indeed, in that exercise, if any of the vehicles were loaded to their GVM, towing the van at 80% of the maximum towing rating, they would be heavier than the van.

It also assumes that each vehicle would only have 10% of that 80% of maximum towing rating as a ball weight - tow ball weights will, and do, vary from 10%.

The exercise is based on assumptions that I am confident does not represent even perhaps the 'typical' caravanner's use of the vehicle.

I am sure that there would be considerable variation in towball weight for any van, even if all van's were as stated in the exercise. Everyone loads their van differently.

There would be variation in the weight of any two passengers, and the weight allocated to "bullbar" which is for accessories etc may not be applicable to many owners as they do not have bullbars etc ... but there may be other items added to the vehicle.

I was not, and am not, trying in any way to provide conclusive information/advice to the owner of any particular vehicle - simply to provide a 'snapshot' display on how manufacturers, dealers and salesmen/women of both van's and vehicles don't really tell the actual story ... a 'snapshot' on how difficult it is to stay under GVM in many cases.

Interestingly, it would appear on the numbers in that 'snapshot' that towing a van that is only 80% of the maximum towing rating would be easier to stay within GVM if done with one of the available utes or their 'SUV' alternatives. 

I doubt it would be possible to provide a 'snapshot' of a collection of vehicles that could come close to each owner's use and packing of their vehicle.

Cheers - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Monday 21st of May 2018 11:12:37 PM

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 Sorry John, in hindsigh perhaps I needed to go back and reread your leading post before I posted my posts (thats a mouth full).

Your scenarios are good starting point.

Will people heed to the advice or go along ignoring the real world around them.

Have a good day.

 

Desert Dweller wrote:

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Judging by the rated weighs & sizes of camping chairs for sale these days (150kg) plus our own observations of the eating/drinking habits along with a total lack of exercise of a large proportion of retirees, 75kg seems over optimistic for the average driver/passenger weight.    We've heard a few tugs groan, as well as seeing a noticeable drop in suspension height as their owners hop aboard.

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Just can't help yourself can you, with your negative put downs of people

And for your info I would just make it under 75 kgs

Hey rockylizard,

thanks some good info for someone looking at buying a new tug. When looking at tugs it took me 6 months to research all the info that led to purchasing D-Maxine.

Anyone should be able to look at your chart and insert their own personal data into it, or do their own homework! For the D-Max I just did mine and checked it on the weighbridge. Tug with Bullbar, snorkel, full tank of fuel, and me(6ft 3inch 100kg)= 2280kg. Theoretical loaded van 3500kgs =5780kg gives me a payload in the tug of 170kg before the max GCM of 5950kg. Tow ball weight at 10% =350kg. I would be over by 180kg.

So my D-Maxine cannot tow a 3500kg den in my case. But would I? Not on your life. 

 

 

-- Edited by STRETCH ARMSTRONG on Tuesday 22nd of May 2018 01:17:13 PM

Whilst many of us are somewhat more challenged weight wise that the use 75kgs, this is a universally used average number for a persons weight. Common particularly to aviation where peoples exact weights are unknown