rockylizard wrote:

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SouthernComfort wrote:

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Dickodownunder wrote:

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Typing while you were posting RockyLizard,

Yes RPL would cover that situation..

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Unfortunately applying for RPL wouldn't stand up without documentation. In environments where RPL is applied towards accreditation, there are rigorous requirements to provide documented evidence of experience. Even long term van ownership doesn't indicated how often you've towed it.

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Gday...

Bit like pulling teeth sometimes

RPL wouldn't, and shouldn't, apply to "long term van ownership" as you suggest ... I was indicating that the attaining, holding, and demonstrated use of a "heavy vehicle endorsement" would/could perhaps be used/considered through RPL to offset the need for the holder of heavy vehicle endorsements to attain a "mandatory caravan/trailer" licence.

Although, holding a LR, MR, HR etc does not, in itself, indicate the ability to handle an "articulated" rig such as a loaded Landcruiser and 24ft, 3,000Kg van. However, a HC, MC might be able to get RPL.

As can be seen, a special licence for caravan towing is fraught with conundrums.  

Obviously, any thinking, logical person realises that there is considerable 'knowledge' required to load and tow caravans. However, I don't think a licence is the answer. Struth, even 'training' someone to choose the right vehicle to tow "X" caravan - weight ratings etc etc.

It is very logical that a person needs to have 'experience' to tow ... but I doubt a licence is the answer ... rather there is a strong case for education.

Having said that, one can be subjected to all the education in the world but without the ability to translate that education into experience it won't do anything either. Just look how competent many P-platers are. 

Also, whether a 'special licence test' or mandated education is considered, try devising the course that will train a driver to meet all the conditions required. Despite the excellence of a Tow-Ed course, it is really just scratching the surface of the quantum leap required to inject "years of experience" into the 'new' vanner. And when you have devised such a course, determine the cost of provision ...

Jest sayin' 

Cheers - John

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If anything was required at all, then mandatory van set-up and towing courses for all 'vanners would be the only valid route IMO. Those with genuine experience will just find it easier to complete than those without. Then a licence or permit of some kind would obviously have to be issued to verify a "pass". There is no way to validate experience for the purpose of taking a short cut with RPL. As far as RPL possibly applying to HV licences, it would still require demonstrated HV experience (as you rightly say), not just a licence obtained 20yrs ago that's potentially had little use since the test (I only say that since I know of 2 people in that category - HV licence held, but not used for years.

WOW!! what a can of worms

Some good words, some great words, and also some not so good ones.
I have been driving for close to 30yrs, (and yes I know there are more experienced people out there), I have a car and bike licence. Over the years I have also driven semis and rigids, (even if very limited and on private property), and have been towing vans for the past 14yrs.
Our first van was only 14.5ft, the second 17.5ft, the third 16ft and current 21.5ft. My husband is the main driver, but we will change so he has a good break. I know my limits and will not tow this van through small or busy roads. If I don't feel comfortable driving, I pull over and he takes over. I have no need to reverse, either in a straight line or around a bend. I know it's width so I can pull up next to a kerb. I can feel it's weight so I know when to start braking. So why do I, as a responsible driver, need to hand over money I don't have to a govt body for something I do not really need.
A free course (via a motoring club of sorts) would be good thing, but then would that be suitable for someone in my situation - only to complete part of a course.
There are so many issues to take into consideration, but i think the govt really needs to make sure the road surfaces, bends, corners, bridges an overtaking lanes (just to mention a few) are of good condition. These things are not generally mentioned when incidents occur.

I have chatted to others who have just retired and "got the retirement deal", have gone from a std size 4 door sedan to a large 4x4 towing anything from 21 to 23ft - these are some of the dangerous ones.
Not forgetting the driver who insists on driving at 75kmh and thinks "if it's safe for me, it's safe for everybody" and refuses to pull off the side of the road to let others pass, (cars included). Then it's the twits that try to pass too many vehicles, or those that sit too close so that cars cannot hop past one van at a time.
Also the tourists, local, interstate, but mainly overseas, who decide on a motorhome holiday, and never driven one before, that's a real danger. But the govt wont do anything that will affect the international tourist.

But not just on driving capabilities.....
During our trip we also noticed around 25% of vanners we saw did not have suitable towing mirrors, if any at all. Also noting that not all vanners have radios, and several times we tried to call up a van (showing ch40 stickers), but no response, switched on just not listening? I have heard discussions that people turn them off as they can be distracting - why have one!!
Somebody getting distracted by a radio - not my idea of a competent driver

I don't think there is a driver out there that does not have an opinion about this, a lot with merit, some without, some great points and some not so practical.
The discussion could go on forever and ever ..........
How big can a can be.....

sandgrooper1 wrote:

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Howdy,

I guess I can see both sides of this discussion, my thoughts probably involve my wife and the role she may or may not play in our travels.

My wife on occasion does take the wheel of our rig and in fact does a good job and I feel safe with her driving, but has never reversed, her theory being that if needed there would be help on hand if required. Not ideal I know, but probably true in most occasions.
She really does not want to drive at all preferring to leave it to me. My reasoning is for her to drive to keep her hand in so to speak should something untoward happen to me as the principle driver and thus be unable to drive. She has said she has enough confidence to get the rig home should the need arise which gives me some comfort as well if I am honest.
I suppose my point is that if this licencing issue with a test came up I doubt she would be interested and just accept she couldn't drive. However, from my point of view I like to have that potential assistance in reserve should the need arise for whatever reasons.

I had not read any posts from this point of view but thought I would add it for further comment.

Cheers AL

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You raise a very valid point AL. Such a regulation may well deter many "other halves" from bothering, and like yours, my wife is very reluctant to tow. At least now she can leap behind the wheel legally to get to a safe place should I suddenly become incapacitated, but she'd shy away from the thought of doing a licence test. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks our partners "should" do, the simple fact is that many are not that way inclined and wouldn't be up for it.

 

This is something that I have thought about, as a female who tows the van, a lot. Up until almost 3 years ago we only towed campertrailers and tgen moved up to the van. Neither of us have done a towing course and we probably should have. I tow occasionally with my other half doing most of the driving as I am a better navigator. When I do tow I am happy to take advice from my husband. At no stage do I even remotely think I am experienced and in fact wish I could put "L" plates on the back of the van. When do I think I will be experienced......probably never and no licence will make me experienced. It is time and experience and more experience that is needed, not licensing.

On our current trip through WA we have had reason to tackle a couple of caravan drivers over their poor driving, both told us that they were well experienced. The first ones response after nearly wiping the front of our vehicle out as they flew passed us (we were sitting on 95 kms approx) was that he drives these roads all the time.......does that make him a good driver? Definitely not by where and the way he passed us.

The second incident was on a very hilly, narrow and twisty road where there were more double lines on the road than there wasn't. We weren't towing but on this 80+km long road we came across a cycling race. We took our due care passing where we could but soon had a caravanner on our tail. He proceeded to pass the cyclists unsafely over lines and on blind corners. We pulled over and let him go and did not see him again until we pulled up in town. We reported him to officials and when he was approached his response was......we have to be somewhere. Is that any excuse to possibly injure or kill one or more of these cyclists.

So for us impatience and the need to get somewhere asap is a huge issue amongst many driver, caravanners or not. Sorry for the long post but after 6 months on the road and still travelling we have seen a lot of bad driving by vanners and non vanners

leajoy wrote:

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This is something that I have thought about, as a female who tows the van, a lot. Up until almost 3 years ago we only towed campertrailers and tgen moved up to the van. Neither of us have done a towing course and we probably should have. I tow occasionally with my other half doing most of the driving as I am a better navigator. When I do tow I am happy to take advice from my husband. At no stage do I even remotely think I am experienced and in fact wish I could put "L" plates on the back of the van. When do I think I will be experienced......probably never and no licence will make me experienced. It is time and experience and more experience that is needed, not licensing.

On our current trip through WA we have had reason to tackle a couple of caravan drivers over their poor driving, both told us that they were well experienced. The first ones response after nearly wiping the front of our vehicle out as they flew passed us (we were sitting on 95 kms approx) was that he drives these roads all the time.......does that make him a good driver? Definitely not by where and the way he passed us.

The second incident was on a very hilly, narrow and twisty road where there were more double lines on the road than there wasn't. We weren't towing but on this 80+km long road we came across a cycling race. We took our due care passing where we could but soon had a caravanner on our tail. He proceeded to pass the cyclists unsafely over lines and on blind corners. We pulled over and let him go and did not see him again until we pulled up in town. We reported him to officials and when he was approached his response was......we have to be somewhere. Is that any excuse to possibly injure or kill one or more of these cyclists.

So for us impatience and the need to get somewhere asap is a huge issue amongst many driver, caravanners or not. Sorry for the long post but after 6 months on the road and still travelling we have seen a lot of bad driving by vanners and non vanners

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Spot on leajoy. A I said in another thread on this topic, skills can be taught but common sense and attitude can't, they are intrinsic characteristics. Following a training course, competency is only attained with experience not the granting of a licence.